Confused About Army Payback

Hi Ladies!

I am new to this board. My husband is about to start his fourth year, and we have run the Stafford loan program dry. That's right, we have actually maxed out on our loans. In order to pay for this last year of school, we are looking at the one year Army scholarship. (Hubby meets with a recruiter next week.)

I first want to thank you all for the time and detail you have taken with you past posts. I have spent hours reading over these, and I feel like I am gaining an invluable perspective on things.

I do have one question that I can't seem to find the answer to. An aquaintance of my husband mentioned something about payback time included reserve time. She sais something about being required to payback 8 years, but that some of those years could be reserve time. What in the world was she talking about?

I would appreciate any help you could give!

Thanks

Shelley

[Rapunzel]

Jennifer and Sally will probably know better on this subject, but I *think* if you have to payback less than a certain number of years active duty then you have to also give a certain number of years in the reserves. Someone else jump in here and help us!

[mommax3]

Here are two scenarios I can tell you about:

My husband took a four year Air Force (HPSP) scholarship (Uncle Sam paid for all four years of med school) and expected to do 4 years of active duty payback and 4 years as an inactive reservist (meaning they could call him back if they needed him). He chose the specialty of OB/GYN and was selected for a military residency, which was four years in length. He is now finishing his second year of active duty, and has learned that his residency time counts as fulfilling his inactive reserve committment. So after 2 more years, we are free and clear.

A friend of ours did the Family Assistance Program (FAP) through the Air Force, which means he got through med school with loans and got financial assistance during residency from the Air Force. The committment with this program is however many years you are supported plus one, for both active duty time and inactive reserve time -- in his case, he did a civilian Family Practice residency (3 years) and then spent four years active duty in the Air Force, and owed four years of inactive reserve time -- three of which were considered fulfilled because of his three years of residency. He spent his first year of private practice (he separated about a week before 9/11) living in fear that he would be called back, but he wasn't, and he is now free and clear.

So is that clear as mud?

Just keep in mind that residency (whether civilian or military) will count toward fulfilling the inactive reserve time, and as long as the residency is as long or longer than the time you owe, you really only have to worry about the active duty part of the committment.

Hope this helps -- ask away whenever you need to know something and I will try to find out the answer if I don't know already.

Sally

[DCJenn]

Shelley-

My advice is to make sure the recruiter knows AMEDD and isn't making stuff up as he goes along. Make sure your husband asks for someone that he can speak to in AMEDD (Army Medical Department) and you may want to check out the AMEDD website which can be linked to from http://www.army.mil. AND READ THE FINE PRINT!!! A lot of recruiters aren't that familiar with AMEDD so it will be to your benefit to do some research BEFORE he meets with him/her.

The Army owns my husband so once he's done with payback, he'll be ready to retire!

Jenn

Thank you all for the information!

I am having trouble getting into the AMEDD site, but I will keep trying.

Incidentally, how do internships work? Are you automatically to do your internship on the base where you match?

Thanks again!

[DCJenn]

The military match is a little different than the civilian match in that there are fewer military locations to match to in the first place. (For example, we a choice of 4)

They will take the USUHS grads first (my husband- which is why we had a choice of 4), and match them, then the HPSP students. Not all HPSP students will match at a military hospital (The other Jenn's husband has a sweet deal with the AF!!) but they will fill their openings first.

It's sort of unclear how much the selection lists really matter, if you read my diary entry, you'll see what I mean!

Jenn

Sally,

Thanks for the info on FAP(DW is currently FAP). I didn't know that the residency counted toward reserve time. Every little bit of info going into it helps!!
We are still about 18mths away from DW going to COT but that is helpful.

[mommax3]

We didn't realize it either, until our friend (in the example) told us -- he was doing payback while DH was a resident. It is amazing what they DON'T tell you -- keep in mind that DH was a resident in a military program, and we were still clueless. The prevailing assumption is that you are in it for career -- I guess it is denial on the parts of the higher ups, since most military docs get out as soon as they can.

Sally

[DCJenn]

The highest ranking general pediatrician in the Air Force is a Major- that says it all, doesn't it!

Jenn

Once again, thanks to you all. I am beginning to see how the lack of communication can be an interesting bed fellow.

I talked with a friend last night whose husband is also an almost MSIV. They have been on HSPS since the beginning, and she was totally unaware of any required reservist time. She also said that they were told that residency counts as half-time towards your active duty payback. She explained it as her husband would owe four years for the four years of med school. He would earn a half year towards payback for each year of residency, leaving him with only two years of active duty to payback once he was done. I respectfully disagreed with her.

So, just to make sure that I am on the right page, would ya'll look this over and see if I am understanding things:

My husband will take a one year Army scholarship, but he will owe back a minimum of two years active duty in repayment for that one year of med school tuition and stipen. If all goes as planned, he will enter the military match and get a residency in PM&R at Walter Reed. He will do one year of internship and three years of residency at Walter Reed. Then, he will owe two years of active duty and that's all???

OR

My husband will take a one year Army scholarship, but he will owe back a minimum of two years active duty in repayment for that one year of med school tuition and stipen. He doesn't match Army but is able to do a civilian residency in PM&R. (This is where I am a little sketchy.) He will do an internship and a residency outside of the Army. He is paid as a reservist and considered deferred in this situation, right? At the end of residency, he owes the two years, right?

I'm really just curious. I like to plan for whatever elements I possibly can, so if I am in for more than two years - which we could be... I think I am more willing to be a lifer than my hubby is ! - I just want to know.

Thanks so so so much!

Shelley

[mommax3]

Hi Shelley,

According to what I have told you so far, both scenarios that you posted would be correct.

HOWEVER........

I just asked my husband to make sure I am telling you correctly, and he said what he was told (10 years ago! 8O ) is that everyone owes 8 years of active duty time + inactive reserve time -- whatever active duty time you owe (in your case, two years) and then the inactive reserve time makes up the difference (6 years for you), minus the years of residency (4 years) -- so in your case, you guys may be looking at two additional years of inactive reserve time after you finish your active duty time. He also said (STRONGLY) read every word of your contract and ask questions until you are sure you understand every bit of it -- if the recruiter doesn't know, push him to ask someone that does.

Sorry if I led you astray earlier. If it is any consolation, you know more right now than we did at your stage. Good luck and keep us posted -- and PLEASE correct me if I(we) said something wrong.

Sally

P.S. Your friend is DEFINITELY wrong in her assumption, unless they have some very sweet deal that I have never heard of. Even an active duty residency counts as nothing toward your payback -- DH did one and still owed four years. Encourage her to find and read a copy of the contract her husband signed -- they could be in for a huge shock.

[DCJenn]

Just to reiterate what Sally said, my husband is finishing three years of peds residency and will do three years of fellowship and THEN can start his payback of seven.

again, just make sure you read and understand the contracts!!

Jenn

[Rapunzel]

Sally and Jen are correct: You owe a year payback in active duty service for every year the military funds you - AFTER residency training/fellowship is complete. So, if you took a four year HPSP scholarship you will owe four years of active duty after the residency is complete. We, too, were confused on this point right up until his residency began. I encourage you to contact the officer in charge of your military branch's HPSP program or its equivalent. That person will be in a better position than a recruiter to answer more detailed questions. HOWEVER, that person for our military branch was still unfamiliar with a few very important details that have led to a huge (and I mean HUGE) mix-up with my husband's pay that we are still trying to sort out after almost a year! Make sure you read every tiny little bit of his contract and ask for clarification IN WRITING WITH SIGNATURES of the officers involved. There is no such thing as a handshake deal in the military - and our experience is that recruiters really are not well equipped with the knowledge to answer important questions regarding military medical scholarships.

As far as the reserves issue: I asked my husband and he agree with Sally's - you owe a combination of 8 years no matter what. So for example, if you owe four years back for a military scholarship for medical school, then after residency is complete you will owe four years active duty service followed by four years in the reserves.

Everyone's input has helped so much. Thanks!

I still have a question about the military match, though...

When we enter the match are we doing so for both internship and residency at the same time? Is it possible to be assigned to a residency at say San Antonio but to match to a residency at Walter Reed? I am just curious.

And as for Walter Reed, I am so nervous about the DC area. I am so afraid we won't be able to afford the high cost of living. I have heard horror stories about it. (Can you tell I am not really a big city gal? )
Would we be able to find housing in a nice area - not too far from the hospital - on a military residents salary?

Thanks!

Shel

[Rapunzel]

I will just respond to the second part of your question because I can't answer the first part:

My husband is currently officially stationed at a base outside of Boston. Boston is THE highest cost of living metropolitan area in the US. To make things even worse the hospital he is working at is located in the most expenisive place to live in this highest cost of living area in the US! So, we pay about three times what we paid in rent for a larger house with much more (garage, yard, etc) in the DFW metropolitan area (which has a mid-level cost of living). The military adjusts your husband's pay according to the cost of living for various zip codes in the US. We were told that they go according to the zip code of where your husband WORKS (not where you choose to live). If the base happens to be in an expensive part of the area then you will see a relatively large increase in your pay in an attempt to compensate for this variation. What would be really bad is if his hospital was located in an extremely low cost of living area surrounded entirely by high cost of living suburbs. That could land you in trouble financially. You can also explore living on base. That might be a viable alternative - although it will significantly lower your pay because you will not have any housing portion in it.