Yet another...

[Cumberland]

Re: Yet another...

On the toys subject- I know some mom's of 4yos like my DD who buy them Bratz stuff and Hannah Montana. Bratz stuff kills me, I think it is so inappropriate.

We still only watch PBS kids and playhouse Disney, and occasionally Nick Jr - I always turn it off during the commercials so she doesnt really know about a lot of toys.

[Phoebe]

Re: Yet another...

This is a little off topic, but still related to kids growing up too fast. I am not about the Bratz dolls either. I have wanted to throw the TV out lately. For reasons like these....

My husband bought Special K bars at Costco (don't ask me why). DD, 6 years old, noticed them and also saw a commerical for them on TV. She then asked me if eating one would make her tummy smaller. :mmm: She obviously got the gist of the commercial. I don't even know where she would have seen that commerical unless it was when DH was watching TV. Channels on my watch don't run that kind of commercial.

She was then concerned about her appearance. Her questions were going in a direction I didn't even want to go at her age. I explained that one bar wouldn't make her tummy smaller, that healthy eating, keeps you healthy. My daughter doesn't need a poor body image at 6 years old.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

Finding acceptable clothing is a huge issue for us too. I second the target suggestion for boys polo-style shirts as well as Land's End. I like some of the slogan t-shirts though. Andrew has one that says "I wish my sister had a mute button" :>

Since this has become a discussion though, I have to throw this out there:

What will you do when your child enters adolescence and being 'in' makes the difference between the status of social outcast/misery and a more smooth/happy time? Gymboree is easy when they are 7...what about when they are 11 and 12?

I was never crazy about the 'Bratz' dolls either, but when every other child has them...when there are 'bratz' sleepovers and each child is supposed to bring their own doll...do you forbid your daughter from going?

I also think make-up parties are a terrible idea for little girls (and I refused to do them...though it retrospect, I think I should have for my daughter's sake)...if the big thing in 3rd grade is to have a make-over party or a hairstylist party (which it was when Amanda was in 3rd grade) do you buck the system, make your kid feel like an outcast and do the swimming party? I did. I wish I hadn't....I wish I had done the hairstylist party....

Do you decide for them that the parents of their friends are clearly subpar for allowing Bratz, Aeropastale or make-over parties and so now they can't be friends with these children...or be exposed to these things...or talk about them?

It all sounds so simple. Just don't buy the clothes, right? Don't buy the dolls, right? Throw out the TV...block u-tube...and there will be no issues.

But in reality, it isn't that easy.

We caved on the Aeropastale shirts/camis last year and honestly, it was the best move I ever made for my daughter. It's sad, but...it's the way things are. Up until that time I had refused to buy things like Etny (spelling?) shoes or brand name clothes. I wanted to keep my daughter small...I bought her polo-style shirts, cute girl clothes that weren't too frilly but were...appropriate in my mind's eye...and she became a social outcast the second she hit the middle school door. It was terrible and it really is SAD that what finally helped her towards the middle/end of the year was buying her some cool clothes to help her fit in.

I don't like that...but at the same time, nowadays only the kids who sit at the (I'm sorry) loser table are wearing polo style shirts in middle school (oh, and I was one of them in junior high) Allowing my daughter to have some Bratz dolls and wear aeropastale sadly helped her fit in and feel more at ease in social groups. I honestly wish now that I had not been so uptight about all of it earlier. Maybe she would have felt like she fit in a lot sooner.

It stinks, but without the 'right' duds, you run into the problem of your child becoming a social outcast.

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw the experience out there of a mom who might have been standing next to you in Aeropastale buying a shirt and cami for her kid. There is just nothing easy about parenting.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

Oh...just wanted to add that this is clearly a hot-button topic for our house lately. Finding a balance between what is 'cool' and what I consider appropriate has been very difficult. I don't want my child to feel like an outcast...but I don't want her to look trashy either. Everything has changed so much for us since our two older kids started entering the fuzzy area of tweendom/teendom. Man...Andrew went from wearing ties in the first grade because he loved them so much to us not being able to peel him out of his ratty clothes. Amanda moved on from Gymboree to 'anything but'.

eeeek.

[houseelf]

Re: Yet another...

I think you hit the nail on the head. Controlling what an eight year old and a twelve year old wears/does/is exposed to are ENTIRELY different things. Don't feel bad about any of these things, we all have to find our own comfort level.

We don't do bratz (house rules) but someone here mentioned that a young girl who was having a High School Musical party. I can see the issue, but my daughter loves HSM and has a t-shirt. She dances with her guitar to all the songs. I don't find it objectionable, but I can see where it may appear to be permitting her one step closer to tweendom, hair and makeup, and boy craziness. Also, DD loves her Hello Kitty make believe makeup set. At the same time, I make sure my daughter knows how to get down and dirty in the forest, use the port-a-pot, and kick a soccer ball. I honestly want to give her as wide a view of womanhood as possible.

These issues are so difficult because where is the line between letting them play dressup like we did as a child to pandering to society's ills. I think that we each have to decide our comfort level in the context of the community that we live.

I too feel like I am more liberal than some of my parenting peers, so I get what you are saying. I've had parents blanche when I tell them that my former 7 year old had read and seen all the Harry Potters and Star Wars, including the PG13s. I also have yet to censor any book that he has picked up, a practice which I know is NOT common amongst some of my parenting peers. If it is bloody, gory, disgusting, or gross, it probably appeals to him. (Although he hasn't asked to see Playboy yet so perhaps this isn't a fair assessment. )

I think that this conversation generally lamented the sad direction of our society and how we have to carefully navigate the landmines of social ills directed at our children every day. Fortunately, at eight I can put my foot down and say no goth look. I'm not quite so sure that this is the battle that I even will want to pick at 13. There are no easy answers.

Parenting is NOT for sissies.

Kelly

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

Parenting is NOT for sissies.

Kelly

I think this explains why I'm having so many problems! And if it makes you feel worse, I ran into a mom this weekend who has a 6th grader who has banned highschool musical in her house. I was afraid to confess that ummm...even...I liked highschool musical.

So many people have so many different ideas of what good parenting is that it boggles the mind.

I guess I'm just taken back to my own childhood...and...my parents were very strict about what we were and were not allowed to watch. As a result, I was shockingly naive about a lot of the things that my peers were talking about and it added to my social woes. Then I went to a sleepover birthday party and we were permitted to watch 'Footloose'. Back then, it was rated PG (there was no PG-13), I think. I was in the 8th grade and when my mom found out about it, she flipped out. She called the girls' mom and the girl found out...it was a social....quagmire.

What's funny to me though is that I used to watch Dukes of Hazzard with my dad and my younger brother when I was in 4th or 5th grade. That is waaaaay worse than Footloose.

Also, my mom wouldn't let me wear black or anything that wasn't girly. When I left home, I totally rebelled and wore black for a year. I even..ummm...dyed my hair black...which was a total disaster because somehow the back ended up green and I had to get my hair cut short. (I guess my mom got the last laugh there too. )

Kris

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

I think the difficulty is not in avoiding certain clothes or toys but in raising children that have enough sense of self to wear what they feel good in, not to fit in with the social norms. Not saying that we are there but it is something that I strive for on a daily basis. It is a difficult balancing act. I am lucky that our 14year old (when did that happen ) likes jeans and fitted t-shirts and no make-up. Now I'm sure some people think, "why would her mother let her wear a tight t-shirt". Honestly, because she likes her style, feels good about herself, and I just don't have a problem with it. High school will be easy since they have to wear a uniform consisting of a polo shirt and khaki pants.

Amanda wears shirts with camis underneath them. You can't see anything naughty...everything is covered...the colors are soft and she feels good about herself. I do not think that she looks inappropriate, or I wouldn't let her out the door. Her style is actually quite...nice. She has a good sense of what things goes together and sometimes I let her get into my closet and help me put things together to give her a boost.

But because she is wearing a 'cami'...it's an issue for the schools. Oh...and two weeks ago they called because they felt her shirt was too tight.

Her level of comfort for those clothes might be dictated by her peer interactions...but that is not a failure on my part that I'm willing to take on anymore. I'm way past the blame the parents thing...whether it be self-protection or not. I won't tell myself that her desire to wear clothing is because I haven't raised her to feel good about who she is (not that I necessarily think you are saying this...it is a general message by moms....we all seem to seek to place blame with each other for the shortcomings of each others' children...and I've done it too.). I believe that I've done the best that I can and that it might be a bit of an oversimplificatin to say that parents should just inject their kids with enough self-esteem to get them through teasing, bullying, etc. It just isn't that easy....There are so many influences and all children are different. My 13 year old and 9 year old just let everything roll right off of their backs. Actually, my 9 year old has to be the most happy, go-lucky kid I've ever met. I can't...take credit for that either! It's just who he is...or maybe...I'm a failure with Amanda but a success with Alex....I don't know. I prefer to put my head in the sand for about 16 more years and hope for the best at this point.

Just so you know, this post isn't directed at any particular comments or person...I'm just thinking through a lot of things lately in regards to my kids.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

Parenting is NOT for sissies.

Kelly

I think this explains why I'm having so many problems! And if it makes you feel worse, I ran into a mom this weekend who has a 6th grader who has banned highschool musical in her house. I was afraid to confess that ummm...even...I liked highschool musical.

Kris

I'm confused with banning of High School Musical. :huh: I think it's just good wholesome fun. I'd even watch it by myself and I'm just as excited as my kids to see Camp Rock this summer.

So someone please explain to me why HSM is bad for kids, I just don't get it? :huh:

Me TOO. There are no drugs, there is nothing inappropriate.... I thought it was the most wholesome show that has been put out in a long time. I don't know if the mom just didn't see the shows, or what. Truly, I didn't engage her in a conversation about it...she clearly had her own opinions and I walked away. I would also add that her daughter has her issues too. :>

I want to see Camp Rock this summer too!

ETA: Actually, I'm seeming to remember that her kids aren't allowed to watch tv at all...that is how the conversation got started....it evolved into a discussion that included highschool musical...now...it's coming back to me.

[Momo]

Re: Yet another...

I have never seen the movie HSM, obviously my kids are very young!

Is it a love story/ crush story?
Is there pairing up of the opposite sexes?
Dating/going steady themes?
Competition for the affection/attention of a girl or a boy?
Is there kissing, any suggestive dance moves?


They were excited about the movie we saw last night "The Wonder Pets save the Beeteles!"

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

There is nothing that I saw about HSM that was inappropriate...but perhaps I'm used to more..hard core disney flicks. I love the music, etc...it just feels so...happy.

Tara...I didn't think your words were directed at me....again...I'm just sort of pondering my feelings/thoughts about this whole parenting thing and this thread played into it. It all feels like so MUCH sometimes and it seems like when I feel like I have one issue all figured out then something else comes up....

Hmmm...parenting teens is like a long game of...wack-a-mole!

It does feel like there is jugment out there...especially from Amanda's school. I have gotten more phone calls about stuff like the tight shirt thing... She started this thing where she wears a t-shirt under a shirt...then she uses a clip to pull the over-shirt up so that on the top you see the overshit and beneath you see the colored t-shirt.

Personally...I think it looks a little odd...but there isn't anything inappropriate about it. They didn't like that the top shirt was pulled back and it looked a little 'snug'.

:huh:

That wasn't her intention. She's trying to make a fashion statement of sorts....The top wasn't too tight.

The most recent thing is that she got busted for having a conversation with her friends in 'text' language...IDK, OMG....etc.

Irony here is that she has no cell phone and we have no instant messaging on our kid computer. Also....she has been banned from said computer for a month for sass.

I got a call this morning (I'm changing my number ) that this text talk has to stop. It is 'inappropriate' etc. Though I sympathize and I will reinforce the school's rule when I pick her up, it just seems like they make it more enticing for the kids to write notes to each other in code, etc? :huh:

But where the judgment comes in is when the vice principal says to me "my children aren't allowed on the computer unless I'm standing behind them...and our computer is in a central location."

Wow...good for you.

We don't have a central location (I wish we did, but our house isn't made that way), but we block you-tube, instant messaging, myspace, have a net-nanny, and have each child limited to 30 minutes/day. I check what they are doing regularly, Amanda lost her cell phone at the beginning of this school year and...yah....

I was left pondering the WAY that the message was delivered though...it was like..."clearly you are letting your kids online all the time to engange in damaging behavior and learn these awful acronyms and I'm a better parent than you." It makes me want to jump up and point to the successes of my other children to prove that not everything I do is a failure.

:huh:

I didn't even know what to say except "thanks for letting me know. I'll definitely address it with her."

Amanda...QTT or you'll GIT (quit talking text or you'll get in trouble :> )

[Phoebe]

Re: Yet another...

We have HSM in our house. My 4 yr old especially loves it. She loves the music, but doesn't get the storyline so much. When there is an older sibling in the house, it is harder to keep the younger one away from it.

We don't do Bratz, but my kids are 6 and 4. I'm not sure how I will feel about it when they are older.

I was at my daughter's school yesterday and I saw many kindergartener's wearing shirts with spaghetti straps. My daughter has a couple for summer, but I wasn't allowing her to wear them to school. Also, both of my kids have some make-up. DD#1 got some as a birthday gift and I finally bought DD#2 (against my better judgement) some because she kept getting into mine. They aren't allowed to wear it out of the house.

[Michele]

Re: Yet another...

My mom wouldn't allow spaghetti straps either...or open toed shoes...for school....I never really cared, but my sis would complain about it. I don't like the bra-strap-showing part of it. But I think that's considered an antiquated fashion faux-pas.

ETA my mom's reasoning for no spaghetti straps is that they are too sexy for school.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Yet another...

It's like the young female doctors that would come in to round on patients in flip flops, chipped toenail polish and their white coats on weekends.

Ummm...I hate to change the subject here, but...REALLY? Are they even allowed to come in to the hospital to work with open-toed shoes? Even at the university level kids aren't allowed to wear open-toed shoes, flip-flops etc in bio and chem labs so that they don't...spill something on their feet or something.

Besides the fact that I have the ugliest toes imaginable, I'd be afraid of dropping something on my feet...like a needle contaminated with HIV or something. Oh...it would sooooo happen to me.

Sorry to get off track.

Kris

[Momo]

Re: Yet another...

So let me get this straight, this thread started out as a discussion about:
appropriate clothing for the little kids set
then went into HSM
pre-teen/teen girls clothing
now medical personnel clothing


...maybe some separate threads need to be made out of this one! :huh:

So Kelly, did you try Kidsurplus?!!

[peggyfromwastate]

Re: Yet another...

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw the experience out there of a mom who might have been standing next to you in Aeropastale buying a shirt and cami for her kid. There is just nothing easy about parenting.

LOL-- You were not the mom in Aeropostale standing next to me making her kid buy a shirt 3 sizes too small!!! I've seen Amanda's henley/cami combo on your pics- totally modest for mid school standards. We're talking you could see cleavage with this other girl I saw at Aeropostale-- b/c the henley was way small. (And her cami didn't fit, either, so I think I was noticing a trend.)

Kate brought home an Aeropostale henley from Aeropostale 2 sizes too small- I made her take it back. If she gets her size, wears it with her cami under, that's probably OK. Not my favorite, but not over the top and not revealing... It's just when they buy the shirts that are way too small! And the moms want them to buy shirts that are way too small.