Gifted education

[Sheherezade]

Spotty - in our school system, they dumped an advanced science track in our MS two years ago to prepare for common core and this year they are working towards dumping the advanced math track in the MS as well. These tracks allowed kids to complete all AP offerings before graduation. If they end up requiring algebra and geometry in the high school instead of 7th and 8th grade, it will be hard for kids to get through AP Calculus II by graduation.

Although the CC standards are higher than the state mandates, they are lower than what our advanced kids have actually been taught in the current district curriculum.

For Ohio's minimal standards that exist now, the kids take a graduation test in 10th grade (and of course, test in 3, 5, and 8th grades). They sit for a practice OGT in 9th grade. I'd say at least 50% of the kids pass it in 9th grade with advanced scores. It covers a bare minimum and they've mostly completed that work by 9th grade.

Common core will be a step up in that all kids will be required to know slightly more on the minimum standard tests. However, it dictates curriculum in course design so it has been disruptive of the current advanced curriculum in our school system. It's tearing down our better curriculum for advanced track students and acting as a global curriculum for all - not just a "floor" of expectations.


Angie

[Vanquisher]

That just sucks to hear, Angie! I'm worried about what it will do to Lexi's track.

[Pollyanna]

Exactly what Angie said.

[Deebs]

And this is why I'm terrified I'll have to homeschool my kids (although GMW has given me hope that it might not be the end of me)! I loved public school and all the opportunities I had there, but things have changed so much. We've gone into every move, planning of course for it to be the last, with great public schools, private schools as a backup, and me as a very last resort option!

[spotty_dog]

I'm sorry that's how it's being implemented in Ohio. But the standards don't dictate curriculum, they just determine what's on the tests. It's still up to the states to decide how/when to roll out the tests and how to structure the courses. In fact, the standards offer an option for integrated high school math, which means that the 11th grade test will be a hodge-podge of algebra and geometry. This doesn't mean that the student who takes the test is forbidden from having calculus rattling around up there. Hopefully parents can get together and advocate for their kids who need subject acceleration. Sucks that they would need to.

[Sheherezade]

It's hard to advocate when the change was only adopted this summer and it becomes legally required next school year. The school is scrambling to get the tech equipment necessary to test and to get new curriculum in place to meet with the new PARRC assessments. Also, advocating for change when your last child has already taken all the math courses that will be assessed in a traditional sequence vs. the integrated CC math sequence and when that child will be done with school two years after the change occurs seems frustrating. They don't know how it's going to go, they don't even have firm decisions on what will be taught and there is still pending legislation to alter implementation in the state government.

We'll be told to wait and see how it goes, if it goes on schedule -- and then after the next year's implementation, I'll be out of the PTO mom business and on to getting the last kid in to a good college for her junior year of school. Chances are she will not be assessed with CC standards given the difficulty of aligning the math after it's already been taught in a different design without integrated probability and trig.

The math curriculum in high school seems to be the main sticking point everywhere. This is from a CC article about CA adoption. They are on the same time table we are, I think and dealing with the same decisions.

As this point, more districts have decided to switch to integrated Common Core math courses in high school (30 percent) than plan to continue with the traditional subject sequence of Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II and Trigonometry/Pre-Calculus. However, 38 percent of districts have not made up their minds. On the much debated issue of if and when to accelerate math development to put students on the path for Calculus, the majority of districts (58 percent) either have not decided when students should skip ahead – eighth grade or high school – or if that option should be given. A quarter of districts will offer a compressed sixth and seventh grade Common Core math so that students are ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

Here, the current sequence is Alg I in 7th grade, Geometry in 8th, Alg II in 9th, Trig/Pre-calc in 10th, AP Calc AB in 11th, and AP Calc BC in 12th perhaps also taking AP Statistics in 11th or 12th as an elective.

Seems that next year she will be taking Pre-Calc with the integrated CC curriculum but the teachers will try to make up for the missed Trig that is dispersed in the new plan. In the new plan, Alg 1 will be moved to 8th grade or 9th instead of 7th.

Hopefully parents can get together and advocate for their kids who need subject acceleration. Sucks that they would need to.

The sucky part is they already have a challenging curriculum, it's being taken away. It's the opposite of advocating for more for your kid, your advocating to keep what's been here for decades.

[spaz]

This is exactly why I decided to homeschool. 3rd grade was a wasted year. He was in a pull-out program, but it was only 1 day a week. The whole year was on the stupid test you had to pass to get into 4th grade.. He missed 1 question on the math and 2 on the reading at the beginning of the year and the same at the end. All the homework was practice standardized test sheets. All math and reading. No science or history...

His younger brother didn't qualify for gifted and yet,when I pulled him out his test scores went way up ( I have them go to a private school each year.) He qualified and was state recognized for DukeTIP.. And we didn't do a single standardized test prep....

But anyway, that is why I started homeschooling. Oldest took 6AP tests ( 5 of which are not offered in our district) and scored 34 on the ACT. Our district averages 19....

[peggyfromwastate]

When my dd18 started her junior year here in CA, they were implementing the standard CC tests for graduating. She needed to take (and pass) a math test for the CC standard-- which is basically algebra. Dd took algebra in 7th grade and the Maryland standardized test called the HSA in 7th. We were a bit nervous about this test here in CA, especially not knowing much about CC. Well, she passed the test easily. She is not a math person at all, and scored in the 55th-70th percentile range for the math SATs but the CC standardized graduation test was easy.

I think in HS there is enough variation due to AP courses and honors, which can be very intense. In middle grades and in elementary I see nothing positive to be gained from CC. In my super limited experience it has served to bring everyone to one level. Way too basic for some, and too structured/regimented for others. (As in, we work for 2 weeks on this concept then test. Then move on to another concept then test. Etc.). CC math is super annoying. The "explain how you answered that" questions--- ugh.

This one sized all approach is pushing me to homeschool. I'm nervous about it but pretty convinced it's the right thing to do.

[spotty_dog]

So, FWIW a lot of what you're describing is still curriculum choice on the school, district, or state level. It's not Common Core itself. Honestly I still don't have a judgment on CCSS. Theoretically, this appears to be the best shot yet at actually turning out high school graduates who are internationally competitive. It's based on solid statistical evidence and international benchmarks. But then, I'm equally neutral on PPACA. Theoretically it's a vitally important advancement. In practice it's kind of a cluster so far. Jury is still out on both, IMO.

[GrayMatterWife]

I was so worried that I would be a miserable failure at homeschooling that I did not even commit to it for a whole year. I told DS that we'd try it for a semester. But it is (1) not as hard as I expected and (2) a lot more rewarding than I thought it would be.

Everyone has different experiences, of course--a friend of my here in ATL tried it for about four months and thereafter sent her kids (who'd been in public) to a private school out in the 'burbs. They even rented an apartment near the school because drives are so awful in ATL. But even with that headache, it was a much better fit for them than homeschooling. (Her daughter, frankly, runs.her.ass.over--she's not super-big on discipline. I wouldn't have wanted to homeschool that kid, either!) Her daughter is now doing very well in private school. But that friends of mine seems to be the exception of people I know, though. Most folks I know who try homeschooling as a solution to not getting the services or challenges that their children need in the traditional school environment end up liking it.

Education now is a lot more efficient and there are no concerns about CC chaos or standardized tests or filler-time. DS has much more latitude to run free with his interests. He embraces challenges better now, I think due in part to the fact that he is not told that he has 30 minutes here or 15 minutes there to do a task, then he must move on. If he wants to do science for hours, that's OK. Plus, it gives us a lot more time in the evenings because homework is done during the day. It also gives him one-on-one attention in the areas that he needs support--spelling, most notably. I am ALL.OVER.HIS.CRAP on spelling. He knows he can't skate out of it. A classroom teacher cannot reasonably be expected to work one-on-one with a student who needs spelling remediation.

Of course then…I am also BEAT DOWN TIRED every night. But I sleep better than I was a year ago.

[peggyfromwastate]

So, FWIW a lot of what you're describing is still curriculum choice on the school, district, or state level. It's not Common Core itself. Honestly I still don't have a judgment on CCSS. Theoretically, this appears to be the best shot yet at actually turning out high school graduates who are internationally competitive. It's based on solid statistical evidence and international benchmarks. But then, I'm equally neutral on PPACA. Theoretically it's a vitally important advancement. In practice it's kind of a cluster so far. Jury is still out on both, IMO.

I guess I don't see how CC can lead to more competitive HS grads.

The trend in schools does seen to be more towards adopting one size fits all in the elem and middle. There usually are some tiered type of levels for early readers and what not in the K-3rd grade, but ever once CC took over this past year full time for my ds9, it's been a one assignment for the entire class kind of situation.

Ds9s teacher is frustrated bc CC is a totally new testing standard and so all the teachers have had to adapt to that--- the old CA state test isn't being used anymore in favor of the (less challenging) CC test.

I'm skeptical that this will help turn out better quality grads in the future. I wish there would be more tracking of kids into trade schools in high school actually--- the typical high school credits required for graduation aren't useful for most kids in my opinion if the goal is for them to be able to graduate and start working in the real world. The credits required are geared towards getting kids into college, but the kids who barely pass and are not really prepared for college are left with overall mediocre training and still only employable in basic min wage jobs.

I speak from just looking at out schools we've been exposed to in the 3 different states where we've lived with school age kids. There is a change towards a baseline min standard and I see that min standard as being what is expected to be taught. Anything above that is above and beyond, and a lot of schools just don't have resources or motivation to invest in anything above or beyond when they NEED to meet this baseline and also provide for the kids with IEPs and what not. Legally the schools are not required to academically challenge students.

It's a really tough issue. Most teachers I know feel so burdened by the standardized testing push and pressure from admin to have certain test scores and pass rates. It's just frustrating all around.

Also in our area in the push to keep the focus on the standardized test scores which is what determines the school ratings has forced a movement away from the non-tested materials (like science, history, arts, music). In fact music and art are not funded at all by our school district and I live in an extremely wealthy area. The main thing is getting the school rated highly, and that rating is based on standardized scores having to do with reading and math. Anything else is bonus. But I don't agree. I think you need math, reading, science, history, music, art, language... This is the age when the kids should be exposed to everything--- but I can say that over the past 10 years I have seen that the focus is definitely on the test and not in producing well rounded thinkers who are eager to learn about all sorts of things...

I think standardized testing has failed us. More standardized testing on a federal level vs the phased out state level is bound to be more inadequate than ever. IMHO of course!!!

[Sheherezade]

IMHO, I agree. I used to have so much hope and energy for education. From my experience over the last 12 years dealing with school systems and the politics of education, I've really lost faith. I'm absolutely of the opinion NOW that less is more.

[Pollyanna]

Yes to what Peggy said! And so true about moving to "one size fits all". We saw the move in that direction several years ago before CC even showed up, now it's worse. Hell, even the grading system our kids had in AZ was about everyone "meeting the minimum", which sucked the motivation out of the high achievers (and this was a district that catered to high achievers). The kids who struggled essentially continued to struggle but their grades were high because it was easy to meet minimums (that were higher than what CC expects). Seriously it was a CF. I don't believe for a second CC will create more competitive students coming out of HS.

[spotty_dog]

This is definitely what seems to be playing out across the country: administrators and educators are so overwhelmed just making the transition, that they are sweeping the advanced kids under the rug and ignoring them for the time being. It's a shame. http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/20...ifted.h33.html

[Sheherezade]

At the summer school board meeting there was a palpable mood of panic in the room as they laid out the plan to get them to CC and PARCC testing by next year. It's a huge transition. I may have uncovered part of our particular problem here. We are a Race To The Top grant recipient and thus are legally required to align with CC curriculum as a condition of the award.

The manner in which common core came to pass across the nation is also ripe for conspiracy theory. Here in Ohio, we adopted CC as the condition of receiving a waiver for the No Child Left Behind requirements that all schools be 100% compliant at the ten year mark after the program began (2001-2011). Out of the frying pan, into the fire it seems. I wonder how much of this is political and linked to money for the states instead of an actual review of current curriculum vs, CC. The involvement of Pearson testing in the design is also frequently thrown out there.

I can tell you that I like the CC curriculum in theory but in practice it has a lot of limitations so far. Maybe this is the implementation. It may get better with time. The problem is, your kid can't afford to have three years of bad bumpy implementation as their education. Also, in many places, including Ohio, this is the third change in curriculum that's happened. My poor kid has lurched through three different starts of new curriculums, new testing, new requirement that are pulled or changed three years later when new political power steps in. 12 years of school with 9 years of varied curriculum is a crying shame. Parents are just done with politics controlling education.


Angie