Ugh This Child!!

[SoonerTexan]

Is driving me insane. We were making good progress in getting him to start sleeping in the crib and 3 weeks ago it went to hell for whatever reason. He is 8 months tomorrow

He's always spent a lot of the time in the evenings on my back and now that seems to be the only way to get him to sleep. I used to be able to transfer him to the crib, but now as soon as I take him off he is awake. I'm not sure where to start. Both of my children have an uncanny ability to stay awake super late and CIO isn't an option for him even though he is older now---it would just piss him off.

He takes 2 catnaps between 8-11 pm but wakes up to eat. I'm wondering if he is hungry all evening? I think he is reverse cycling. He will go down for the night around 11 but wakes up again around 1. He nurses 1-2 times but sleeps pretty solidly...with me...until 8.

I don't mind him sleeping with me but I can't get anything done in the evening and having him on my back constantly is getting old. I just want him to go down in the crib until that 1 am wake up and then I'm fine with him being in our bed (prefer actually given the nursing)

The kid is ridiculous though. All he wants is me, even in his sleep. I try handing him off to DH and he flips out, even though he is asleep. HOW DOES HE KNOW?!

Should I just try rocking him? Make DH do it? Try a different feeding setup?

On the bright side, N was using DH as a stuffed animal to go to sleep every night and I decided I was tired of it (hell for me to get her to sleep when he is on nights and it meant he was unavailable after her bedtime or putting her to sleep way too late) and she is doing FANTASTIC going to bed on her own now. So proud of her.

[SoonerTexan]

The beast in his happy place

[ladymoreta]

He's so precious!!

You're definitely dealing with sleep associations, so the question is what you want/are willing to do about them. I think the best way to handle it is to put him to sleep for the night at 8:00, instead of letting him catnap, and keep him in relatively the same place from bedtime until morning. (So if you want to continue cosleeping, you might put him to bed in a pack & play right beside your bed until you go to bed, when he can join you.) Going from his crib in his room into your bed in your room is probably too different for him to realize that it's still bedtime.

You don't have to do CIO, but you will need to be firm about it being bedtime. When he wakes up, if he's hungry, he can nurse with a very boring mommy who doesn't speak to him or make eye contact. She will feed him and rock him back to sleep, (and maybe play on her phone ) but that's it. I remember sitting for hours with both kids after "bedtime" with them being wide awake and trying all their cutest tricks to get me to play. Nope, Mommy is uninterested after bedtime.

[SoonerTexan]

Ugh I was afraid you would say that. I really want to make DH do it! I don't have those hours to give right now, hence the carrier and getting myself into this mess in the first place.

The problem with the catnaps is he is wide awake after for awhile. It's awful. I think he needs to go to sleep later, like 9:30-10 but he is always losing it before then

[ladymoreta]

*feeling like a hypocrite giving sleep advice when my 4-year-old just woke me up*

He is probably overtired by 9:30 or 10:00, and that's where the "losing it" comes from. We have always had to have a very static bedtime routine - same order of events, every night. It's long, about 45 minutes even with DH helping. Milk, bath, lotion, books, prayer, song. By the end of it, their brain is signaling that it's bedtime, even when we move bedtime earlier by as much as 30-45 minutes. If you do a long bedtime routine, you have to start about half an hour before they usually start acting sleepy, or they will become overtired and hit an energy burst before you're done.

I totally understand the not having time or being ready to change anything right now. If your DH can do it, that's great. If not, don't beat yourself up over it. He's doing fine, and he's healthy. Make changes when you are ready and able to follow through.

[Pollyanna]

Have your dh do it. Seriously, baby J is old enough to sleep through the night without nursing, I doubt he is hungry, he is likely nursing to comfort himself (dd2 would still nurse through the night if we let her). Put dh in charge from 8pm till 4am. Your dh will have to be strong and not give up but your sweet boy will get the hang of things. Our babies always go back to sleep much faster with dh than with me, even from a full "I want mommy" scream

I agree that he is likely WAAAAAY overtired. Kiddos can stay up very late if you let them but it makes putting them to sleep and having them stay asleep much much harder. All our kiddos could easily stay awake until midnight or later but when they finally went down they slept horrible and not as long as they should. Put to bed in the 7-8 o"clock hour resulted in much happier better sleeping babies. I would say that the bedtime routine needs to start no later than 7:30-8:00. Daddy is in charge of bed (unless on call). The call screws things up but if you both do the same routine that does help.

[spotty_dog]

*feeling like a hypocrite giving sleep advice when my 4-year-old just woke me up*

He is probably overtired by 9:30 or 10:00, and that's where the "losing it" comes from. We have always had to have a very static bedtime routine - same order of events, every night. It's long, about 45 minutes even with DH helping. Milk, bath, lotion, books, prayer, song. By the end of it, their brain is signaling that it's bedtime, even when we move bedtime earlier by as much as 30-45 minutes. If you do a long bedtime routine, you have to start about half an hour before they usually start acting sleepy, or they will become overtired and hit an energy burst before you're done.

Mary Sheedy Kurcinka calls this the "glide path to sleep". You don't park a 747 by turning the engine off at 10,000 feet. You slow it down...decrease altitude...touch down softly.

I totally understand the not having time or being ready to change anything right now. If your DH can do it, that's great. If not, don't beat yourself up over it. He's doing fine, and he's healthy. Make changes when you are ready and able to follow through.

Agree completely. My worst phases for sleep were when I was fighting it, watching the clock, despairing that this child would ever sleep. If it helps, I have a little boy who will be 8 years old in a few days and never cried it out or was systematically sleep trained. At about 8 months I was so desperate for him to sleep alone that I would climb IN to the crib with him to try to nurse and shush and pat him to sleep from there and then sneak away when he was deeply asleep. But despite those extremes, do you know what? Not only does he not nurse all night any more, in fact he hasn't for over 6 years, but his bedtime routine is super simple; I can tell him to go to bed at 8:30 and he will...go to bed. And stay there. (It's gotten more complicated lately, he insists on staying up to read Harry Potter for 15-20 minutes so I have to remember to go remind him to turn his light off...)

But yes, after bedtime mama is boring mama and lights do NOT go on no matter how bored you get sitting in the dark. Phone at low brightness would be about the extent of my bending on this point. Gotta give his circadian rhythm the clear signal that it's time for sleeping.

[spotty_dog]

Photo evidence! DS was 7.5 months and I remember taking this photo in complete and total awe that the boy was actually NAPPING in his CRIB. (It may have been the first and last time, but I did eventually get him in his crib for night semi-regularly by the time his sister came along.) I remember this being a tough time, I think because they're crawling and pulling up and super aware of their surroundings as well as having a little bit of anxiety about separating from people by crawling away from them.

[SoonerTexan]

He is probably overtired by 9:30 or 10:00, and that's where the "losing it" comes from.

I dunno. He isn't a good napper and that is part of the problem. He sleeps in til 8 (or sometimes later) with no problem, though. We are all night owls in this family, kids included. It works for us because the kids get to see DH a lot more and except for the whole "baby on the back constantly" thing, we don't mind having them hang with us in the evening. They are generally in good moods and enjoy the quality time. I don't think a bedtime earlier than 9-9:30 is going to work, but I think that WOULD be a good time for him if I can get him to stay asleep. It just isn't feasible to do it earlier because DH doesn't get home til 6:30 or later most days and he would pretty much be coming home and diving straight into bedtime. I like that intern year hasn't really killed their relationship with their dad so far. It really hasn't been too bad.

That, and I prefer my kids sleep later. I don't usually get up til 7-7:30. I have to stay up til midnight in order to get everything I need done and log some work time (if I'm lucky). I will DIE if I create a bunch of early risers who are cranky and in need of mommy at 6 am or earlier. Right now they wake up (or I wake them up) between 7:45-8:15 with enough time for me to dress them, feed them, kiss them and be on my way.

Now when I'm staying home and N has to go to preschool/kindergarten, things will likely shift towards an earlier bedtime/earlier wakeup for everyone.

Have your dh do it. Seriously, baby J is old enough to sleep through the night without nursing, I doubt he is hungry, he is likely nursing to comfort himself

I'm not sure--I think he is actually getting most of his milk in the evenings or at night lately. He's never been big on the bottles during the day and the transition to solids has been a little difficult. He is still only okay with purees and even then occasionally there is gagging and vomiting. Sometimes he will only take 4-5oz from the sitter from 8am-6pm and is ravenous when I get home. At this age N was going gung ho on the solids, but J just isn't there yet. I've asked the nanny to try and give him as much milk as possible, but he just wont take it. My sister/mom/DH have confirmed it. He's holding out for me. Once he gets better at eating I'll be okay trying to pull back more--with N I did this by wearing a shirt at night

In general, though, we prefer he sleeps with us until the first night waking (hopefully around 1 am). He sleeps better, we sleep better. The nursing at night doesn't bother me at all. I also like the physical closeness given I'm gone all day. N did the same thing and getting her out of our bed wasn't the hard part...it was the initial "go to sleep in your own bed" battle.

I do think DH needs to start doing the bedtime battle with BabyJ though. It's going to be so hard on them both :/ I almost wonder if we should just wait 2 more months. At that age N was able to understand more of what we were doing. J just isn't there yet. I'll start working on routines now, though.

[SoonerTexan]

Ugh This Child!!

We were doing great for a few weeks and then it just tanked about 2 weeks ago when he got a cold.

I don't even know where to begin now. He keeps getting worse. He will never ever let me put him down in the crib now. Only next to DH in our bed when he is deeply asleep. He wants to pretty much be held the whole freakin night now where as before he was happy just sleeping with us. I even tried letting him scream yesterday and it was a disaster. There is no way that will work but I don't even know how to get him to stay in the crib at all.

To top it off, he climbed on me and pawed at me ALL NIGHT yesterday. Wasn't happy unless he was in my arms and even then. I can't stand it anymore. Overstimulated to the max. I know he is needy and I'm willing to let him sleep with us, but I can't handle this level of needy

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417362313.741396.jpg

This was after I yelled at him to leave me alone this morning :/ the weird thing is I think he got it because he backed off for 5 min after that.

[scrub-jay]

I highly recommend the Good Night, Sleep Tight book. My kids would never have let me do true CIO, but this system worked for both of them.

[ladymoreta]

It sounds like a good time to sleep train him to stay in the crib. You can absolutely do it without doing CIO. No Cry Sleep Solution is a really good place to start. I hate to say it, but cosleeping just doesn't seem to be working for him. :-/

[ladymoreta]

I highly recommend the Good Night, Sleep Tight book. My kids would never have let me do true CIO, but this system worked for both of them.

I think the method we used was really similar to this.

[SoonerTexan]

Do those books allow for some night nursing? I'm afraid to try and stop him from giving that up because he holds out for me during they day and rarely takes more than one bottle. He usually nurses at midnight and not again til 6 tjough

[ladymoreta]

Absolutely. I night nursed and never coslept. The main point is to not let him fall asleep while nursing. He has to be awake when he goes back to bed.