Gifted education

[Ladybug]

Unfortunately, anything gifted is a financial investment. I am tickled to hear about your school's gifted funding, and I hope more resources become readily available for identification and support. Some gifted people will need a lot more social support than others. I think having him tested and participating in a program will be contributive towards growth. You have intelligent and balanced feedback to share.

I hope to see all areas of intelligence eventually included. My kids are moderately above-average to average in linguistics and logic. I think they are Gifted (some more than others!) in emotional intelligence, interpersonal skills, music and arts. I wish we had a gifted arts program. A gifted leadership program. We have AP music and art courses in high school. I wish there was something sooner. But then would those kids become shoeboxed in their gifted area? Would it inhibit growth in weaker areas? It will be interesting to see where it all goes. I think we're more aware than we've ever been of differing abilities and intelligences.

[GrayMatterWife]

Spotty:

PM me if you'd like my full saga. I have a nine-year-old who is profoundly gifted in certain areas--but not all areas. It can really be trying at times.

The public school here advised that, "We offer gifted education by requiring that all our teachers in receive instruction on giftedness, so that they can provide gifted education in the regular classroom setting to all our students. Because all students are gifted in some way." Uh, no, they aren't. All kids are special, and all kids are talented at something, but not all kids are gifted. And gifted kids are not equally gifted or gifted in the same way. Oh, and some gifted kids are profoundly gifted in some areas and only modestly gifted (if at all) in other areas. The school's argument is sort of like saying, "All kids are dyslexic in some ways." Nope, all kids aren't dyslexic, and not all dyslexic kids have the same issues, and dyslexia cannot generally be addressed in the regular classroom setting without any pull-out for focused assistance. (And don't even get me started on profoundly gifted kids who also have serious dyslexic issues (my best friend's genuis-level, severely dyslexic child…). In short, my experience with public schools: they view these kids as a resource suck. Why spend $$ on gifted kids? They sure won't drag down the standardized test scores and they'll be just fine in the end, right? Never mind that, in the teen years, they are highly susceptible to depression and other emotional issues (my advice, for FWIW, is, if your child is gifted, get educated on what giftedness is…and is not…and what challenges it presents).

Homeschooling has been the BEST thing ever for his education in terms of stimulation. A crapload of completely "waste time" gets eliminated and he can focus on level-appropriate challenges. He also had a VERY good experience at his private school in StL, where the teachers were equipped to handle the situation.

Personally, I would not load-up on a ton of after school "additional" courses or "academic enhancement" programs. Come home from 7 hours of school for…more school? My kid would become depressed.

I would go completely in the opposite direction. Non-structured, student-lead stuff. Right now, the museum in town is having a three-day-long oral reading of "The Odyssey" and a hands-on workshop related to that. We are reading the epic at home and will go hear it performed. I am SO SO SO SICK of hearing about it, but he eats it up.

CTY and Duke's TIP are good programs, but I would really let him choose his level of involvement. What is he interested in learning?

[spotty_dog]

I also had you in mind, GMW. Thanks a million. I think I'll PM in a bit. I promise I am not chomping at the bit to get this label applied to my kids. Honestly it's kind of my biggest fear, I lay a lot of my life's problems at the feet of my gifted diagnosis. I have always kept in mind the maxim that the parent of the truly gifted child will respond to the diagnosis with, "So THAT is what is wrong with him!" This is why I think DS may be more of a bright, quick learner than a truly gifted intelligence. That said, he is unequivocally beyond the standard grade-level curriculum. One way or another I think we will shortly need some sort of accommodation.

What is he interested in learning? He is keenly interested in chess, mathematics, history, and science. He'd also like to know more about grammar and Latin. We have a lot of resources at home but using them is always interest-led. Given a day off of school, he lays out our day in order to hit his favorite subjects and also accumulate lots of information to put in his notebook (which he voluntarily started in order to collect important information -- he insists it isn't just interesting stuff but useful -- from the size of scorpion claws to the dictums of Pharaoh Cheops to times tables and the layout of pre-Macedonian Cretan palaces.)

Coming up behind him, I worry that DD is more on the gifted side of the scale, which is why I'd like to start feeling out the school's response to my inquiries now, before she enrolls in kindergarten this coming fall.

[GrayMatterWife]

I have always kept in mind the maxim that the parent of the truly gifted child will respond to the diagnosis with, "So THAT is what is wrong with him!"

YES. This. I don't know if you remember, but a couple of years ago--right when my DH was in Ireland on his mandatory 6-month rotation as part of his residency--I dropped really low on the radar here on the boards. At the time, I was dealing (alone…) with the nightmare of DS in a small parochial neighborhood school. It was a great school--if your kid had no needs outside one standard deviation from the norm. It was stressful and miserable.

But I remember so clearly when DS was IQ-tested (he had to undergo this insane battery of tests to apply to really pricey private schools in the burbs here). We had left the small parochial school the year before and we were all still recovering from that experience. I had assumed that the tests were going to indicate all these problems: attention or emotional or something. His previous school had treated him like such a freakish weirdo--I assumed something was wrong with him. When we left the test, I told the psychologist not to give me the IQ score--I didn't want to know it. I knew he was smart. But to call me about any "problems." About an hour later, she called me. I was terrified--she had called so quickly after the test. I thought: Geez, this is so bad.

She had a long talk with me, and explained a lot to me. She encouraged me to consider looking at DS's test results, including the IQ score, to understand him a little better. She told me that there was NOTHING wrong with him--he was just profoundly gifted in several critical areas (NOT in all areas!) and that his behavior was simply symptomatic of a such a child looking for stimulation. She could explain all of it. I remember breathing easily for the first time in a long time. She helped me a lot in terms of figuring out what he needs would be and she gave very good advice on what I should be looking for in his future education.

But that was my reaction: "OH!! THANK GOODNESS! There is an explanation for all this! That's what was 'wrong' with him!"

[GrayMatterWife]

What is he interested in learning? He is keenly interested in chess, mathematics, history, and science. He'd also like to know more about grammar and Latin. We have a lot of resources at home but using them is always interest-led. Given a day off of school, he lays out our day in order to hit his favorite subjects and also accumulate lots of information to put in his notebook (which he voluntarily started in order to collect important information -- he insists it isn't just interesting stuff but useful -- from the size of scorpion claws to the dictums of Pharaoh Cheops to times tables and the layout of pre-Macedonian Cretan palaces.)

FWIW, you are doing it exactly right. This is completely child-led, based on his interests. Let him be himself, and support his inquiries. Your support will light his fire way more than carefully organizing "ancillary" structured activities. I guess other people might have different thoughts on this. I am no expert.

Also, FWIW, I would look at the "gifted" label more as a description of how your child thinks and processes information, rather than any guarantee of smarts or…for sure!…common sense. Haha. It is just an explanation of how they think. It does not define who they are. And, giftedness can result in some pretty strange worries and reasoning. For example, a gifted child can watch a really scary movie and not be the LEAST be scared by it. He knows how the movie was shot, how the fake blood is made, that the story is fiction, and that it could never happen in real life (for example, zombies). But, the gifted child might thereafter start thinking really seriously about death. Not about dying at the hands of a zombie (a fear that could easily be put to rest), but about: how will he die? When will he die? What will happen if Mom dies? In a car wreck? Tomorrow? How will Dad drive the girls to school if Mom dies? Who will homeschool me? Will we be able to afford to live here? How can I prevent Mom from getting into a car accident?…

So a few days later…

"Mom, can we walk to pick the girls up from school today?"

"No, Sam! It is freezing. I am not walking. Get in the car and stop messing around!"

"I don't want to go. Let's get Dad to walk over and pick them up."

[Me, pissed]: "What? NO! We are going to be late! Get in the car! What is the MATTER with YOU?!?!"

Well, he was worried about how Dad was going to keep the family together if I died. WTF? How did you get THAT from a zombie movie? Well, he just thinks differently. None of it was irrational fantasy fear--so it had to be addressed. I had to talk with him about what would happen if I die. There is no point in simply assuring him that I won't die. He knows I have no control over that. I had to explain to him that I might, but I hope not, but this is the plan if I do…

We were really late to pick up his sisters.

[Deebs]

GMW - you did a really good job of describing a gifted person. In many areas (especially those with social climb, I think), people see that their kids are advanced or talented, and decide he/she is gifted. Not the same thing. There are also gifted children who are not advanced. I have a couple of friends who have really advanced kids, but they aren't the "weird" that typically comes with gifted. They were both furious when their kiddos didn't test into the gifted programs at school. Growing up, the criteria for gifted programs were very different in my school district vs. DH's. Mine was a two day psychological profile, including IQ testing. DH's school had a test, and allowed much more parental influence to have kids enter the program. The gifted kids really resented those who weren't gifted, but in the program because they didn't "get" the kids that were gifted.

[GrayMatterWife]

Spotty:

This is pretty typical thinking in terms of handling gifted children…

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...m-over-lack-d/

[spotty_dog]

FWIW I do think that is a particularly New York problem. I've heard a lot about their PS system going to "full inclusion" and minimizing differentiation for fear of exclusivity and/or elitism. I feel very fortunate that there are a lot of advocacy groups in my state that got this recent legislation pushed through: it was decided that under the state's obligation to provide "basic education" to all children, every district must provide "highly capable" services to the students who qualify for them.

[peggyfromwastate]

I heard absolutely nothing about resources for gifted children in Maryland and here in California. With common core for math, it's even worse. There is no moving ahead (or what my kid needs-- slowing it down). My ds usually starts to grasp a concept when they move on. My advanced 12 year old ds is bored to death in his math class bc it's literally the same thing he's done the last 3 years. He hates hates it. They only offer 1 "advanced" class and since we were transfers he was not tracked into it. My kids in this age (4 th grade thru middle) all want to homeschool now. The wasted time at school drives them all nuts and they don't want to give up activities, but they recognize that the school day and idiotic homework assignments make it hard to keep up the extras. They are not "gifted" but they are not average. And the school system is increasingly moving to accommodating the average only and expecting parent to help those outside average. Broad generalization from my experiences in 3 districts.

My 5 year old really might be gifted. But I do not want to know about it either lol.

[peggyfromwastate]

Gifted education

cross posted w Abigail-- same link.

This is what I'm talking about with common core. We used a version if it in Maryland but have been in common core this year fully and I have seen a difference. It's not good. It's really failing my ds9 who can't adapt. Gifted or advanced kids will be bored, but the kids who need just another week or so per concept are left always feeling behind, never feeling adequate.

[Sheherezade]

It's bad that I'm just hoping full Common Core implementation in Ohio is held off for one more year. There's a bill in the state legislature now to give schools more time to get computers, etc.

That would be just enough time that none of my kids will experience it.




Angie

[Vanquisher]

Does it go through high school? How is it handled in middle/high schools?

[Pollyanna]

It's bad that I'm just hoping full Common Core implementation in Ohio is held off for one more year. There's a bill in the state legislature now to give schools more time to get computers, etc.

That would be just enough time that none of my kids will experience it.




Angie

lol, I think it's smart! I hope you can avoid it too!!

Our Catholic K-8 has adopted it and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for it. I'm not impressed at all with Common Core, truly, does anyone like it?

[Sheherezade]

It's through the end of certain coursework.

Here, we have a 10th grade grad test that it will replace. In Common Core, you have to take 9 end of subject tests when you complete that tested subject to qualify for graduation. It's hard to see how it will be implemented for someone like my daughter. She's in 9th grade but some of the "end of subject" tests should have been given to her in 7th grade (algebra) for example.

They don't know how that will play out because if it goes in to effect next year as currently planned, the 10th grade test will be gone and these will take over. Even the superintendent doesn't know if that means next year's sophomores will have to sit for all 9 final exams on subjects taken throughout their school career or what....


Angie

[spotty_dog]

I think the Core standards meet or exceed most existing state standards. It's also meant to provide for differentiation. It's just the implementation that's rocky, because the math for example is a slightly different scope and sequence, and more conceptual. I also think the language arts is more comprehensive. But right now teachers are barely treading water to get the new concepts covered, they aren't really getting the resources to also differentiate within the coursework. I do think advanced kids are getting the shaft in many areas. http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/20...ifted.h33.html

Countries with the highest academic achievement don't track kids until at least 10th grade. For differentiation, they simply provide the teachers with the tools needed to teach advanced kids deeper and more conceptual approaches rather than just skating them through on an accelerated path.

Heidi, the Core standards go through graduation. However, because they're basically minimum standards, they only go through the minimum expected for graduation, which is the equivalent of Algebra II for math, plus some pretty rigorous expectations for reading comprehension and essay composition.