Your Military Experience

Hi!

DH is in the AF through the HPSP, and I'm anxious about our military years! I'm just curious to hear from some of you regarding your feelings on being in. Are you glad your spouse chose to become military? What are your feelings regarding living on-post versus off-post? Have you dealt with a deployment yet, and how was it? Does your spouse deploy often? Do you have to be conscious of with whom you socialize (i.e. enlisted vs officer), etc?

Also, those of you whose spouses are doing/have done military residencies, did he/she choose to do one, or weren't you able to get a civilian deferment? How do you fell about a military residency vs a civilian one?

Thanks for any feedback!

Welcome to the site...sorry this isn't in the intro section!
My wife and I made the decision to do the FAP, different way to get funding from the military. There is a terribly long convoluted story that goes along with why we did it that way, but I won't bore you with it at this time. It comes down to the fact that we got extra money through residency, but we got the added bonus of getting to pay for all of medical school ourselves. So, we have a large amount of med school loans- that SHOULD have been paid with the extra money...but life happens, and now we have two extra kids.
Now, to answer the questions....

Are you glad your DH chose to become military?

If we were at that crossroad again, the decision would be different. Meaning, we would take a job in the real-world. DW felt that she needed to prove something to her father (again, another long story...much like therapy) so she signed up. I am very proud of her, and all the men and women that we have gotten to know. They put their lives on hold everyday so that we can have the luxury to complain about how hard/bad/much it sucks that they are "owned" by something that we can't control.
Without prior military knowledge, it has been difficult for DW. She is a very vocal type-A and has had many issues with others not following her medical orders or changing them all together. It has been frustrating for her coming from civilian training where things were done in continuity to something much different.

What are your feelings regarding living on-post versus off-post?

When we moved here (Aug 2004) the housing market was white hot. To live on base would have meant that we lived in an apartment for about a year first. The wait list is loooonnnngggg. Of course it depends on the base. Off base housing here is VERY expensive, but luckily now the BAH has increased and it is not quite so bad. We were required to live within a 20 minute response time of the base hospital.

Have you dealt with a deployment yet, and how was it? Does your DH deploy often?

Yep...last summer DW was the first pediatrician deployed, for more than the usual two-week volunteer humanitarian mission, from this base ever. She was gone for 86 days (I know DCJenn, this is nothing...I feel for you!). It was interest and hard, especially with two boys...well, maybe the hardest part was the three months with my MIL.
The deployments are changing. I don't know how it will affect us, currently DW is on maternity leave. It turns out one of the other pediatricians was due for Iraq, but she was placed on bed-rest and is now on terminal leave. I have no idea how or who decides the deployment schedule. I only know that it is a messed up process and everyone will get their chance if they are in long enough.

Do you have to be conscious of with whom you socialize (i.e. enlisted vs officer), etc?

I am not so sure about this. I think that it is a terrible way to classify people. We were threatened by DW's immediate command that we should be careful who we have take care of our boys when I can't do it- for whatever reason. All our neighbors are military, most are long-time enlisted. I think it is an issue if you are truly immersed in the military way and want to make a career of it, with aspirations to become Col. and higher. For us, we are not the type to go out to clubs and such so that isn't an issue, but if we are having people over for say, the SuperBowl we invite all our friends (officers and enlisted). I cringe when I hear one of the officers in DW's office call people, in a restaurant, off-base, off duty, by their rank instead of their name.

We did civilian residency, as we didn't sign with the AF until almost third year of residency. We were in no way prepared for the military experience. No one told us anything, from a "real world" viewpoint. The recruiter did his job and that was that.
If you have any other questions, DCJenn is a great resource (as is Mommax3). She is on the Army side of the military beast. There are several other spouses that have been in or are in. Just ask...we aren't timid with opinions and advice! Just be prepared, as some times we have a hard time editing ourselves for those just wading into the medical life....let alone those adding the military commitment along with it!!

[DCJenn]

True to everything Matt has said.

It's hard to staddle both worlds, that's for sure.

There are many, many positive aspects to the military. I've met amazing people, I've had outstanding medical care, I am very supported by the machine during my husband's deployment. You have to completely immerse yourself because you're not civilians, you won't be civilians until you decide to leave. You can't compare what 'they' do with the way things are done in the civilian world. Some of that is good, some not so good.

The military system provides their staff with the top of the line equipment and usually the training to use it.

The downside- the nursing shortage is even more accute in the military than it is in the civilian world so they're hiring civilian nurses. The military nurses and the civilian nurses (and the techs too for that matter) come to the table w/ an entirely different mindset and it can get downright ugly.

There is a very good chance your spouse will deploy. Just accept it as part of your reality and don't be surprised when it happens. As Matt found out deployments don't necessarily happen to the war zone and it doesn't make it any easier! (although I believe that his wife found the experience fulfilling on a professional level, though frustrating on the personal level)

It doesn't matter who you are or what you've done or not done on the civilian side- you become your rank, and you defer to your superior officers. and as with all parts of the universe, there are some people who should not be managing others. (some of our civilian brethern are currently experiencing this)

We lose a lot of good people when their commitments are up, too. It's a sad fact of life.

We are lifers- by the time the payback is done my husband will have 22 years in since he was enlisted as well. Whether we stay in is dependent on the situation w/ military medicine at that time. To say that it's in flux would be the understatement of the century. The Walter Reed thing exposed the seedy underbelly and I for one and VERY glad. The military medical system was woefully unprepared for this war and has been sucked dry by the Pentagon moving monies to other parts of the military. Finally, I think people have realized that this situation MUST change.

So, we'll see.

and in the meantime, my husband the child neurologist is dispensing Sudafed and bandaids to Iraqi detainees with the 31st CSH out of Ft. Bliss, TX. (he does do a neuro clinic once a week for our guys)

Jenn

[Rapunzel]

Oh, I have lots of opinions at this point (dh was hpsp, active duty during a civilian residency, and is now an attending with the AF).

But, I'm going to keep most of them to myself.


I will just comment on the "socializing" thing (ie rank, enlisted, commissioned, etc.):

You will find by the time your husband is "done" that the majority of the enlisted people are really "kids" compared to you and your husband in age. My husband is now 31 and the enlisted people he deals with (techs mostly) are all about ten years younger than he is. If anything, when he does "extra" stuff (such as visit high schools and such) he feels kind of fatherly towards these, for lack of a better word, kids.

So, I don't think it's going to be a big issue with the enlisted vs commissioned aspect - simply because of the large age difference you will experience accompanied by such radically different lifestyles/life experiences.

As far as "rank". None of my husband's fellow attendings refer to one another by rank. It is always "Dr. __________". You'll find the exception to the rule are military doctors who really do put their military careers before medicine - those people generally insist that you refer to them by their rank. Fortunately, they are few and far between.

Associating with others of higher or lower "rank" is really no big deal. We have friends who are technically up above my husband and technically down below him. Heck, one of the most helpful friends I have had since moving here is technically the wife of my husband's boss's boss's boss. And, it doesn't matter. Of course, we are at an educational hospital so things tend to be more focused on the medical aspect than the GIJoe aspect.

If your husband ends up doing the educational track with the military (ie teaching at a residency program) then he's going to find people he is training (residents) who are technically above him (sometimes far above him) in "rank". And....it doesn't matter during their training. However, it does mean that people advance once out of residency according to how many years they served (medical or not) in the military previously rather than their competency level. Just remember: The military is NOT a meritocracy.

And, I will leave it at that. And, refrain from the other observations I have made (which actually probably conflict with the previous two posters in some ways). :02:

[DCJenn]

Actually-

TR makes a good point about people refering to each other as "Dr."- it's certainly a collegial relationship between the docs and each other and the docs and the nurses- provided you are done with training. I mean everyone will still call everyone else Doctor but there's a difference between a resident and an attending, no matter where you work!

It's complicated because once you become friendly w/ people (especially as spouses) you will socially refer to them as Bob and Sue Jones but if you're referring to them through a military matter it'll be Col. and Mrs. Jones. If you see them at church, it'll be Bob and Sue. If you see them at the commissary, it'll be Col. and Mrs. If your husband sees the Col. at work, he can be either Col. or Dr. (I'm not helping at all, am I?) and your husband will be either Dr. or Lt.

I was more referring to the fact that you can be walking through the parking lot and see your neighbor and even if you just had BBQ at their house the previous evening, you should still salute, particularly if there are other people around.

and nothing makes my husband more nuts than when he's not saluted by enlisted personnel, probably because he was enlisted and sees it as a complete lack of respect. He will call them on it, too.

The hospitals themselves (inside) are no hat-no salute areas though because otherwise you'd spend all day saluting and being saluted!

Most people don't live on post, and again it's mostly because the waiting lists are very long. The Army is redoing all of it's officer housing and as w/ all home repairs, it's taking a lot longer than they'd thought.

and TR is also right about the age differences as well. There are some extremely high ranking senior enlisted personnel here in San Antonio. (They get the same perks as the Generals in terms of identified parking spaces, etc.) but generally the techs are enlisted and are not far out of high school. (The nurses are officers if they're BSNs)

Don't stress, you have years to figure it out!

Jenn

Thanks for the replies!

First of all, I want to appologize to you, gmdcblack, for assuming that only women would be answering my post.

Actually, now I have one more question about the AF deployments. How long are they, generally? DH's recruiter said they would be 4-6 months, tops, and could be much shorter. I do realize that recruiters can't always be trusted and that the length of the deployment probably depends on the needs of the AF at that time, but can you give me a ballpark estimate? Have any of you AF folks dealt with a particularly lengthy deployment? Does the length of the deployments differ for Flight Surgeons vs those who did a residency?

Once again, thanks for all the insight!

[DCJenn]

Typically and historically, AF deployments have been 4 months.

That said, there are known examples of AF docs being deployed longer.

Jenn

Are you glad your spouse chose to become military? No . Sorry, just being honest. Even he admitted last night that he would do things differently now.

What are your feelings regarding living on-post versus off-post?
I've never known any docs who lived on-post. Most live off-post in a nicer part of the city (most of the bases, not all, tend to be in the seedy part of town).


Have you dealt with a deployment yet, and how was it? Does your spouse deploy often?
DH was deployed last year for 4.5 months. It sucked. Not nearly as bad as Jenn's deployment experience is sucking right now but it still sucks. I've heard that AF docs tend to deploy every 20 months or so. If you have 4 years of payback, you can expect to go at least 2x.


Do you have to be conscious of with whom you socialize (i.e. enlisted vs officer), etc?

Also, those of you whose spouses are doing/have done military residencies, did he/she choose to do one, or weren't you able to get a civilian deferment?
We got a civilian deferment.

How do you fell about a military residency vs a civilian one?
I think it would be very dependent on the specialty. I think (emphasize think because this was over 8 years ago) that my DH thought he would do more in a civilian residency (he is in surgery). . .and he is very, very bummed about how little they do (as in actual procedures and not paperwork hell) during the payback time. For another specialty, it might be completely fine but as a surgeon, he needs to actually operate to stay up on his skills.

[DCJenn]

Oh, as for the question whether or not we'd choose the military again- I don't have the answer to that because we've been military the whole way through so I have nothing to compare it to.

and because he went to USUHS, he had an actual salary AND earned years toward retirement, etc.

If he'd done HPSP or FAP, I'd probably be chomping at the bit to get out. I mean every year he stays in after 20 (or 22 in reality) adds more to the percentage he'll get at retirement. He can retire w/ 100% retirement at 64. That (knock wood) still gives us plenty of time to spend that money! In all seriousness though, the military medical world is ever-changing. At this point- we have 6.25 years left to pay back and my husband is currently deployed to Baghdad. He'll likely have more deployments. After 6 more years of this, I'll probably be ready to write the "thanks but no thanks" letter myself.

Really, the thing that you need to know is that the military is as miserable a place as you want to make it. FairQueen's husband was sent to the place that they had heard they had a 10% chance to go- so, she was stunned, annoyed and then figured out the positives and off they go. That's what you have to do to make it work.

Jenn

[mommax3]

Here's a quick synopsis of our experience, followed by answers to your questions.

DH attended a civilain medical school and was selected for a military OB/Gyn residency after preferencing a deferral. He had not even interviewed at that program (although he did a rotation there) so being selected for an active duty residency came out of the blue. He was a strong candidate (test scores, letters, etc.) though, so that is why we think he was selected. He did his military residency from 1997 - 2001 at Wilford Hall/BAMC, with two month OB rotations to Ft. Hood each year, as well. The hours sucked, but they would have sucked anywhere. We enjoyed San Antonio very much, and he feels he received good training. He spent his payback time at Sheppard AFB in north Texas from July 2001 to May 2005. I *HATED* it there. He has been happily civilian (in partnership with someone he met during residency) for almost two years now.

Are you glad your spouse chose to become military? We would not do it again. I am always torn regarding this question, though, because if DH had not been HPSP, we would not have had our first child as soon as we did, and I can't imagine life without him.

The biggest drawback of our military experience was that DH was named in a lawsuit, and found out that although you are protected financially from malpractice litigation when you are active duty, there is no one representing *the doctor* if a case goes to trial. The military lawyers are working to protect the military, and no one really gives a sh*& about the doc's reputation. The military can decide to settle a case without consulting the doctor involved, or can decide to proceed to trial. The lawyer for the military will likely change two or three times before the case is over, and with each change, there will be a different idea of how the case should be handled. In our situation, a case that would have been a slam dunk for the defendant in the real world (or even a dismissal, in some states) ended with DH's name going to the national practitioner databank. As an OB, DH's name would have ended up in the databank sooner or later anyway , but it was very hard for him to start his civilian career (getting credentialed, etc.) with that hanging over his head. That issue, and the military's refusal to pro-rate bonus pay, are the biggest things I can think of that are negatives......there were other garden variety issues, but those exist in the civilian world, too.

What are your feelings regarding living on-post versus off-post?
I've known some docs that lived on-base/post, but it was never something we were interested in. We had too many pets, for one thing!

Have you dealt with a deployment yet, and how was it? Does your spouse deploy often?
DH was never deployed, thank God. When he started his payback, I was 7.5 months pregnant, and had two little boys who were 6 and 3. DS was born 9/7/01, and we all know what happened 9/11/01. There was lots of confusion right after 9/11 and a lot of the informatin we were getting was that DH would definitely be deployed, maybe even by Christmas. I honestly think I would have lost my mind if that had happened. I had enough of a hard time after DS #3 was born with DH home......it would not have been pretty if he had deployed. We knew several AF FPs that deployed during our four years of payback, though.

Do you have to be conscious of with whom you socialize (i.e. enlisted vs officer), etc? We didn't really worry about this. Sheppard was the first stop after basic for airmen, so most of the enlisted folks were very young. We didn't live on base, though, so our military contacts were limited, anyway.

Also, those of you whose spouses are doing/have done military residencies, did he/she choose to do one, or weren't you able to get a civilian deferment?
As I already stated, we wanted a deferment but didn't get one.

How do you fell about a military residency vs a civilian one?
In hindsight, I am glad DH did a military residency, given that he had to do a payback. The transition from resident to staff doc is hard enough without having to learn a whole new "system" of doing things, especially at a smaller base. Also, I am glad we had the chance to live in San Antonio! After two years of practice, DH still feels he received very good training and had no problems passing oral or written boards. There were times during training when he expressed frustration at the amount of surgical cases he was getting to do......but no frustration with the obstetric experience he got!

Sally