Gifted testing

[Sheherezade]

Thanks for all the input!

The problem with asking for an exception is that everybody here is a PITA. It has created an environment in which the ONLY things that the administration will consider for all their academic decisions are test scores - and grades. They got rid of NHS last year at the high school and went to a strict cum laude society (based only on GPA) because they had too much political BS going on with the parents. They even stopped sending home announcements about activities and competitions for the kids "to protect them from overzealous parents". I kid you not.

It is a strange environment. Anyhoo. I believe that in this climate pressing the issue and just getting them to waive it will never happen. In fact, they might just make my life more difficult in years to come.

I talked to my son about it. He was totally cool with it. He wants to take the retest and said the test was easy. He said it would be simple to just get one more question answered. He's used to all the grade competition and seems to enjoy it. Who would have thought it?? He's brimming with confidence these days. Must be the testosterone kicking in.

FWIW, I think the testing rules are ridiculous - but I don't think fighting that when my kid is in the mix is a good idea. Better to fight it when they are both already established. We could move this discussion to the debate forum.....because we all agree!!!

[PrincessFiona]

FWIW, I think the testing rules are ridiculous - but I don't think fighting that when my kid is in the mix is a good idea. Better to fight it when they are both already established.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in that!!!

Kris

[Sheherezade]

GMW -- I must have cross posted with you. I can see how your teaching situation would have been irritating. I'd find gifted labels grating in those circumstances as well. Here, the whole dang community is basically white and rich. I'm not doing well on the diversity training for the kids.

There is still some of the "getting the kids in to the right crowd" but it has nothing to do with race (since everyone is basically white and WASP-y). I'd actually support this approach here. The advanced classes tend to have the kids that do their homework, listen to the teacher and try. The regular classes have more of the kids that want to be the class clown, the guys that end up in the principal's office for fighting and the jocks that think getting good grades makes you uncool. My son was happy when he started in the advanced classes in fifth grade because the teacher wasn't dealing with behavior issues all the time anymore. For him, that was novel. I find that sad, but it is what it is. I can see why a parent would push to get their kid in an enviroment that supports learning over texting.

There is a gifted program in the lower grades that I don't buy in to at all. My daughter qualified but we waived the admission. It is more about the parents than the kids. (There is a LOT of competition based on who got in to the gifted class.) Who needs that? Funny thing is the gifted teacher is kind of a flake for those grades (4-5) and now I get to listen to all my friends complain about how their child is wasting a year - and it is a gifted class! Hardy har har. Made the right choice on that one!

[Flynn]

Bottom line -- I'd try and get him in as long as you are comfortable that you are doing it for all the right reasons. Who cares what people think your motivation is or what the climate of the school is. This is YOUR kid. Screw them.

I DO agree with GMW though on the TAG classes (as a TAG kid and a former teacher ) being for parents as much as the kids -- sometimes. Sad but true.

Mone of my BFF missed Jr. High Honors by one point. He was a smart kid and a HARD worker. His grades were better than mine. His parents pushed it, he got in, and earned a scholarship to USC -- academic no less. His mom had the rep of being a PITA -- but it was a good call for this guy.

Go with your gut and it sounds like your son has the right attitude about it.

Tell us what happens okay? Please?

Angie, that is interesting about the TAG class for your daughter. There has been, off and on, a more advanced class for 6th grade math (at the middle school) but that is a mixed bag because the teacher for the more advanced class is...not so great. Since you know what the science class is like, I think it was a good idea to pursue. I'm glad the testing went so well!

[houseelf]

Warning--tangent about social ramifications of Gifted/AP/Normal track.

My neighbor with grown children tells an interesting story about her three children. Her first two were in almost all AP classes and as adults have turned out relatively well. Her third child struggled in the AP classes and she and her husband did the right thing and allowed her youngest child to take normal classes. His twenties have been a lot more tumultuous to say the least. She opines that the difference was the norms and standards of the peer groups between the three kids. Her older children hung out with college bound types while her younger kid got busted for possession of MJ several times. She said if she had to do it again, she would have kept her youngest in AP classes and gladly accepted his Cs and Ds.

I don't know if I completely believe this theory, but it is interesting food for thought.

Kelly

[Ladybug]

My neighbor with grown children tells an interesting story about her three children. Her first two were in almost all AP classes and as adults have turned out relatively well. Her third child struggled in the AP classes and she and her husband did the right thing and allowed her youngest child to take normal classes. His twenties have been a lot more tumultuous to say the least. She opines that the difference was the norms and standards of the peer groups between the three kids. Her older children hung out with college bound types while her younger kid got busted for possession of MJ several times. She said if she had to do it again, she would have kept her youngest in AP classes and gladly accepted his Cs and Ds.

Interesting. This is how we've justified paying for Lucys' private school. It's not about a better education as much as it's about a different peer group that share different goals.

[houseelf]

This is how we've justified paying for Lucys' private school. It's not about a better education as much as it's about a different peer group that share different goals.

Us too. There are FABULOUS public schools out there and sometimes I'm perplexed as to why we shell out this cash.

Still, my son has commented on several occasions that the kids in the neighborhood just aren't as kind as the kids at his school. (In fact yesterday I overheard several kids in the platt teasing another child, calling him "fatty" and telling each other to "shut up". ) Before we get into a debate I realize that private school is no panacea and crap does indeed go on in these schools too. Still, in OUR experience, this stuff doesn't seem to be the norm but feels to be more peripheral.

Kelly

[HouseofWool]

I just wish more parents knew of how to advocate for their kids, and how to recognize giftedness--and that other parents didn't exploit TAG classes to ensure that their more average kids were in the "right crowd."

Abigail, can you elaborate on this? I know my DS is smart, but what differentiates smart from TAG? Since he is only in kindergarden it isn't really an issue yet, but I know that by November(ish) he had already met most of the academic goals for the end of the year, particularly in math.

Warning--tangent about social ramifications of Gifted/AP/Normal track.

My neighbor with grown children tells an interesting story about her three children. Her first two were in almost all AP classes and as adults have turned out relatively well. Her third child struggled in the AP classes and she and her husband did the right thing and allowed her youngest child to take normal classes. His twenties have been a lot more tumultuous to say the least. She opines that the difference was the norms and standards of the peer groups between the three kids. Her older children hung out with college bound types while her younger kid got busted for possession of MJ several times. She said if she had to do it again, she would have kept her youngest in AP classes and gladly accepted his Cs and Ds.

I don't know if I completely believe this theory, but it is interesting food for thought.

Kelly

Same here for private school justification. I'm not too concerned about the TAG stuff for elementary -- separate classes at that point seem overkill. I had hoped it would be useful in middle and high school but it doesn't seem to carry much weight. Angie's point about a group of kids who are there to learn versus a group of kids there to text tapped into my concerns. I wish there were more options at the public middle school DD is slated to go to (one of the best in the district, sad to say).

There is a private high school that I would LOVE for her to attend but they don't have a middle school. I don't want to switch for middle and switch again for high school. She is very sensitive to that stuff. I'm not sure yet what we are going to do but we have 2 years to figure it out (one really once you start the admission stuff).

[Michele]

I think it's great that you askedhim what he wanted. In middle school I felt mature enough to choose advanced classes.


Side question for everyone: do you know about/have International Baccalaureate programs in your areas? It's a high school program. Russ and I were in it in HS and it was considered above AP classes at our school. Anyway, I've never met anyone who knew about (I may have askedhere before but I've forgotten).

[peggyfromwastate]

I think it's great that you askedhim what he wanted. In middle school I felt mature enough to choose advanced classes.


Side question for everyone: do you know about/have International Baccalaureate programs in your areas? It's a high school program. Russ and I were in it in HS and it was considered above AP classes at our school. Anyway, I've never met anyone who knew about (I may have askedhere before but I've forgotten).

We have IB programs- in fact there was an IB school in my hometown... Here you have just about everything. DD is in a magnet program in a middle school. There is *definitely* a difference between the "regulars" and the "center kids" (that's what they call each other-- saying the "regulars" is better than what previous years have called the non-magnet kids-- the "general pop"...).

fights in the hallway, girls making out with other girls, and sometimes with boys, people skipping class... it's a differnent world, man.

The IB programs here are competetive-- you need to apply to get in. There are also other magnet high school programs centered on science/math or humanities. There are also a lot of AP classes offered in every high school, they *really* push AP classes, and for the not-quite-AP caliber students they have *honors* classes. Parents can pretty much petition and get their kids in *honors* without meeting any special criteria...

Math is insane out here. Kate had 5th graders in her Algebra class. It's out of control, really. They want the kids taking Calc by 10th grade, and that's for the *normal* gifted kids. The accelerated math kids hit Calc earlier than that...

[oceanchild]

(Peggy is in what I'm convinced is one of the nuttiest school districts in the country as far as overachievement goes.)

There was one school in my hometown that had an IB program. It was a small cohort that this otherwise low-income high school used as a kind of magnet to try to attract better students from the rest of the district. It never seemed terribly prestigious, but it may be now. The advantage to standards like IB is that you know what you're getting curriculum-wise, but I think this thread has an overall important point that cohort makes as much difference as curriculum (and often more).

[DCJenn]

That insanity was the reason why I opted OUT of AP English. There was no way I was going to subject myself to that insanity when I could make As and still get challenged with extracurriculars (I was the HS newspaper editor).

(and Julie is right, the Montgomery County, MD school system is NUTSO competitive. When we moved from Pittsburgh to Gaithersburg, MD when I was in second grade it was like they were speaking a foreign language. I had NO idea what the F was up for at least the entire first semester I was there.)

Dude will be attending a magnet academy, conveniently located two streets over. It goes to 8th grade so we get to skip the scary junior high school of the San Antonio Independent School District.

Two of my neighbors have volunteered to help in the classroom of the GT program at the academy much to the joy of the teachers. The program needs a lot of extra support right now and they felt strongly that it was the only way to get the kids the kinds of experiences they needed. The SAISD is bleeding students and money to the 'burbs but it looks like we're making some increasingly good strides to staunch the bleeding and to reestablish some positive momentum.

My problem is that we have tired teachers assuming inner city kids aren't up to the challenges like the rich suburban (white) kids. but that's a tangent for another day.

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

As the mother of older school-aged kids (4th and 7th grade), I can now see that it would make more sense to save your private school dollars for the later years. I think when you send that little child off to school for the first time, you are motivated by worry/fear/anxiety and it makes you shell out big bucks for a situation that could be provided at your local public school. Once you enter the middle school years, there is a bigger difference in what the kids get at a public school vs. the private options (in some districts at least).

Your comment made me think about this because we toured all the private options for kindergarten. I was surprised that the Montessori school had 250 enrolled kindergarten kids - and only 30-40 kids in each of the upper levels. That seemed odd. Honestly, I think the Montessori option would be great now for my kids. The mixed age classroom could do wonders for getting each kid exposed to the appropriate level of language/math/social studies/science. There is just a lot of variability across a classroom and it is a shame to see your child "held up" or frustrated in a subject as the teacher tries to keep everyone on the same general subject matter. Far better to let the kids move at the pace that works for them - within reason. Of course, this would require a small class size....and probably private school. So at this phase of parenthood I'd counsel people to save your educational dollars for later. 20K for kindergarten is crazy.

Luckily, we moved to a good school district when my kids were in the early grades so we didn't have to consider private K vs. home school v. religious school (not our religion). Of course, we paid about 1000 more a month in rent to live in the good school district.

Why can't we go back to those one room schoolhouses with 18 kids and the teacher hired by the parents? A la Little House in the Big Woods?