my husband is considering a military med career in Army

Hi- I was just hoping somebody could give me some information about military medicine careers- especially input on the lifestyle for the families. My husband is interviewing at USU in a couple of weeks. This is his top choice for medical schools, but if not accepted, he'll probably accept the military medical scholarship. We really want to minimize the loans we take at this point, and so USU is ideal from that standpoint. He has chosen the Army as his top preference, basically because it seems to have the fewest bases, and it has a base located very close to where we have most of our family. He's always liked the Army, anyway. So- some questions:



*If he's interested in orthopedices, would he have to wait several years before a residency spot opens up? What is it like to be a GMO? Do they get paid more than regular medical school students at USU?



*How likely is it to be moved all over the place if you're a military physician in the Army? We have 3 kids (daughter 6, and boy-girl twins 1), so moving all over sounds daunting at this point... He's also planning on being a career military doc.



*What is the life like for doctors in the military? My dad was a flight surgeon for a few years; later he worked with an ER doc who had been a doctor for the Air Force. Both of them say that the military "railroads patients through the system" and "works the doctors to the bone". What is the lifestyle like for the doctors? I am under the impression that doctors are well-treated, and in general the hours are better and working conditions better than in the general civilian population...



Well- if anyone could answer these questions or some of them I would be so grateful! I just really am searching for information! Thanks!

[DCJenn]

*If he's interested in orthopedices, would he have to wait several years before a residency spot opens up? What is it like to be a GMO? Do they get paid more than regular medical school students at USU?



Hi-

I posted at the other board- but here's the answer times 2! (I've never been good at following directions!)

I'm Jenn, my husband is a USU graduate and he's Army.



*How likely is it to be moved all over the place if you're a military physician in the Army? We have 3 kids (daughter 6, and boy-girl twins 1), so moving all over sounds daunting at this point... He's also planning on being a career military doc.

There are two answers to this- 1) it depends on the needs of the Army and 2) how much time in service- the more time you have in, the better able you are to control where you go - acknowledging that you are still dependent on the Uncle Sam.

USU is great about letting them have opportunities to visit other bases- Air Force and Navy as well. Of the 14 months we dated my husband was goen for 9. Other people never left USU except to maybe go to Walter Reed or maybe Virginia Beach.

*What is the life like for doctors in the military? My dad was a flight surgeon for a few years; later he worked with an ER doc who had been a doctor for the Air Force. Both of them say that the military "railroads patients through the system" and "works the doctors to the bone". What is the lifestyle like for the doctors? I am under the impression that doctors are well-treated, and in general the hours are better and working conditions better than in the general civilian population...


From what I have read here- I think we are treated significantly better than most civilian programs. I have had no problem with the military lifestyle whatsoever. We have free medical, additional pay toward housing, access to the VA for home buying, free gyms onpost, the commissary, the PX- (tax free shopping). Sure, Uncle Sam comes first- but at least for us, that's OK. Uncle Sam paid for medical school.

There are always problems with dealing with beauracracy but that's anywhere.

As for patients- I've only used the family medicine department and there are some screwy regs (like in order to get your annual physical you have to answer a whole bunch of questions first- on a computer and then they go over your answers with you. But heck -it's really only to get to know you better so I'm ok with it. I had excellent medical care when I hurt my leg doing a marathon- I saw ortho, nuclear medicine, radiology and Family medicine and I was treated well and very professionally. My husband is a pediatrician so I'm somewhat biased, but I think the staff and residents in his program are great people and appear to be quite competant docs as well. (of course I'm 35 not 5 so I can't really say for sure!)

Hope this helps!

Jenn

[mommax3]

Hi,

My husband is an Air Force OB/GYN who went to a civilian med school on a military scholarship. He did an active duty residency in San Antonio and now is a staff doctor at Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls.

I won't be able to answer some of your questions, but I will answer what I can. Off the top of my head, I would say that there are far more Army posts than Air Force bases, and my husband agrees. Jenn may be able to enlighten us about that point for sure. Where you end up for residency and to pay back your time will have lots to do with what the Army (Air Force, Navy) needs and less to do with what you want.

I would not agree that military docs are worked to death, but there are definitely those who feel that the patients are not treated as well as they would be in a civilian setting -- I think it depends where you are. We did not notice this at all in San Antonio, because Wilford Hall and BAMC are big medical centers with specialists and docs in training all over the place. However, now that we are away from that training atmosphere, we have noticed some definite lacks in some of the care we have heard about at smaller bases, including the one we're at now.

If he is interested in ortho, when he applies for residency, whichever branch of service he is in will look to see if they have a need for that specialty. If they don't, he either won't be allowed to do it, or he will have to be a GMO (probably after a year as an intern) until there is a slot open in ortho (or whatever his chosen specialty).

Since you have kids, financing his medical education through the military is a good way to go. Financially it removes a LOT of the burden from you and you don't have to worry about insurance coverage for you or for your kids. I would not count on not moving, though. A lot of people prefer the Air Force to the Army (don't be offended, Jenn! ) as far as the medical scholarship goes. My husband's residency program had both Army and Air Force people in it, and the Air Force requirements were less of a pain than the Army's. Air Force doctors also tend to deploy (get sent on a mission away from home) less often and the bases are often (but not always!) in more desirable places than the Army's.

Not all base/post hospitals have all specialties, so what your husband ultimately chooses will have a lot to do with where you end up. Obviously, a big medical center will have most specialties, but they are usually teaching programs (with residents) and it is harder to be assigned as a staff there when you are fresh out of residency yourself. Not unheard of, though.

Hopefully this is some food for thought. Let us know if you have any other questions.

Sally

[peggyfromwastate]

thanks!

Hi- this is Peggy from Washington State, as my username indicates. My username that seems to be not working is "srabulldog". I set it up on the other forum site, so I don't know why it doesn't work, but oh well... I just wanted to say thanks to Jenn from the Army and Jenn from the Air Force- you are giving me some great information! My husband is especially excited about the military option because of our family needs. But he was leaning towards the Army because on their web page they list only about 7 or 8 major teaching hospitals that their residents are sent to (this is from the medical training program site). But I am getting the idea from you that they really can send you anywhere they have a base to even complete your residency? Or your payback time??? I'm still a bit confused... He's going to interview at USU in 2 weeks and he has to turn in that preference sheet, so I really wanted to figure this out!

Also, from the Air Force site, we got the impression that there are just hundreds and hundreds of bases, and I guess we inferred that we'd be moving around like 3 or 4 times a year! Also, about the Air Force not having a GMO requirement, what does one do if they want to pursue a specialty and no residency spots are open for it? Do they have to just go on to a different residency option?

Oh, well. I hope you don't think I'm wasting your time or your forum space because I'm not a medical military spouse (yet), but I surely do appreciate all of your great information. You seem to be very friendly and compassionate people!

[mommax3]

Hi Peggy,

As far as residency, you are correct in thinking that there are only a few places he would be sent -- this is true for both the Army and the Air Force. He would train at a major medical center -- I am not sure how many there are in either branch (again, depends on the specialty). After residency, though, depending on his specialty, it is a lot more open as to where he would be. The USU route obligates you to 7 years, I think, and there will probably be an overseas assignment in there from what I have heard. You can plan on moving about every three years, on average. (or three years overseas and then a four year assignment back in the states.) The Air Force counterpart to GMO is flight surgeon -- that is what a lot of people do while they wait for a slot in their specialty. The upside is that the time you spend as a flight surgeon/GMO counts toward your payback.

There is a site for the Air Force that lists which bases have which specialties -- I posted a link to it for someone earlier -- I will try to find the thread and post it for you here. There is probably a similar link for army posts -- maybe someone will find it and post it here.

Glad to help.

Sally

[mommax3]

Here is the link -- underneath the map, there will be a list of bases and the specialties authorized at each base. Hope it works -- let me know if it doesn't.

Sally

http://afas1.afpc.randolph.af.mil/medic ... _links.htm

[peggyfromwastate]

thanks so much!

Hey you guys- thank you for all your help! It's great to get some real information- I know you know what I mean! My dad, despite the impression I may have given earlier, was a Flight Surgeon and he really loved it, but military medicine wasn't for him in the long run...

Is the army about the same as the AF as far as moving goes? Moving 2 or 3 times doesn't seem so bad in a 7-year span, really. We've already moved 3 times in the last 3 years... Of course they haven't been dramatic across-the-world moves...

Again, thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it!

Peggy

[DCJenn]

Hi Peggy

Yes, moving is about the same for all of services-

If he goes the USU route this should be the process:

4 years Reserve status at USU- counts towrds retirement but NOT toward pay. MOVE

3+ years of residency (USU grads get priority in terms of getting residency over HPSP grads- also meaning -priority in being given residency at a military training hospital- the Services prefer to kep everyone under their wings) Residency does NOT count toward payback but does count for retirement. MOVE

GMO- counts for payback and retirement MOVE?MAYBE

Fellowship- counts for retirement but NOT payback MOVE

Payback- seven years less any GMO time. PROBABLY NOT- you can 'homestead' once you get some time in and the Army is really working on keeping in the docs who have seniority.

USU students also receive a lot of the military training earlier than the HPSP students and it's all done for them. That allows them to not have to go out during residnecy for stupid training.

So, that's why most USU graduates end up staying in- after they complete all of the training and then do the payback of seven years, they'll have at least 17 years in service anyway- (including USU, residency and fellowship, plus payback)

And we don't mind the questions! I'm just happy there's someone else who's (maybe) Army!

Jenn

[peggyfromwastate]

Hi- First of all- Sally thanks for all the AF info! It is so helpful! The link works perfectly also. Do you have kids? How does that work in the military? Do you like your pediatrician, ob/gyn, etc?

Second- Jenn thanks for all the info about the Army! We both appreciate it! We still are leaning towards Army despite oodles of people telling us that the AF is better (I guess we live in a very biased area). Oh well. One thing I was wondering about is deployment- Sally mentioned that deployment was more frequent with Army than AF. I was wondering what deployment usually entails. Do you have any information on that? Also, do docs have to do a fellowship? I think I read somewhere that your husband is trying to get into a program, and that you're hoping for the DC area. Well, best of luck to you on that!

Anyway, thanks you guys for your advice! You are helping soooo much! I get headaches trying to navigate the websites and find anything useful...

Thanks again-
Peggy

[DCJenn]

The military!

Peggy-

Actually these days it pretty much doesn't matter what branch you choose. They are becming more and more centralized anyway. While at USU, Rick worked at Navy, Air Force and Army hospitals and some civilian DC hospitals. Both the OB/GYN program that Sally's husband was in and the peds program my husband is in are dual service programs. The Adolescent fellowship, the neonatal fellowship and quite a few others are also open to all of the services.

The Air Force is definitely better for women. The Navy requires docs go out to sea. The Army's PT requirements are more stringent. The Air Force Class B uniforms look like bus drivers, the Army's look like Girl Scouts and the Navy's look like janitorial services. The reason Rick is in the Army now is that he was in the Army before. All branches have met (exceeded, actually) their enlistment quotas- so there's lots of need for docs to take care of allof those people and their families!)

The Army's med website is http://www.army.ammed.mil.

Jenn

[mommax3]

Peggy,

Yes, we have three boys, aged 7. 4. and 1. Medical care for them is much, much different than in the civilian world, but it is adequate and I have never thought it was sub-standard. The doctors are fine -- the support staff (receptionists, techs, etc.) are iffy a lot of the time. They don't really have to be concerned about customer satisfaction since there isn't anywhere else active duty people can go, at least for free. There were a lot of hoops to jump through to get an appt., but what I did (and hopefully you will be able to do this too) is I asked my husband to listen to word-of-mouth and find a good pediatrician and then ask if they would follow our kids. I ended up with this pediatrician's pager number, and she really took good care of my boys. That was in San Antonio, where it was a huge medical center with a separate clinic for immunizations. It could be quite a pain to try to get an appointment for one child, find a babysitter for the others,(they didn't like you to bring them all) and then dovetail your doctor appt. with the available appts. at the shot clinic....without the pediatrician we had, I think I would have ripped my hair out several times. As far as my OB/GYN care, I had a little in there since that is my husband's specialty, but it was basically the same. Great doctors, not very nice support staff. They could be downright unpleasant, and they don't care if you complain or not. I noticed that problem a lot more in San Antonio than I do here at Sheppard, which is a much smaller base. Going to the pediatrician is lots easier here, too.

No, doctors do not have to do fellowships. They are for doctors who sub-specialize -- for example, my husband is an OB/GYN -- there are four sub-specialties within that specialty -- Gynecologic Oncology, Reproductive Endocrinology, Maternal-Fetal Medicine, and Urologic Gynecology. He would have to spend three years in a fellowship if he wanted to work in those sub-specialties. I don't think that ortho is a sub-specialty, and I think that it is a five year residency.

Deployment is when a group of doctors from a base/post go somewhere else, usually overseas but sometimes not to serve the medical needs of troops that are stationed somewhere. Spouses/families do not get to go and these can last from three months to a year. Sometimes docs are sent on a rotating basis to bases/posts that have a need for their specialty but don't have a doc in that specialty stationed there. A lot of times you will hear people say that their spouse is TDY (temporary duty) meaning that their spouse is deployed.

As far as residency goes, it won't really make a whole lot of difference which branch your husband is in -- except for the physical training requirements and the survival training requirements. After residency, though, I think there is a significant difference. The Army docs have to be more involved in the military stuff, much more so than I observe with the Air Force, although of course there is some. The deployment issue is significant for me as a spouse. I spent enough time on my own with the kids during residency -- we are hoping to avoid any more time like that if we can. Although since 9-11, anything is possible.

Sally

[peggyfromwastate]

thanks so much for all the information! it helps to hear something about what life as a military medical spouse may be like... my husband is excited about going to USU later this month. If he's accepted, I may be able to contribute to this forum as a true military spouse!

Thanks again for all your information!

Peggy

[DCJenn]

USU is a truly funky campus- it just reaks 1970's architecture. The nice thing is that there's a Metro stop right there so there's no need to commute by car. When we were in DC, Rick just caught the train everyday and enjoyed being able to study rather then stress out in traffic! Housing is HUGELY expensive in the DC area but you are subsidized somewhat. I think we got an extra $800 a month towards housing. If your husband gets in, I'll tell you the better areas for schools and housing so don't think you're going to have to rely on a stressed out med student for info! (and hopefully we'll be heading back next June!)

I grew up about 20 minutes north of USU/Navy Med, so... I'm very familiar with the area!

Jenn

I'm sure you have, but in the off chance you haven't, USU has it's own website to explore.