Stay at home dads

Hello- there has been some talk in the forums lately about stay at home dads and how their wife's career obligations affect parenting, etc. I was wondering if any stay at home dads could tell me a bit about how that works out (specifically during residency). Did you feel outcasted by other stay at home parents (e.g., stay at home moms)? Were you able to work at home while parenting? Did you have time to persue your own interests? What kind of arrangements did you have to make with your spouse, other family, etc.? How is it working out?

It seems like there are a fair amount of men that have gone through this sort of thing and I was just hoping to get some perspective.

Thanks.

[fluffhead]

SAHDs

I think that as more men do this, and more of the general population is exposed to the idea, it becomes easier.
But it's still rare enough that there's little to no support services available for dads, and those which are supposedly open to men and women, are dominated by moms who frequently make the odd man present feel pretty unwelcome.
I will be glad when residency is over. There's not much time in my day to pursue anything, after feeding, changing, laundry, etc. My wife is thankfully understanding of our predicament, and lets me get out by myself when she can be home. Though I treasure this time with our kid, it would be nice to have a spouse with a normal working schedule.
I try to work at home during naptimes, and have managed to get some stuff done, though not as much as I need to do.

Hope this helps! Hope to hear from other SAHDs!

[PrincessFiona]

SAHD's

Hi...I'm not a stay-at-home dad..and I hope you all won't mind me jumping in here....but I have always wondered what the additional challenges of being a stay-at-home dad are.....

I know that we had a couple of SAHD's when my hubby was doing residency...and I confess that I never invited them to playgroups or out for coffee 8O . I thought that they wouldn't be interested, but after I read what you said,

But it's still rare enough that there's little to no support services available for dads, and those which are supposedly open to men and women, are dominated by moms who frequently make the odd man present feel pretty unwelcome

I really had to pause for a minute.

Can you elaborate on your experience as a stay-at-home dad? What types of support services do you think would help to make you feel less isolated and more supported?

(guilt, guilt, guilt!)

Kris

[fluffhead]

I think that as long as it's so uncommon, it's not possible to feel less isolated and more supported. It's the nature of gender relations that there be some discomfort between women and men, and when one man "intrudes" on what is perceived as women's space, there's some tension in the air (this may not happen here, because the women are protected by their monitors).

I have friends who are sahds in more urban settings, where everybody hangs at the local park, and after several encounters they say things get alot more comfortable. But here in SUV-cursed suburbia, people are less likely to meet up repeatedly, and I encounter some hostility. Note that this is not the case universally - I have met and had conversations with moms who seemed perfectly peachy and not on their guard. But a few negative encounters might skew my view, so to speak.

And another thing....(this is running on...) the SAHD "movement" is so young and scattered that different voices are putting forth some very divergent attitudes about how we want to be seen. If you look on slowlane.com, you'll find men who want to be perceived as moms, men who detest being called Mr. Mom, and men who couldn't give a hoot what people think. The feminist movement defined itself a quarter century ago,and people are more hip with how to treat working women, sahms, etc. Maybe we need to get our act together, or maybe people should just treat other people with trust and respect, and not as part of a movement.

fluff"I just wanna be ME"head

[PrincessFiona]

Hmmm

It's really very interesting, and it is something that I hadn't given as much thought to as I could have. Interestingly, many sahm's are also very isolated and feel unsupported, and the sahm movement also puts forth very divergent ideas...It is all so confusing that most days I just feel like screaming "can't we all just get along" :!:

Father's who stay at home are becoming more common and so I guess in a way, it is up to you guys to help us out by defining better what you would like? I guess from my limited experience with guys 8) I just haven't known what those needs are or what would be a good activity for coming together...kind of more a difference between the sexes thing more than an 'intruding on a women's space' thing...at least from my perspective. I think it's great...

I would venture to guess that there are many women out there who also think it's great...but aren't sure if coming to playgroup or the park, etc...is something that you'd be interested in....those stereotypes at work

The feminist movement defined itself a quarter century ago,and people are more hip with how to treat working women, sahms, etc

Well, in a way, I guess....but sahm's still struggle to find the same acceptance in society as working moms. The mommy wars (and I guess the daddy wars) will likely rage on for awhile.

What a neat perspective this is.

Kris

Closet Jealousy

Hello All,
I think that a lot of the isolation between SAHMs and SAHDs is the perceived spousal problems that could arise. It's difficult enough in our busy schedules to get together with anyone. It takes great stability and trust in one's marriage to allow a spouse to spend "a couple of hours" with someone of the opposite sex in pretty much any situation.
Imagine your spouse (female) coming home from work and hearing about the wonderful lunch she had with one of her male counterparts. They had lots in common, had the same problems, same stressful situations, and will get to work together two to three times a week. Gosh, this guy gets all the "good press" and he's got NOTHING in common with you. You're JUST cleaning the house, changing diapers, cooking meals . . . mostly alone. Talk about stress!!
Then, imagine your conversation after meeting a SAHM for a play date: Same number of kids, same problems, same stress, husband that's never home . . . really nice lady. And the look on your wife's face when you talk about the "other lady". NOT EASY!!
This is a big hurdle for both genders. When all we really want is some adult conversation once in a while and someone for our child to play with. As a SAHD, and home schooling, the only "good time" to get together is when my hard-working, tired, stressed out spouse is available. Usually NOT the best time for us.
It is possible to send e-mails to each other here, and no reason we can't become friends outside this forum arena. Sometimes your spouse does something REALLY "out there" but not that you want to put out to the general forum. Guys, lets become our OWN support group. Ladies welcome too. (Just don't tell your Husbands!! ) You're all welcome to email me. Thanks. Xz

Surviving Residency: A WAHD's perspestive

I read with great interest many of the questions and responses with regard to the question of "Is there any other SAHD's whose wife is in residency." While I agreed on the whole with most responses there are other concerns that were not explored namely what do you do if it is not working well. First a background: I am a 41 yr. old male married to an MD/PHD/MPH PGY2 ortho resident. I have two daughters, work from home as a retiring Investment Banker, write part time, and raise my own children as well as do most of the other traditional roles like washing clothes, cleaning, cooking, and homework. We live in a rather nice home on 3 acres with a black lab, and my wife works mostly away pursuing 80-110 work weeks. This inturn, for myself, my 11 year old and 7 year old, has created several situations that we are constantly battling, namely the abscence of a mother and wife. Below is the darker side of medicine that perhaps some of you share. First the bad news according to an AAOO bulletin , article written by Lee Breisch, and a book entitled "THE MEDICAL MARRIAGE: A COUPLES SURVIVAL GUIDE:

*married phsicians have a 10 to 20 higher divorce rate than the general public,
*Of the physicians who stay married almost half report that they are unhappy,
*research has documented significant increases in alchoholism, drug abuse, depression and suicide for both doctors and spouses,
*long hours don't cause problems in marital marriages. Overwork results from physician's desire to escape the tension in marriage.

Here's the good part: Although the above is basically true it's all survivable. Here's what I did before my marrioage collapsed.
Drilled over and over again:
*that despite her long hours the family was sacrificing as much as she was.
*That she at least had time to decompress whether on her 30 hrs. commute or in surrounding her day with adults who didn't demand the childlike attention her children did.
*That despite her view that my activity was somehow less significant than hers that mine was indeed more important because it was our children that was the true focus not building her practice,
*Got her away from her peer groups so that she could understand what she was missing by taking her to soccer games and recitals,
*Cramming the lesson relentlessly that her credentials were meaningless when it came to our interpersonal relationship,
*That all of lifes issues couldn't be treated like we were one of her patients, and finally
*That if she wanted to continue to have a healthy relationship with her husband and children she had to treat us as priority one by calling if but for a minute on her cell to her kids and I.

There's more improvement needed and she has a long way to go both professionally and in our relationship but its survivable. More importantly the benifit doesn't have to singularly be hers it can be yours as well. If needed email me at bkony52@aol.com.

[PrincessFiona]

Resources....

Would any of the guys like to take charge of setting up a web page for the Mr. MDs, writing some articles or helping set up some resources to help other men who are supporting female physicians? It is hard for me to create any good resources and I get a lot of emails from men looking for help.

If you would prefer, we could even set up a separate phpbb for the guys...


Kris

[fluffhead]

Isolation

We live in an apartment building largely inhabited by residents and their families. Though I'm not the only male spouse, I believe that I'm the only SAHD. So sometimes I take my kid down to play with other kids (there are none her age, so she plays with older kids mostly).

Today she was playing with one girl, and I was chatting with her mom, when another mom came by with her kids. We went down the hall, where the newly arrived mom invited the other mom and her kid into their apartment with her, and me and baby were left in the hall.

Now I totally understand where this is coming from - discomfort with having a male in the house when husband is away, or whatever, but this is what I'm talking about when I say that the SAHD experience can be somewhat isolating.

In fact, I'm about to give it up - after we move (in June), I'm going to start working again, at least part time.

[PrincessFiona]

no WAY!!!!

8O

Wow...I'm just so shocked...that must be really hard to deal with..it's hard enough being a stay-at-home parent, but it must feel very isolating to be excluded like that!!! I'm so sorry that that happened....you have definately opened up our eyes here about these things....if anything, we are all becoming much more sensitive to this issue!

Kris

Sorry to hear that happened to you. I know how it feels, our neighbor is a SAHM and is very kind when our kids are playing, but as soon as other mothers show up, we are cast out.
Far and few between are there any days that go by that I don't get some kind of reaction from either men or women about being a SAHD. Be it the courteous "oh that is great" from most the women, to the sexist remark from many men wether they are actually thinking about what they are saying or not.
I have been doing this for almost 3 years, and will keep doing it until or next is into some type of schooling.
Glad to hear that someone is getting back into the grown-up world!!

I was a SAHD for 7 years. My wife and I decided that I would stay at home for a while after she finished her residency. (we found it to be a nightmare trying to find decent day care) We had two children at the time.
Well, that little while turned out to be 7 years. I've alway's focused on the wellbeing of my children. Yes, I felt somewhat isolated. If I felt uncomfortable in situations around SAHM's, I didn't let it bother me. My focus was on my kids. My problem in those days was not having an adult to talk to most of the day. When my wife got home from listening to other people's problems all day she often didn't feel like talking much.
Gotta go pick up my youngest from vollyball practice...........I'll be back. I'd like to yap some more......................

I totally relate to the need for adult conversation. I suppose that is why I am around here as much as I am! Luckily, my 3yr old still takes afternoon naps. I am usually typing away as fast as I can after reading many things on this site.
My wife generally comes home and is ready to go to bed. If she stays up, she plays with our son and then goes to bed! Leaves me a little sour, but I think about all the hours that she puts in along with all the headaches of dealing with other residents, interns, attendings and hopsital policies and I try to cut slack. It is hard though.
Just thought I would sound off!

I think it totally sucked that you were excluded. But I'd like to offer an explanation. Perhaps in the interest of propriety, she felt like it wouldn't "look good" if she took a male into her home even if he was with a child. Personally I think anyone who invests their time and energy into the welfare of their child(ren) gets the thumbs up from me, but we also have to consider whether or not we would look like we're doing anything improper. I've exchanged phone numbers with a few moms on this website and would exchange my number with you guys too if I didn't think somehow it wasn't improper or crossing some invisible line. You never intend anything to happen but you never know.

I don't see too many males alone with children when I go to the park or I'd be right there making conversation. Male or female, if they look like they can talk more than 2 syllables at a time, I'd be all over over them (not literally of course). But inviting them over to my house would be a different story. Anway, I just want to say to you guys that I think it's great you're at home with your kids and yes, it's isolating. I don't even have that many mom friends I get together with and the ones that I do - they're hardly even friends. I think if it weren't for the fact that our kids were about the same ages, I'd probably never even know them.

[fluffhead]

Yes, and I can totally understand where she's coming from.
It's just kind of sucks, that's all.