Best time to have kids?

[peony]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Hey everyone! It's nice to check back and always see new and thoughtful replies.

For the record, children would *definitely* come first for us, and I know my husband would agree. Part of me feels a guilty now because I left a career where part-time work would've been very doable (as you might have read in my intro, I was 3 yrs into a 6-yr clinical psychology PhD program), but I feel very strongly that medicine is a good match for me, and I'm so excited about it. I also mentioned in my intro that there is a good (at least 50%) chance that my husband would do consulting or research instead of a residency--he's more research based--so hopefully that would have better hrs than residency.

Finally, this may sound a little weird, but if we were put in a situation where he did enter the match and we ended up at different schools I think it would actually be better if we had kids. I am NOT willing to live in different cities anyway, and instead of having 1, 2 or more years to kill waiting to go to med school, I could be a SAHM during that time. I am most concerned about that first yr or so with a little baby, and I would likely apply and defer a yr anyway if I got pregnant soon. I am starting med school later in life anyway so rushing through everything is not important to me, but I also don't think I could wait 15 yrs or more until all my kids are in HS to start my career. I sure wish there was some sort of intermediate though, like going to school part-time (alas!).

I've been talking more seriously with my DH about starting to TTC around July of next yr (so I'd give birth at the earliest around April, after med school interviews), and his reaction really made me feel like it's the best decision for us. He is unbelievably excited, patting my stomach and the "future baby," and he even said that his current rotation has become way more bearable because during his downtime he can daydream about being a dad. Don't get me wrong, we know that having kids is going to make things much, much harder and totally change our lives but like I said earlier, we are determined to make this work.

[poky]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Finally, this may sound a little weird, but if we were put in a situation where he did enter the match and we ended up at different schools I think it would actually be better if we had kids. I am NOT willing to live in different cities anyway, and instead of having 1, 2 or more years to kill waiting to go to med school, I could be a SAHM during that time.

What are you smoking? Seriously. Slow down. Don't underestimate those cute little babies or what it means to be a family. :run:

I'm confused. What peony said made sense to me. The way I read it, she's saying if they got accepted in different places, she'd be putting off starting school anyway, because she's not willing to do LD, so if she had something to DO while she waited to try again the next year (or two) - like take care of their kids - then it'd be easier on her than just sitting around waiting...

did I miss something?

[Flynn]

Re: Best time to have kids?

If you want babies and medicine then go for it. Like Janet said, it can be done and I do know some couples that do it very well. But those couples will also tell you that they and their children make HUGE sacrifices. There are a million little things that won't be possible and that you just cannot anticipate until you have children. Summers will be hard, children get sick (yes, you can have a nanny but the pull you will feel is unimaginable), babies for the most part are pretty easy but once the kids hit school you will have play dates, soccer, dance lessons, etc. You CAN have a wonderful career and your children can have a wonderful life but the nanny will be shuttling your children or they will be in after care at school and not be able to take advantage of these things.

This is NOT an argument for you to not pursue your goal, you should totally go for it, but on your way it is best to have your eyes open as much as possible. I wish you all the best and I hope you realize that we are a supportive group here but an honest one.

Well said Tara.

[peony]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Thanks, planet for your inspiring example! It's good to know those cases do exist. Our situation sounds very similar to your friends' except that it would be reversed. Do you happen to remember at what point in their careers the parents had their children?

Pollyanna, I definitely think this thread has switched from "when is the best time to have kids?" to "do you REALLY want to go to med school?" But it's good to hear the feedback! As I mentioned, my mom was a SAHM to 4 and my DH's mom was a single mom to 3 with very demanding job (dad was mostly out of the picture), and we both had fairly positive experiences. In fact, he's so enthusiastic about the fact that his mom worked that sometimes it's hard for him to see the other side. He found it very inspiring to see her work hard and excel at her career and never really wished for her to stay at home full-time (they had European au pairs, which he enjoyed for the most part). Of course it wasn't perfect 100% of the time, but neither was it for my mom. She often felt overwhelmed, lonely, isolated, and that she was losing her sense of identity. My parents also had a bad marriage, which didn't help.

I mentioned that if I had to pick one thing, it would 100% be kids. I've wanted to be a mom since elementary school, and babysitting my friends' kids or just being around kids is one of my very favorite things to do. I'm the person who specifically sits next to babies on airplanes because even though there is good chance they'll be screaming during some of the flight, I am also likely to make friends with their parents and get to hold them (screaming or nonscreaming!) for a bit. So in light of that, maybe it makes no sense that I would have a career period, much less a demanding career. But, I also can really see some really good reasons that I'll want to carve out a seperate piece of my life that is incredibly fulfilling and has nothing to do with my family, and I'm really excited about that.

So many of you are giving me the great advice that I should think about what I really want, but I know so many people who are SURE that they want to be SAHMs or working moms before they have kids and radically change their minds afterwards. I just feel like maybe I'll never know until I'm IN the situation. What do you guys think?

P.S. Is the general consensus about timing that it truly doesn't matter because the challenges will be equally great no matter what the timing?

[planet]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Thanks, planet for your inspiring example! It's good to know those cases do exist. Our situation sounds very similar to your friends' except that it would be reversed. Do you happen to remember at what point in their careers the parents had their children?

Whoa. The cases, of double doc fam with kids and of help getting into med school exist, but note that those are two examples (seperately btw) when I know of waaaay more of divorces, long distance relationships from either unsuccessful matching or different med schools, and even in the case of those we know now with kids, it was a VERY hard road. I can't say that they would do it again. I mean HARD. Tara is right, the sacrifices are immense. The medical path is LONG and frought with potential pitfalls. FWIW, I believe they had their kids AFTER she finished her residency. I just wanted to point out that these things are possible, but note that my examples are from different cases in seven years of observation on this road.

And I'm with Annie, don't underestimate the tug of kids.

Re: Best time to have kids?

In fact, he's so enthusiastic about the fact that his mom worked that sometimes it's hard for him to see the other side. He found it very inspiring to see her work hard and excel at her career and never really wished for her to stay at home full-time (they had European au pairs, which he enjoyed for the most part). Of course it wasn't perfect 100% of the time, but neither was it for my mom. She often felt overwhelmed, lonely, isolated, and that she was losing her sense of identity. My parents also had a bad marriage, which didn't help.

And what you cannot know, even if she's hinted at it, is the pull you'll feel when returning to work and leaving your kids in the hands of the nanny, au pair, daycare ... whomever. For some people it's hard, others it hits you like a ton of bricks. And then when they're sick and all they want is their mommy and you STILL have to go take care of other sick people - leaving that situation can make you feel 2 inches tall.

As most of us said - it CAN be done, but you need to be realistic about what you AND your kids will be sacrificing and decide if having the "super-fulfilling career" is worth it. I'm kind of blown away by the

I mentioned that if I had to pick one thing, it would 100% be kids.

There is a whole lot of middle ground between med-school / residency / board exam hell & SAHM. If you expect that having and parenting kids will be THAT important in your life, then gunning toward the high-holy goal of MD because you'd prefer "autonomy" is not a choice I can understand.

[houseelf]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Perhaps the best resource for you is http://www.MomMD.com. I think this will be a wealth of information for you.

Kelly

[Auspicious]

Re: Best time to have kids?

P.S. Is the general consensus about timing that it truly doesn't matter because the challenges will be equally great no matter what the timing?

I, for one, don't believe that. I think there are better and worse times to have a baby, but that those times will differ from couple to couple based on what else they have going on in their lives besides medical training. One person's best and most ideal time would be another person's nightmare (like we aimed for the middle of PGY1, and for most medical families that's the one time they would most try to avoid).

I wouldn't say that the timing doesn't matter, I think it matters but will be different for everyone.

[DCJenn]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Exactly-

In fact, we adopted Nikolai smack dab in the middle of the worst year of fellowship. Not something I'd recommend but when they tell you to go to Russia, you go.

Jenn

[Ladybug122]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Hello Again! I just finished reading all the posts, and I'm going to ask a dumb question (maybe the answers are somewhere, but there are so many responses....). If your DH is an MS3, what type of residency is he looking for? Why not just put off your med school until after he's done with residency? Then you'll have more $, he'll be around more while your in school/residency, you'll be able to be around your kids while they're small, but still not wait 15 years. Sounds to me like this may be your best option.

I agree with the opinion that "you can do it, but do you want to?"

And do your in-laws truly understand what type of commitment they would be making to your family? I know all grandparents are different, but I know neither my dad, nor my in-laws would want to potentially provide up to 80 hours a week of childcare (maybe more, maybe less, but probably not).

Peony, don't misunderstand me, I'm all for families and I'm all for careers, but this particular situation seems a little too optimistic.

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Best time to have kids?

I'm a SAHM. It is hard at times, and you do feel like you lose your identity. I struggle with wondering if my college education is a total waste, since what I usually do is "just to take care of little kids". THen I go to the park, and see the "international nannies" in the ritzy of ritzy parts of suburban DC. THey do fine. THe kids look healthy, well-dressed, and appropriately clean. The nannies look somewhat interested in their jobs. But... there's no way a nanny would ever do what I do for my kids. They wouldn't be as invested.

So, is my college education wasted? Is my natural drive to academically succeed wasted? I was the top GPA in my college. I took masters chem classes during my junior year. I had enough masters credits to get a MS, but didn't do a thesis and so didn't bother. Most of my science classes have "expired" so to go back now (I'm 31) and continue my education, I'd probably have to retake some stuff.

I still don't know what I will do career wise ever, but I can't accept that my education is wasted. I am a total Type A person. The mundane of parenting is hard, but I can't relinquish this control to someone else, whether it be relatives, or a hired nanny. That's just me, that's just life.

As far as our life now, we are early in on the training- my husband is an intern. He did go into a "family friendly" field. I think that "family friendly" is a big hoax, though. Because even though he's in one of the "nicest" surgical specialties, he's still going to miss about 95% of our kids' lives. For the non-surgical "family friendly" things, you can't bank on the hours being pleasant, either.

Finally, in my experience raising a baby is hard, preschoolers are fun (but up and down), early school is golden, and middle school and beyond is... :angeldevil: every day. I always thought it would "get easier" once I got through "this stage". Once they were more "independent". Once they could "make their own snack", or "get themselves dressed." This just isn't the case. Planning on being a SAHM for 1 or 2 years is great, really, but I wouldn't call those years the most important. Not at all, at least in my experience.

So, I guess it depends on how involved you want to be. For instance, if you are a med student or a resident, you probably will not be there much in the morning to get things going on that end, and you will probably miss the homework/play time in the after school time frame. You will probably make bath time and bedtime(as a med student most of the time, as an intern rarely, as a resident, depends). You will miss most of the mundane tasks. But you will have plenty of mundane tasks in your career- medicine is not all scintillating.

Then, as far as getting pg, well, the only time my husband and I tried we ended up trying really hard for 10 months, at which point we got pregnant with twins.

I'm sorry that this isn't very supportive at all. My husband's medical career and I are in a bit of a funk right now- I'm a tad bit resentful so that's where I'm writing from today....

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Best time to have kids?

I know that was harsh, but think on this: These are things my husband missed due to Medical school, and rotations:

1) The twins' first day of Kindergarten
2) All parent teacher conferences (I have to get a sitter to attend) (he's never been to 1)
3) Virtually every milestone of our youngest son's first year (he was a MS-2 to MS-3 then
4) The twins' birthdays for age 2, 4, and 5 (he was away on rotations/training for 4 & 5)
5) Our anniversaries

And now, due to residency (again, we are newbies)
1) For preschool: donuts for dads
2) First day of school, of course.
3) Dinner with the family- misses this about 5 days a week
4) Soccer games- he's missed about half the season
5) Saying good night to the youngest (who has to go to bed by 8 at the lates)- misses it at least 5 times/week (that means he doesn't see our son for 5 days of the week)
6) Saying good night to the other kids- he misses that about 3 times a week (they go to bed a little later)
7) Our pathetic date night (watching a DVD at home) has ceased
8) His one-on-one time with the kids has completely stopped

My husband is a very family-oriented guy. He hates being away- he doesn't look for more work to do, but he is only released when his chief resident tells him he can go.

So, for your life, Can you live with missing all these milestones for your kids?

I just find that medicine is unyielding, and that most docs do have kids, and aren't going to cut you a break so that you can "be with your kids".

[Flynn]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Peggy, the above post is incredibly informative. What a brilliant way to articulate how much your DH's family means to him BUT as you said medicine is "unyielding." I'm sure you guys did everything possible to make the above list smaller than it is.

Bravo.
Your post is not critical -- just factual and to the point.

Nobody who isn't IN a medical marriage can really "understand" what it's like.
Your list of "family events missed" is as close as it gets.

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Thanks Flynn- I'm not usually so blunt, but I felt compelled...

I find it fascinating how many of the spouses here themselves had ambitions to be doctors!

[alison]

Re: Best time to have kids?

Thanks for your list, Peggy. It really drives this all home! We don't have kids, but I do remember I had a friend in second grade whose parents were both physicians. He once told me he wanted to bring his dad to school for show and tell, because he'd never been there.