Homework!

[houseelf]

Jenn, not trying to be contrarian, but it seems more developmentally appropriate for the fifth grader to learn these habits. His awesome team teachers told many of this districts over anxious parents to not worry about grades at this level because no one will pull their fifth grade transcripts. In their opinion, the start of middle school is all about learning to become a student: organization, time management, and self-motivation. I have met very few six or seven year olds (and none of them were my own) who would sit down after school, read instructions carefully, complete their work, and then put it in an organized fashion in their back pack for tomorrow.

There is one kind of HW I do feel is very appropriate for the early grade school years. When a teacher specifically asks a parent to go over a skill that a child needs reinforced, I think this is the best use of everyone's time. If Johny needs a little help with handwriting and Susie needs some extra phonics review and Jane needs help with mathfacts, a quick email to mom or dad is better than the entire class having to perform skills which may be redundant or unnecessary. It is kind of like the schools have lost confidence in their curriculum and feel like they have to outsource to private tutors, namely mom, dad, grandma or the after school child watch. I hate to see kids develop a dislike for homework and therefore learning at such a tender age.

[diggitydot]

We've got kids at the extreme ends of the student ability spectrum. DD1and DD2 are both in honors magnet programs. They pick things up very easily and quickly. Only now, as a 9th grader, is DD1 encountering classes that she had to actually study for. And that is only her honors biology class taught in the manner of college courses by a cantankerous old coot.

On the other hand, I just had a conference yesterday with DS's teacher due to his falling grades. Granted, dude has language delays and a lovely DX of ADHD, but he still requires far more time and effort to get through lessons. He truly NEEDS homework to reinforce what is being taught at school. The girls, not nearly as much.

Jenn, not trying to be contrarian, but it seems more developmentally appropriate for the fifth grader to learn these habits. His awesome team teachers told many of this districts over anxious parents to not worry about grades at this level because no one will pull their fifth grade transcripts. In their opinion, the start of middle school is all about learning to become a student: organization, time management, and self-motivation. I have met very few six or seven year olds (and none of them were my own) who would sit down after school, read instructions carefully, complete their work, and then put it in an organized fashion in their back pack for tomorrow.

I guess it's all a matter of when habits develop, etc. I've done zero research on the subject (and don't plan to), but I honestly don't have a problem w/the homework. As I said, however, it does seem as though we're on a much more reasonable end of the spectrum than what a lot of people have described here, so it's easier for me to be zen about it. I've never gotten anything labeled "Family Project", and while we have had some projects that clearly I had to participate in, they weren't over the top IMO. PLUS, when we have had "projects" large parts of them ARE completed at school, and the teachers always stress that they'd much rather see "imperfect student work than perfect parent work" (and then do grade fairly). I guess b/c it's (digging into a project on my own/working through homework) is something tangible I know I missed out on, I don't have a problem with it.

[Vanquisher]

Jenn, not trying to be contrarian, but it seems more developmentally appropriate for the fifth grader to learn these habits. His awesome team teachers told many of this districts over anxious parents to not worry about grades at this level because no one will pull their fifth grade transcripts. In their opinion, the start of middle school is all about learning to become a student: organization, time management, and self-motivation. I have met very few six or seven year olds (and none of them were my own) who would sit down after school, read instructions carefully, complete their work, and then put it in an organized fashion in their back pack for tomorrow.

There is one kind of HW I do feel is very appropriate for the early grade school years. When a teacher specifically asks a parent to go over a skill that a child needs reinforced, I think this is the best use of everyone's time. If Johny needs a little help with handwriting and Susie needs some extra phonics review and Jane needs help with mathfacts, a quick email to mom or dad is better than the entire class having to perform skills which may be redundant or unnecessary. It is kind of like the schools have lost confidence in their curriculum and feel like they have to outsource to private tutors, namely mom, dad, grandma or the after school child watch. I hate to see kids develop a dislike for homework and therefore learning at such a tender age.

This.

I think at this age, regardless of student ability level, homework serves as a task to beat the love of learning out of kids. Kids who are struggling spend 7 hours at school struggling, only to come home and be forced to sit and do it some more. Kids at the high end of the spectrum are forced to do repetitive and easy busywork. I don't think good study habits are learned in this manner.

Jenn, you are a reader. Read "The Homework Myth" and see if it changes your mind. I think it contains a lot of up to date research on the subject.

I do think that there is value in homework in middle school and beyond, but 6-year-olds don't need to be doing an hour of hour of mind-numbing drivel.

I do think that there is value in homework in middle school and beyond, but 6-year-olds don't need to be doing an hour of hour of mind-numbing drivel.

As I said - mine don't get nearly that much. Quinn (2nd grade) has 1/2 hour - 45 minutes tops (if he's screwing around, and that's on him), and that includes his 20 minutes of reading. They both love school, and they both know homework is not open for discussion -- but my kids don't get loads of busy work. They have spelling words to study for their weekly test, they have required reading, and they have math facts to practice. If there is a specific quiz that week for social studies or science (4th grade), there might be studying for that.

I'm not saying I'm making some "right" choice and the anti-homework side is "wrong". I'm sharing our experience here, and that I don't have issues with it, acknowledging that if I were getting "family projects" and the like, I'd probably feel differently.

[PrincessFiona]

It seems appropriate to me to not have homework unless a child is struggling. Our district beat the love for reading out of ME. I think when a 6 year old has to read a 15 page story 3 times and parents are measured by not only reading stories but also writing comments to prove they are listening every night it becomes adversarial. The kids work on reading in school and should be encouraged to read at home every night. If a child is struggling, there are school resources at the school that may be better resources than the parents. I was beyond distraught when it came to how Amanda struggled. It was awful and by the time she was reading we had battled so much because of my fears and her feelings of failure that more harm than good was accomplished.

I volunteer weekly in the school right now to work with a particular child who is struggling with reading though and I love it ... Probably in part because I don't have the emotional investment. The child gets me during the day when I'm not tired or trying to listen and get dinner ready, etc.

So much is expected of kids today ... and parents ... and teachers. It's just too much.

Rambling, I know ...

[PrincessFiona]

The private school here has buttloads of homework, btw and my older kids drown in it. I love that they expect the KIDS to do it. They actually get lower grades on assignments where it is obvious that parents helped. I applaud that. Parents in our local district are notorious for *helping*

[BonBon]

I'm too worn out to type out a thoughtful response, but just want to say that I bagged the homework. I am willing to do the spelling words, REAL math homework (and not that stupid Everyday Math shit where they have to draw pictures of household objects and write sentences), and reading. Every couple days or so, we pick a short book for the reading journal. Dude's particular teacher is the only first grade teacher who required the students buy a BINDER so they can keep their assignments organized. I no longer do family projects, idiotic math that's not actually math (one recent question was who is on the nickel...wtf), or the calendar of assignments. Here are assignments from THAT:
- List 10 things that are shiny (I'm pretty sure I can't come up with 10)
- Draw a design that uses the following shapes: triangle, square, rectangle, heart, and circle (DS is a perfectionist and would spend an hour and a half on this)
- Have someone read a book with you. Discuss a) the beginning, middle, and end of the story b) the setting of the story c) the characters of the story (Um, first grade reading material isn't all that deep)
- Find three interesting things in your house and create an ABC pattern. Repeat the pattern 3 times. (I have no idea what this even means)

...and so forth. You can see why I am angry over the homework issue and am not doing it anymore. I have a friend whose son is in DS's class and has a daughter in 5th grade. Her son has WAY more HW than her daughter. That's just nuts. DD is in kindergarten and when I had her conference with her teacher, she quietly asked me what I thought of DS's teacher and the HW. LOL. She said she will make sure DD gets a different teacher next year. THANK GOODNESS.

Well, I feel better now. I feel ya, Heidi. I don't have a problem with a little bit of hw to reinforce what they learn in school. It's the crazy shit that requires direct parental involvement that gets me.

[diggitydot]

If it's anything like they were teaching DD2 and DS in Arizona, an "ABC pattern" is one that repeats with three different items.

AB pattern = Red, blue, red, blue, etc.
ABC pattern = Red, blue, orange, red, blue, orange, etc.

[BonBon]

Ah, thank you. I'll have to ask DS if he knew that.

What galls me is the teacher gives out prizes for hw finished.

[peggyfromwastate]

Lol. Once the teacher sent a note saying that Luke didn't turn in his homework packet and I wrote back he never got one that week. It must not have made it in the homework folder. It was a short week so I thought they Were giving me a break. She said, "we will let it go this time.". LMAO. Or what? Give me a break. The homework police will bust down the door. What they will do is flip his card so he doesn't get a treasure from the treasure box. Sigh.

And the spelling words. What are your spelling words? Luke is in 1st grade. He's 6. His words are along the lines of "through, know, school, world, etc. Hard words I think. And they grade the spelling tests. He's never gotten more than 2/5 and we practice every night, but I won't make him practice for more than 10 min. Sigh. So STUPID. I hate that they grade the words. His last report card failed him in reading comprehension, spelling, handwriting...

[Ladybug]

Hmmmm...Get your tomatoes out. I'm coming from a completely different perspective, but I spend a lot of time dealing with students' anxiety because parents have blown their homework off and sent them to school unprepared. Some of these kids are good friends, so don't think I'm judging harshly. Frustrated parents might be able to get a high five from other parents, but their kids are left confused, unable to process/defend their bigger beef and reasons, standing in a classroom of other prepared students with teachers asking them where their work or signed paper are. It's very confusing, anxiety-provoking and eventually self-defining. I've had kids crying, wringing their hands and unable to focus all day because of the way their day started. Kids don't understand these studies or homework wars. They just know they aren't prepared...or being withheld from recess...or hearing the teacher sigh yet again in front of everyone...or sending them for a tardy slip. Kids internalize these things as their own faults or shortcomings. They're too immature to realize it's their parent's choices or disagreements with their educational system. Deep down they don't think their parents cared as much as the other parents. I've heard them say it.

Heidi. you have valid concerns but they're further complicated by the fact that you're a new dawktar family to the area. Blowing off the homework has the potential to label Lexi as a rich kid who doesn't think the rules apply to her. I would contact the teacher and set up face-to-face meeting to discuss your concerns and request for accomodations.

I don't have time to read to Lucy. It's impossible. She was reading to my mom on Skype and she kept misreading words. My mom asked her if DH or I sat down and read with her. She said, very matter-of-factly, that we were too busy with the babies. Broke my heart. I've since put her into weekly tutoring with her teacher. It's just one day a week after school, and she has her teacher's undivided attention to work on reading, plot definition identification, yada yada yada. I put Isabel in aftercare with her friends, and I hit the gym for 45 minutes. I'm released from all the mommy guilt and she's getting what she needs to build on her skills.

Get some homework help if you need it. A lot of busy families do. I work with Lucy on the piano each day. That's our time together. I also do math homework with her, but I like it. We actually have a lot of fun doing it together. The reading I had to outsource, but we're all better off. I'm sure I'll do the same thing with each kid according to their needs. I realize that this isn't an option for all families, but it's certainly not an unreasonable option to discuss on this board.

[HouseofWool]

What you say makes a lot of sense Annie. There have been many times when I have looked at the homework and said that it was stupid, but that it still had to be done.

My biggest beef this year (again, aside from the asinine math program) is the spelling lists. For 2nd grade there is a list of 1200 (yes 1200) words that they need to learn to spell before the year end. This is in addition to the weekly spelling lists. The current list has 100 words on it and they are HARD! Through, though, thought, daughter, alphabet, where, were, ware - lots of 3 and 4 syllable words. What happened to See Spot run? Granted C is reading way above grade level, but he has the typical struggles with spelling that an advanced reader has. There have been so many nights that he bursts into tears because he is "behind" where he should be in the list of 1200 words. Cripes, they mentioned that he will be assessed for the schools accelerated learning program (go Caleb) but at the same time, he feels horrible about the spelling stuff. *shrug* I have him work on 5-10 words a week that he didn't get right on the pre-test and go from there.

[Vanquisher]

Okay, I am going to brag a little bit about my daughter here:

She does not have problems with doing the homework on an academic level. We have studied spelling words exactly zero times, and she has gotten 100% every test. My daughter has a tested IQ of 153, and I was told it was the highest the examiner had ever tested in the state. The fluency passage she has to read is easy. She could have read it when she was under 4. She is currently reading the Ramona series by Beverly Cleary. She's read 3 of the six books, I believe. She got the set for Christmas, and I don't make her read every night (not even close). In fact, I never make her read. She's also read several other books in the interim. Her brother is teaching her Algebra. She knows basic multiplication, division, and some fractions. She taught herself how to type and write in cursive, and she is more comfortable on a computer than most adults I know. She doesn't need the extra help. She needs to be a kid. She is 6 (almost 7) going on 16 socially and 50 mentally. She speaks with vocabulary that would run circles around many adults. How it benefits her to sit at a desk and time how long it takes her to read a passage, do a math worksheet where she has to draw 5 bananas plus two bananas equals seven bananas, write spelling words like could, would, should, cold, bold, and mold each 5 times in a different color each time, and then read for 20 minutes and document the pages that she reads to prove that she is working on this skill, and then have me sign off on it, is all way beyond me. She has more confidence than anyone I have ever known. If you told her she was dumb, ugly, or some other horrible thing, she'd tell you flat out that you were wrong. She is the cutest, smartest, funniest girl on the planet. She knows it, and you couldn't convince her otherwise.

And, no, I don't want her having extra or different homework that is more on her level. I want her to learn how to ride her bike without training wheels. I want her to learn how to make a loaf of bread with her mother. I want her to sit and have a conversation via skype with her grandmother. I want her to learn to swim and throw a ball and make sidewalk art with chalk. I want her to clean her room! LOL

It isn't a "time" issue per se. It's a philosophy issue. I don't want to spend my family time having her doing silly homework. I feel that in recent years schools have begun encroaching more and more on family time. I don't think that homework helps ANY child at this age, those that need extra help or not. Maybe we should move this to debates. I have always just had her do the homework, but I am really starting to hate it. Family projects and other "over-the-top" things aside, I really don't see the value in it. So, I can either have a conversation with the teacher and try to diplomatically let her know where we stand on the issue, or I can continue with the status quo, doing some homework and forgetting the rest and ignoring the e-mails. I don't want to be "that" parent. I don't want Alexia to feel she is entitled to special treatment because she is some "rich" kid. However, if I have to do one more fucking diorama or similair project, I might just explode. It comes down to the fact that school and teacher philosophies have markedly changed in the past two decades. I grew up with two parents who are public school teachers. Chad's mother is a public school teacher, and they agree with me. It's the new dawn of teaching philosphies, and I am not impressed.

• According to a 2004 national survey of 2,900 American children conducted by the University of Michigan, the amount of time spent on homework is up 51% since 1981.
• Most of that increase reflects bigger loads for little kids. An academic study found that whereas students ages 6 to 8 did an average of 52 min. of homework a week in 1981, they were toiling 128 min. weekly by 1997. And that's before No Child Left Behind kicked in. An admittedly less scientific poll of parents conducted this year for AOL and the Associated Press found that elementary school students were averaging 78 min. a night.
• The onslaught comes despite the fact that an exhaustive review by the nation's top homework scholar, Duke University's Harris Cooper, concluded that homework does not measurably improve academic achievement for kids in grade school. That's right: all the sweat and tears do not make Johnny a better reader or mathematician.
• Too much homework brings diminishing returns. Cooper's analysis of dozens of studies found that kids who do some homework in middle and high school score somewhat better on standardized tests, but doing more than 60 to 90 min. a night in middle school and more than 2 hr. in high school is associated with, gulp, lower scores.
• Teachers in many of the nations that outperform the U.S. on student achievement tests--such as Japan, Denmark and the Czech Republic--tend to assign less homework than American teachers, but instructors in low-scoring countries like Greece, Thailand and Iran tend to pile it on.


I shouldn't have brought this up. Back to my troll cave.

[scrub-jay]

Heidi -

You've brought up something that my DH and I have discussed a lot (although with a 10 month old, we have some time). The American school system cannot handle children of your daughter's ability. This was true when both me and DH were in school and it is more true now. We are in your boat, we support what you are saying. Good luck. Let me know when you open that "School for children of IMSNers" that values family time at home (and maybe late dropoffs...). All joking aside, you are not offbase and if you are, I'll be joining you in that troll cave.

ETA: Way to go A!!! And go ahead and mom-brag away, I'm impressed!!