deployment questions

[peggyfromwastate]

Hi- I've posted before 1 time asking questions about USU, as my husband is very interested in attending there and pursuing a military medical career. Well, he's back east now interviewing all over, and so far at the two (non-military) schools he's gone to, he has met some sort of anti-military people (well, they say "military isn't for everyone" and "if you have a family, you should REALLY think about it"). I agree with both of these statements, but he thinks that the admissions types are saying something more along the lines of "if you go military you will never, ever see your family and you will be deployed for years and years."

Naturally, at this point I have a question about deployment. He has decided to stick with the Army for his USU preference sheet, knowing that they deploy more often than the Air Force. But, how often do physicians usually deploy? Is it likely in, say, a five year period that a doc will deploy one time for 1 year? Less? More? I know it's hard to estimate any of this, but maybe someone out there could give an educated guess...

Thanks a lot for any help at all!

Peggy

[DCJenn]

Hello again-

Ok- first there is a difference between deployment and overseas assignments. There are lots of opportunities for overseas assignments but they are hard to get for a variety of reasons. The Eurpoe assigments are coveted by a lot of people, particularly the younger crowd with no kids. The Korea tours are coveted because they give you a ton of points towards fellowship application and you can be done in a year. (My husband was contemplating a 1 year Korea tour himself- the one year tors are unaccompanied- the 2 years are accompanied)

Deployment- as in going off to war or war-like settings- depends a lot on what medical specialty your husband is in. In our 3 years here, I don't know of any pediatricians sent to anywhere other than to Honduras for a one week humanitarian tour that all of the residents do at some point. Right after 9/Wilford Hall (the AF hosptial) had some Air Force Flight Surgeons and some trauma docs activated and sent out but they are back already. BAMC (the Army hospital) didn't have any that I can think of.

There are physicians assigned to the actual units that go overseas, as well. For example, if the 82nd Airborne out of Ft. Bragg is sent somewhere, they have Airborne docs that go with them, along with their own medics and support staff. My husband has a friend from USU who is now a doc at Camp Pendleton in California and he loves it. He was prior service Marines and he really did everything he could to get back 'in the trenches'.

The reserve units continue to be activated relatively frequently but again, it's usually for six months to a year at a time. I had a friend from home sent to the 'stans- but he's a medic with an infantry reserve unit.

Honestly, I'm really not that concerned that he'll be deployed. (and if he is- obviously there's not much I can do about it anyway!) I expect that it will happen, especially as we are 'lifers'- at least once.

Maybe someone who is not at a teaching program can answer from where they are- Rachel or Sally? What's happening at Andrews or Sheppard?

Jenn

[peggyfromwastate]

thanks for the info Jenn! I can imagine that as a pediatrician, maybe there wouldn't be much need for your husband in combat-type areas! That's good! I'm glad to hear that deployment is usually short term. On the SDN forums, some people make it seem that it is very common to be deployed for 18 months or more... Also, one guy commented that since the military has a shortage of doctors, many docs have to work 16 + hour days frequently... Is this typical? Do you know? I know that in civilian sector, even if a doc's shift is "only" during office hours, when you add in dictations and what not, it usually is about 13 or 14 hours...

oh well. do you have any ideas about hours? thanks for all the help!

Peggy

[DCJenn]

Peggy-

Who are these people????

There are shortages of docs in certain areas but they are generally the same areas that there are shortages in the civilian world- radiology and surgery immediately spring to mind.

All of the programs that I know of are full, as are the fellowships. Hours? Again, we're at a teaching facility but I really don't see the staff having long hours or a horrible life. There are lots of parties held by staff, that's for sure! We have a few friends who are working as GMOs this year (one in Internal Medicine and one as a Flight Surgeon in the clinic used by the basic trainees at Lackland) and they have cake hours. 8 hour shifts, occasional weekends, etc.

I know Sally's husband got hit with working some long hours when one of the OBs left and they had the big 9/11 baby boom.

Internship sucks- but internship sucks no matter whether you're military or civilians. I think it sucks a lot less for those of us in the military because we don't have the monetary pressures some of the civilians do. There may be debt but it's no where near what the civilian side sees.

They can be deployed for 18 months but usually the people gone that long are not the docs. Remember, the military has a lot of money invested in these people and they don't want to them to 1) be killed or 2) leave. Most docs end up in a support setting- i.e. on a Navy ship (they have really long deployments sometimes) or at one of the European or Asian large hospitals. But- again, it really depends on what is needed and where.

The entire military is changing and the medical corps is changing too. Right now, they are implementing the residency hour restrictions and trying to manage that. The military itself is going through an overhaul as they realize that the way wars were fought in the past is gone forever. The medicals personnel will adapt over time, too.

Hope this helps!

Jenn

[mommax3]

Hi Peggy,

I will tell you what I know about deployment, which isn't a whole lot. First of all, residents are not deployed because they are still being trained and the military would not be taking care of their "investments" if they kept them from getting that training.

After you are done with residency, it is a different story. A lot depends on where you are stationed, but specialty doesn't have as much to do with it as I thought. Here at Sheppard, a whole bunch of doctors just got back from a deployment to Diego Garcia, an island in the South Pacific that is basically a refueling station for planes. The docs that went were from all different specialties, from family practice to ortho. They were gone for three months and it sounds like they had a lot of time on their hands while they were there. Some of our army friends arrived at their first post after residency and as they were in-processing at the new post, they learned that they were "on mobility", which means that they will be the physician that accompanies any troops that deploy. It may be the same terminology with the Air Force, I am not sure. According to what I heard, you stay "on mobility" for a period of time and if nothing happens, you don't go anywhere, your time on mobility is up, and someone else gets to be on mobility.

As far as overseas goes, the trick (I guess) is to volunteer for an overseas assignment that you want before you are given a non-voluntary overseas assignment to a place NO ONE wants. The longer you are active duty (your husband will be considered active duty as soon as he starts med school if he goes to USU) the higher you are on a list of people to go overseas. From a strictly military standpoint, active duty officers are not supposed to spend years and years in the military without an overseas assignment, so while docs in training are protected from those assignments, they are rising on the list, and USU people who have a minimum of 7 years active duty already in by the time they finish residency will almost certainly go overseas. We are dealing with this now, although my husband is not a USU grad, because after this year, he will have 6 years of active duty in and is pretty high on the "list" to go overseas -- this is because he did an active duty residency. The problem is, we only owe two more years after this year, but if they gave him an overseas assignment, it would be for three years and thus he would end up working for Uncle Sam for a year longer than he is obligated. The alternative would be going somewhere for a year unaccompanied, but we are not interested in that if we can avoid it.

I am sure the length of the working day depends on where you are and your specialty, but my husband's hours are awesome and will be much worse when he is in the private sector. I know that some of the OB/GYNs at Ft. Bliss are getting their butts kicked and are working long days, but I haven't heard about anything close to 16 hour days. Maybe someone else can shed some light on that -- residency, yeah (that would be a normal day!), but that is true for civilian programs too.

Hope this helps.

Sally

[peggyfromwastate]

Hi! Thanks so much Jenn and Sally for all your input. Mostly I've been hearing negative stuff from a couple of posts on the SDN forum- but these people obviously have a grudge against the military and are resentful that they signed up for HPSP. I think that maybe they think they were "tricked" because of how the info was presented to them from a recruiter type, but I really don't know. Also, during the first 2 interviews my husband went to on his recent trip he came across admissions people who warned him to really really think about the military because he'll be deployed a lot and will not see his family... But they have a vested interest in keeping him from having the military option as a top choice, I guess.

Well, I feel very encouraged from what you have written. Since my dad is a civilian doc, I kinda know about the hours and what not of many specialties (he was ER for about 25 yrs, and now in Occupational med he is semi-retired but works 5 days a week for about 14 or 15 hours a day; when he wasn't "retired", he worked about 16 ER shifts a month, plus 6 Occupational med shifts, all about 14-15 hr/day, so I guess he qualifies as a workaholic. In fact, when he was in military med as a flight surgeon for the navy, he was frustrated with how little he had to work, so he moonlighted every weekend in local ERs.)

Anyway, most of what I have heard is that the quality of life for military docs is nice compared to civilian. So nice to hear from the wives! THanks a bunch for all the info!

Peggy

Peggy -

We are not military but since moving to San Antonio, I have met a TON of families who are military through church. From what they have told me, they have had GREAT experiences in the military. They don't have the money stress that my family does and their work hours are quite good. My one good friend who's husband is doing his "payback", works regular hours, coaches his son's T-ball team and is involved in a lot of church activities. He did get sent to Turkey for six months last year, which his wife says was a HUGE drawback but they survived and that was their only separation in the whole process. They will be done in another year with their payback.

I think it is a great route to go but it definitely isn't for everyone. My husband considered it but ... we are a little bit older and our kids our older. We decided that we could pay back money better than time and we would be able to control where we lived a little better than in the military. I am hoping that my kids won't be uprooted too much. Anyway...

Good luck in your decision!
Robin

[peggyfromwastate]

Robin- thank you for the info. We have a 6-yr-old (1st grader) and have figured that by the time my husband would be ready to begin his payback, she'd be starting her high school years! A pretty hectic time to move her around. But, we would be having to move the civilian route as well, most likely. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...

Thanks for your positive impressions on military lifestyle during payback time! This helps a lot!

Peggy

Peggy,
I replied to your last question as well, but I hope this additional information helps. As far as deployments go how often your are deployed and to where depends on many factors--your specialty, your unit, the number of docs in your specialty available at that particular base, and world conditions. I read the other replys and my experience is somewhat different. My husband is a general surgeon now doing a fellowship in vasculary surgery. Please understand my response is coming from the perspective of a wife of a surgeon. Residency hours are long!! Other specialties have it a bit easier, but during our internship year Brian got an average of one day off a month. He then went to Korea for one year on a hardship GMO (General Medical Officer) tour. When we graduated from USUHS it was pretty common for Army docs to take a GMO tour following internship. The reason being there are always more intern spots than there are 2nd year residency spots. However, we knew many who went straight through--we also knew many who did a GMO tour. The non-hardship tours are 2 years and many are stateside. Brian chose Korea because it was only one year, we had no kids at the time, and he felt it was best for his carrier. I stayed stateside and worked. When he returned he got is first choice for the duration of his residency (BAMC in San Antonio) and he was very busy. He averaged 2 days off a month. We had our first child at the start of his second year. The hours for a surgical resident can run 12-16 hours a day easy with on call shifts every third night. His first staff position was at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany. His hours there were GREAT!! (8-10 hours a day usually, with one to two call nights a week and one on call weekend a month. We also enjoyed several 3-4 day weekends over all the government holidays. We were very lucky. He was not deployed during our first year in Germany. I say lucky because many surgeons we knew were deployed almost immediately after leaving their residency programs and arriving at there new post. These deployments were a minimum of 3 months. As I said in my last letter, Brian was deployed about 5 1/2 months our 2nd year in Germany. We had a new baby at the time. He was in Bulgaria for about 3 weeks, Nigeria for 3 months and Miami (a training assignment) for 6 weeks. Europe was a great assinment, but the Army docs were deployed frequently. I should add that the Air Force docs we worked with were never deployed. We also have a friend who was an internal medicine doc who has been deployed at least once every year since he has been in Germany--part of the reason for his frequent deployments it that there are only 2 docs in his department who are deployable. Another Army doc friend we new there was never deployed. My point is that it is extremely variable. So try not to worry about it too much now. Be excited that your husband has this wonderful oppotunity. Despite our separations due to work, we have totally enjoyed our military experince and will continue to do so until about 2013 when we can retire. My 6 year old is now a seasoned traveler and brags that he has friends all over the world. My 19th month old was born in Germany and the hospital was great! We have gotten to see places we would have never seen if it weren't for the military. Our marriage is stonger because of our time apart. It hasn't always been easy, but it has been rewarding.

[peggyfromwastate]

Thanks Shiela for the information- Do you think that being based in Germany increases the number of deployments? My husband doesn't know what he wants to specialize in yet, but overall he's very excited about the military and he has chosen Army as his branch at USUHS. Are you and your husband from a military background, or was he a civilian before going to USUHS???

Again, thanks for the information!

Peggy

Peggy,
I don't think being in Germany necessarily increases the number of deployements. There are places in CONUS (Continental U.S.) where deployments can be just as frequent. It has more to do with the Unit you are assigned to. Even though my husband worked out of Landstuhl Army Regional Medical Center his unit was an FST (Forward Surgical Team) located near Wurzburg (3 hours away). When his unit went, so did he. And although we requested to be stationed in Germany, we had no say in which unit he was assigned to. By the way there are 3 Army hospital in Germany--Landstuhl (the largest), Wurzburg, and Heidelberg.

In answer to your other question, my husband joined the Army reserves straight out of High School and remained in the reserves through college. He was enlisted (SGT) before being accepted to USUHS.