The Math Wars

[PrincessFiona]

Andrew's German teacher from SJP is old school. He has taught from the same book for 30 years.

Despite othet districts using the newest books, ipad based teaching etc, his students consistently tear it up when it comes to national and state level language testing . This has spurred resentment and political backstabbing from some MN peeps.

At the end of the day, shiny new technologies and new-fangled programs arent all that much better after all.

I'm afraid to ask what math our district is doing.

Kris

[BonBon]

I wish we would stop bureau-creating and start preparing and educating our children.

Nods.

Our district is still using EDM, I'm dreading it this year because I have two first-graders so it's double the homework fun. I've never seen such ridiculous homework. We were told that they only reason the school district still uses it is because they bought all the workbooks for x number of years so I think at this point they only have a year or two left. The teachers supplement "normal math" (ie stuff you should be learning) pretty heavily, thank goodness.

I am flabbergasted by the "need" for iPads, and the cost of book rentals. I am sick at the thought of low-income families struggling with this ridiculous expense.

[Amiens]

Nods.

Our district is still using EDM, I'm dreading it this year because I have two first-graders so it's double the homework fun. I've never seen such ridiculous homework. We were told that they only reason the school district still uses it is because they bought all the workbooks for x number of years so I think at this point they only have a year or two left. The teachers supplement "normal math" (ie stuff you should be learning) pretty heavily, thank goodness.

I am flabbergasted by the "need" for iPads, and the cost of book rentals. I am sick at the thought of low-income families struggling with this ridiculous expense.

This is what has a lot of people up in arms, and there was even a petition to recall Tom Lunatic (Luna is his real last name.) The money is not there, and even if property taxes were raised the public would fight it due to the political climate in the state. We have had to pass levy after levy to ensure small class sizes, and teacher jobs. How about looking at your curriculum before you tackle technology dipwad Luna. Arghh. Can ya tell this is a bit of a sore spot for me? Curriculum has been a HUGE eye-opener for me since I have had one child "forced" out of a school because of some *&#$(* stuff (records were transferred without my consent to our home school district). Seeing what my child was doing last year compared to this year- leaps and bounds. I knew we had the kids at a top notch school, but now I really know. I wish I could say to the State Superintendent and the Superintendent of the two major school districts LOOK at this school, they are doing it right, just copy and implement. But I am sure as with everything with any political ties, education included, $$$ is what matters most.

Ok off my soap box..... (stepping off singing "We've got the Right to PARTY," with Kelly's "We don't need no education.")

[Amiens]

We do some supplementation, but the kids don't know it because we are learning with them or making it fun. Because our morning drive is a total of 20 minutes for two schools, I have checked out educational DVDs from the library. Our favorite right now are on the US Presidents put out by Disney Educational Services. We've also done Spanish, Volcanoes, Bugs, etc.

During the summer my children do not get a free pass. We purchase workbooks where they do 1 page a day. Also if there is something that interests them, then encourage them to read about it, or get workbook. I am frequently trying to point out the real world applications of math. Right now I have been saying "_(insert child's name)__, if I wanted to double this recipe what would my measurements be?" or if the pancake mix calls for X, for 6-8 pancakes, but I want to make only 3-4 what would the quantities be?" Gets them to reinforce their knowledge of fractions.

I struggled with math as a child, but mainly because I didn't see the application of it, and now in my late 30s I am getting it. I recently used geometry to plan out a scale of a room that I am working on.

[Chrisada]

We do some supplementation, but the kids don't know it because we are learning with them or making it fun. Because our morning drive is a total of 20 minutes for two schools, I have checked out educational DVDs from the library. Our favorite right now are on the US Presidents put out by Disney Educational Services. We've also done Spanish, Volcanoes, Bugs, etc.

During the summer my children do not get a free pass. We purchase workbooks where they do 1 page a day. Also if there is something that interests them, then encourage them to read about it, or get workbook. I am frequently trying to point out the real world applications of math. Right now I have been saying "_(insert child's name)__, if I wanted to double this recipe what would my measurements be?" or if the pancake mix calls for X, for 6-8 pancakes, but I want to make only 3-4 what would the quantities be?" Gets them to reinforce their knowledge of fractions.

I struggled with math as a child, but mainly because I didn't see the application of it, and now in my late 30s I am getting it. I recently used geometry to plan out a scale of a room that I am working on.

This sounds just like our household. My kid has been doing work for me since he was four. And now at 5 likes to take his workbooks to the YMCA during Childwatch. So I will always supplement by choice. He's fascinated by the presidents, so I'm about to search for that video now at the library! I also always struggled with math so much. It's no surprise that I majored in Journalism and married a man who majored in physics to even out the household a little!

[peggyfromwastate]

I can't comment specifically on Everyday Math, but I will tell you that you will probably have to supplement your child's education more than your parents did for a variety of reasons. Not trying to start a debate, just my observation.

So much agreement. I spend between 1-2 hours a night directly teaching the kiddos.

[peggyfromwastate]

I've read through the thread--

Supplement: you would be amazed at how much your kid does not know about homework assignments given. I routinely have to explain and teach NEW concepts for elementary-- math and language. When I ask the teachers why my kids don't know the difference between the subject and the predicate, I'm told that WE do the homework at home on that BEFORE they learn it in school.

Flash cards. All the fricking time. There is no time to do math facts at school, and you are expected to do them at home every night.

Middle schoolers-- if they have problems with their math assignments, they are directed to go to a website of the textbook where some guy has made lectures and illustrations to teach every concept. "it's really helpful" days the teacher at back to school night... Really? So... Why have them go to class? They can just watch the video. Shrug.

Wasted time. My kids a spent two full weeks on classroom behavior and expectations. Ugh.

I always buy workbooks for summer. We do 3 pages of math, 3 pages of English/handwriting, and reading. My kids did not enjoy independent reading until well past 3rd grade-- except for dd1 but she was always a great reader. Still refuses to do math facts and hates hates hates math.

I also supplement with lots of museums, real world applications, nature walks (ummmm to say that science education for elem and middle is lacking is a drastic understatement-- I dissected a huge frog by myself in 7th grade!! No way is that happening anymore!)

Having experienced 2 different systems now (CA and MD), I know that CA uses their very own math curriculum all the way they high school. It's all state approved. Reviews warn that you must supplement bc the textbooks in middle are confusing. My kids think its so eeeeaaaasy. They were tracked for algebra in 7th in MD, and are tracked for algebra in 8th here. The math here is more like what they did last year. As in I picked out 10 problems at random points from their books and they could do them all. Sigh... But I do not want to push them to algebra in 7th bc if they don't want to take differential calc in their senior year then they run out of classes in junior year... It's a catch 22 bc you don't want them bored to death with boring math in middle school, but you don't want them forced to take intense math beyond what 99% of the population needs to know just for the sake of having "4 years of math".

Sigh.

Total digression.

Ummmm--- so basically my experience with daily math is that it is painful! Good luck and I hope you find a curriculum that will work.

[Pollyanna]

I'm finally getting around to posting the curriculums we have experience with. In AZ the kids used enVision Mathematics and here we are using Progress in Mathmematics by Sadlier-Oxford. Both are good curriculums and all of our children have solid math backgrounds even though they have different math abilities. The reviews for both programs are very good as well. In AZ there was a push to get through Algebra in middle school. With our oldest we made her repeat Algebra I in high school because she had a student teacher in middle school. She was so happy we did because she not only now has a better foundation but she saw how many topics were glossed over or skipped in middle school. We let DS16 skip Algebra I and go on to Geometry in his freshman year because he had an amazing teacher in middle school and he is a more confident math learner. Algebra is the foundation for so many sciences problems and if you don't have a good foundation you are going to struggle with chemistry, physics, etc. It has a huge snowball effect so we are very careful about letting kids skip classes in high school even if they are getting a credit from their middle school.
Interestingly the Catholic k-8 ds12 and dd10 are attending here takes a much slower and methodical approach. Seventh and eighth grade has a pre-alg and algebra track. Both are two years. But the goal for high school is NOT for you to skip Algebra I but for the students to test into the accelerated or honors course. The Catholic high school lets VERY few kids skip out of Algebra I. They have to score exceedingly well on the math exam and they only let a handful of kids skip every year. There is a bigger push on creating a lifelong learner with a solid foundation in core subjects rather than just pushing kids to higher and higher courses. I haven't asked but I am guessing that it also eliminates the problem of kids getting to Algebra II (who skipped the high school Algebra I course) and then struggling. Our kids are at least a year ahead in math coming from a very strong district and curriculum in AZ but having a child who also just started college this year I have come to realize even more that they pretty much end up at the same spot anyway so what's the rush? Taking a slow and steady pace (a la the turtle) will get you to college and in the same major as the kids that were pushed to be on the rabbits path.
I think I must be an anomaly because I have rarely had to do homework with a child or teach them math facts. I have never found it necessary to supplement what they were doing at school. It might also be that both of the schools our kids attended (public in AZ and private in TN) have always encouraged kids to take ownership of their learning and parents were never really asked to help. Even projects were completed 100% at school because they didn't want parents to get involved, lol. I don't know, I'm probably doing my kiddos a disservice but I figure 7 hours a day in school plus homework is enough. Even in the summer the only thing I do is encourage them to read (but the schools usually assign at least three summer reading books). Just like everything I don't believe there is one best way to educate a child, you can't "pound 'em to fit and paint 'em to match" so to speak. Each child will go through the process at their own pace and in their own way.

Keep us posted on what happens with the adoption of a new curriculum Deebs. Encourage them to check out enVision Mathematics (published by Pearson I think). We also really like the Sadlier-Oxford curriculum but it is used more heavily in parochial schools so a public district may not be as interested in adopting it. Good luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed that you dodge the EDM bullet .

[Deebs]

The more you all post, the more intriguing I find all of this. I actually think that a public schools should aim to complete the teaching in school, as much as possible. For all the pushing our schools are trying, as a whole, we're still lagging in a global society. I have no idea how my DD will grasp math. It's already obvious that my four year old will grasp math at the lower grades easily (he has learned to add, subtract, tell time, do 100 piece puzzles pretty much on his own). I guess im more worried now that we are using programs, in all districts, that can teach children with no resources beyond what is provided in school. If so many families feel the need to supplement, where does that leave the single parent with a very low level of education? We're fortunate in our community that most parents have a very high level of education themselves, but the more I explore, the more I wonder how children to parents living in poverty stand any real chance. On that note, I'm going to pop onto FB to see hats going on with the Chicago Public School negotiations today.

Thank you for the specific examples you are all familiar with. I'm heading up to the school today for another purpose,but am going to investigate what programs are under consideration.

[HouseofWool]

where does that leave the single parent with a very low level of education?

Crap, where does it leave the single parent, period. I know many of you are functionally single parents because of your spouse's schedule, but I am struggling to get it all done, much less to teach my child what he should be learning in school.

{back story - C attends a public charter school with multi-grade classrooms. There is a focus on integrated learning, meaning that the science lesson will dovetail with the social studies lesson. Last year, they all learned the history of a specific river valley, the ecology of it, the politics from the ousting of Native Americans to the effects of the Great Depression. But for things like reading and math, they divvy the kids up by ability level and herd them to separate classrooms.}

Last night is a prime example. Last year, he was in 3rd grade High Performance Learning (HPL) math one day a week, which seems appropriate to me. Never once did he complain that it was too hard, nor was there an excessive amount of homework.

Fast forward to this year. Both of the teachers in his current grade level are new to teaching in this school. One was previously working as our librarian even though she is a qualified teacher. The other was teaching in a different (very rural) district not far from here. Last night's homework worksheet was a bust. Some of it was fine, repetition of basic multiplication and division shown in a variety of formats (yea for drilling basic facts). Some of it had concepts that have not been introduced, EVER. Seriously, how is the kids supposed to do their homework that involves "order of operations" if they don't know what it is.

[houseelf]

coming from a very strong district and curriculum in AZ but having a child who also just started college this year I have come to realize even more that they pretty much end up at the same spot anyway so what's the rush? Taking a slow and steady pace (a la the turtle) will get you to college and in the same major as the kids that were pushed to be on the rabbits path.

I really need to hear this right now. Seriously. Thanks for sharing. We are having some 7th grade growing pains. Honestly, I need to know that it is ok if this accelerated track (Algebra I in 7th grade) doesn't work out. At first I thought he was just being careless but I worked with him I realized that while he has all the concepts independently, he is just having a hard time putting them together. I could really see that he just isn't there yet. I need to put my ego aside and do what is best for my kid. You moms and dads of older kids keep on talking me through this. I honestly need the mommy network now more than ever.

[SoonerTexan]

Algebra 1 in 7th grade??? That's just idiotic

[peggyfromwastate]

DON'T DO 7th GRADE ALGEBRA UNLESS YOUR KID GETS MATH SUPER EASILY AND ASPIRES TO BE A MATHEMATICIAN!!!

Clear enough Kelly?? Lol.

Seriously they tracked my dd16 into algebra in 7th and I can never emphasize how disastrous that's been to her education as a whole. She feels stupid in all areas but English-- barely scraping by math with low Bs if you are very lucky is just terrible.

I would allow ds11 to do algebra in 7th if he demands it--- but currently I have decided to just let the kids stay "on track" with algebra in 8th, geometry in 9th, trig/alg 2 in 10th, precalc in 11th, and calc in 12th. If they lurve math to death, they can add ap stats along with calc. Plenty of wriggle room in schedules.

[Vanquisher]

Ryan did Algebra 1 in 7th grade, and I don't think it's idiotic. DH and I both did it too. Ryan is a freshman this year and has two AP classes, Algebra 2 and several other honors courses. If that puts him on a rabbit's pace, then he is. But, he wants to, and does well. So, go ahead and throw stones.

Homework, especially in early grades, however, I find to be completely worthless bullshit. We don't supplement or tutor or do any extra shit outside school. Hell, I don't want to admit how much I didn't read to my kids.

They have the ability to do it, and are in gifted classes. So, I feel they will be ahead come college with credit, but not having AP classes is fine too. I just want the best for them. Right now they both want to be dawkters. Help me!

What I really don't understand is magnets.

[SoonerTexan]

I guess it just goes to show how much things have changed even in the past 10 years. Algebra 1 in 8th grade was the fast track then. I guess my issue with it is it wasn't portrayed as a "get ahead" thing, it was a "well if you aren't you just probably aren't the brightest" thing. Doing Pre Ap and AP was the "get ahead" track.