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Am I the only one who supports preschool/kindergarten for little ones?

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  • #16
    Please ignore the rambling nature of this list. It was written at four separate times

    I agree that there are benefits to both preschool and kindergarten. BUT I don't think preschool is necessary in the least. I think the skills gained at preschool can be found through other avenues. Preschoolers don't need several hours away from mom and dad to learn how to separate, they can have a sitter, go to a dance class, play in the local YMCA child are area, etc. I'm not a big believer in academic preschools (actually I am vehemently against them) so I think folks that opt for that route are wasting their money (YMMV). Children do not need to be forced to sit at a table and complete worksheets to learn letters or math. They can learn those on a walk with mom on a car ride with dad. They are natural learners, I don't believe it needs to be forced. And I don't believe that teaches a child to be curious or to love learning. But those kids might be very well behaved at circle time when kinder starts. Kinder IS necessary simply because first grade would be rough without it. BUT I don't believe it needs to be in the traditional setting providing you are serious about making sure they are ready for first grade.

    Our very best best preschool experience was our co-op in CA. If that was available to every child then I might say that preschool is necessary, lol. All the teachers LOVED their work, they exuded love and kindness and patience beyond belief. They acknowledged separation anxiety as real for both parent and child but would say at orientation that they believe a child does not have to cry and feel helpless when mom leaves. We will guide them through the transition. Most kids had no issues (I believe the loving environment had much to do with that) but for those that did they systematically worked to make the child comfortable, knowing when to push and knowing when to call mom. Dd20 had anxiety issues even then but the director helped her transition from being terrified to a leader in short order. She would tell me when to leave, how far I could go and would call when I needed to return. I would find her rocking dd and loving on her. Of course, if you're looking at preschool for a break a co-op is not that, lol and really doesn't work for working parents unless there is a nanny available. But everything was child centered. The goal was for each individual child to reach their potential, not some random goal set for the entire class.

    The kindergarten shift began when dd12 started kinder. Before that our kiddos went 5 days per week for 2hrs and 50 minutes. Dd12 went for a full day. Our teachers pointed out that the full day does in NO WAY benefit the children academically (at that time) because it is the same curriculum as the half day they just add in lunch, more recess, circle time is a bit longer, they get quiet time and a 45 minute special vs 30 min. Dd12 full day experience highlighted the fact that for my kids they learned more with the half day at school and the half day with mom. I did less extra stuff with dd12 because there just was no time when she got home and to be honest she was too tired. I wasn't impressed. Fast forward to this year with dd5 starting kinder. We were so excited, 4 minute walk to the school, neighborhood friends, yay!!! Until I got there. I should note, some of this is the school and it's leadership, which will be different at all schools. Anyway, Parent night welcome, children are expressly not welcome. I've never been to a welcome where you don't see other children. Why are children not welcome I asked myself? Thankfully ds18 was home to babysit. Curriculum and schedule was presented. I sat there fully recognizing that this is a first grade curriculum on steroids. Two 15 minute breaks during a 7 hour day. Lots of seat time. No time for creative outlets or imaginary play. Gone are the colorful classrooms. Classrooms are a place for work and if that work is not completed in a timely fashion then you will lose you break (are you f-ing kidding me?). Don't forget they also have homework. There is a 10 minute snack but if you forget to pack one for your child they are SOL. No sharing allowed (I get that btw) and the teacher is not allowed to provide a snack either. Children are to learn independence and being hungry is a good way to do that (f-you lady). Note: I was very kind and did not point out the stupidity of all this. I was still hopeful because this was going to be an awesome set up for ME. By day three (which had only been half days) I realized that it may be a great set up for me, it sucked for my dd5. She sobbed on the morning of the third day but I got her to go. We could see the personality change over the weekend from happy and kind to sullen and cranky. While some of that is seen at the beginning of school from all our kiddos because they are tired, this was persistent and out of the ordinary. Monday I sent her for the full day, still hoping things would work out. She came home with sloppy work, more than she typically would display. She was worried about missing break because she was the last to sit on the rug so she just rushed through it. Lest you think this is just me, I hear these same issues from other kinder parents, I sat in dance yesterday while two moms talked about how hard the day was for their child and the older kids (those turning 7), the homework, how their girls are really to tired to be at dance. Heck the dance class is half full of crying children (and they are all kinders that have danced at this studio before. They are simply exhausted).

    So what's the point? Why are we forcing this on our littles when science tells us this is too much and not age appropriate? Why are they taking standardized tests in kinder? Wth is that about? Public kinder in our district (considered one of the best in the state) is very very institutional. I'm not even sure the teachers have time to be loving and kind and patient because they are given soooo much that has to be done. My standard question is: are these kids going to be doing differential equations in high school and writing existential works of literature at 16? What are we accomplishing by this push?

    I prefer to introduce school to our kiddos in small increments. 2 half days/week, 3 half days/week, and so on. I have found it to be very effective for my kiddos and our family. Interestingly, when dd12 was beginning kinder and the curriculum was changing, the first grade teachers at her school refused to use the new curriculum. They were all seasoned educators with specialties in reading education. They hid the old curriculum and quietly used it for two years until the district Gestapo found out and actually came into the classrooms and cleared out all the old books. The new curriculum sucked and left children struggling and placed more children in special reading services that ever before (which increased the aid from the state, if you're a conspiracy theorist, this is an interesting situation). When dd12 struggled one of the teachers gave me a copy of the old curriculum she had kept at her home. This change was NOT in the best interest of the children and the teachers were screaming it from the roof top but they had no power.

    As I have watched the shift in education over the past 18 years the most I can say is that I'm not impressed. Having such a wide variety of ages in our family gives us a unique perspective. I'm still a believer in k-8 public school if what they are teaching benefits the student not just the state. We prefer a Catholic high school experience providing it stays true to the tenants of the Faith. Dd5 is homeschooling kinder and is so very happy. She will also do a half day Catholic Montessori program two days per week. It is calming, welcoming, and loving. We will take each year as it comes for her. She might go back to the neighborhood school for first grade or homeschool. I'm not making any decisions right now.

    Dd12 asked to homeschool 7th and 8th grade. She feels behind in math and writing and wants a chance to catch up or get ahead because she is already looking forward to college and getting into Butler's dance company. So she sees she needs to improve her academics and continue to work hard in dance. Yes, it's a 12 year olds goal but it has created an internal motivation to learn that can't be beat. While she is loving school this year she is clear that she wants to go to the Catholic high school with her brother and only homeschool jr high.

    So really I have set myself up with a fun but rough year. Toddler plus kinder plus 7th grader make for an interesting school day trying to meet everyone's needs in all areas but I feel blessed to have this choice as I am keenly aware it is not an option for everyone.

    As an aside, Sesame Street came out just before my brother started kinder and my mom noted that all schools needed to change their curriculum because kids already knew so much coming into school. I know with the internet and other learning avenues children are learning as well. I'm not opposed to changing curriculum as the needs arise but I don't think this current direction is a good one. And while I'm not a fan of Common Core I don't place all the blame on its shoulders as these changes have been in the works for at least 7 years.

    In conclusion, IMHO: preschool great but not necessary. Kindergarten necessary at some level. Not all schools are created equal, not all kids learn at the same speed or by the same method. Love of learning and confidence in one's abilities should be the goal.
    Tara
    Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SoonerTexan View Post
      I have many unrelated-disjointed thoughts about it:

      1. I cant afford it on top of a nanny and preschool hours aren't friendly to working parents. I decided paying more for a nanny that would be a constant care provider and have the ability to do fun things with them (they are going to toddler time at the library today) was the better option.

      2. I think the idea of preschool has gotten a little ridiculous in upper middle class areas that value good education. I had friends freaking out and wondering if they should be sending their 18 month old. Which is totally fine, but they aren't going to be "behind" if you don't send them that early! I understand and appreciate early intervention for kids who obviously need it. However the idea of sending kids as young as 2/3 to Kumon type learning centers to get ahead on math, etc just so they are always ahead bothers me. A coworker used to work at one and said she always felt bad for the 3 year olds going home with math worksheet homework to do!!!

      3. This is a personal issue, but I'm pretty resentful right now that I'm not home with my kids. I'm hoping to have a year with N before Kindergarten and I'm scared of what it will bring when she starts. Are they going to balk if I want to take her out for a week to go on a trip?

      Otherwise, I do wish I could send her a few half days a week because I think she would enjoy it. I'm not worried about her being behind, though. We'll do something when she is 4, I just don't know if it will be very extensive. I'd love the idea of a preschool co-op.
      This. From top to bottom. Nanny to resentment to planning on pulling them out for vacation to thinking she won't be behind.
      Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
      Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

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      • #18
        I'm all for preschool for some kids. I don't think it's necessary for *every* kid, though.

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        • #19
          For those pulling them for vacation know that in some states and some districts that is highly highly frowned upon. I have no issue with it but some will threaten that your child may have to repeat that grade. So much BS.
          Tara
          Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

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          • #20
            That's what I was afraid of. My parents took us out as children and we went on some awesome, educational trips. And sometimes to Disney we never suffered, but I bet it wouldn't fly now.
            Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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            • #21
              Originally posted by SoonerTexan View Post
              That's what I was afraid of. My parents took us out as children and we went on some awesome, educational trips. And sometimes to Disney we never suffered, but I bet it wouldn't fly now.
              Sometimes you'll get a nasty note from the state...

              Public schools here require an application and approval request to be seen and completed by the teacher and the principal. Not sure how often requests are approved or denied.
              Tara
              Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

              Comment


              • #22
                Yeah, this is why I'm homeschooling (hopefully via coop if possible). I can't stand that crap. And if we get our wish, we will be spending a lot of time overseas, etc so for continuity, it would be better to have me be the teacher.

                Although we will see how much patience I have once we actually get started.
                Married to a Urology Attending! (that is an understated exclamation point)
                Mama to C (Jan 2012), D (Nov 2013), and R (April 2016). Consulting and homeschooling are my day jobs.

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                • #23
                  My oldest missed 18 days of school last year. I heard nothing from the school, other than how important family time is. Love our school!


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  -Deb
                  Wife to EP, just trying to keep up with my FOUR busy kids!

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                  • #24
                    We are supposed to submit a planned absence form and have the kids get it signed by their teachers as a way of informing them that the kid will be out. They ask for it, but they don't demand it. They also can't "deny" a trip. You aren't supposed to miss more than 15 days a semester. We did get a letter from the state on that last year (college visits) but the school said not to worry about it. It's required by law, and they said for some kids absenteeism is a real issue.

                    I'm lucky to live in a district with a lot of common sense.

                    Here's the truth though: your kids may not want to go on trips at some point. My kids stress if they miss a lot of work, and they would whine and ruin a vacation. It wasn't worth it at some point. No matter how many times you tell them they will be fine, they get anxious about it.

                    Angie
                    Angie
                    Gyn-Onc fellowship survivor - 10 years out of the training years; reluctant suburbanite
                    Mom to DS (18) and DD (15) (and many many pets)

                    "Where are we going - and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

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                    • #25
                      I remember that anxiety. We stopped going anywhere during the school year once I got high school. I was really hoping for some cool family trips during the elementary years when DH is an attending thoufh
                      Married to a newly minted Pediatric Rad, momma to a sweet girl and a bunch of (mostly) cute boy monsters.



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                      • #26
                        Yep, our kiddos do not want to miss in high school. They get too far behind in classes and missing practice is unacceptable, for all after school activities.
                        Tara
                        Married 20 years to MD/PhD in year 3 of MFM fellowship. SAHM to five wonderful children (#6 due in August), a sweet GSD named Bella, a black lab named Toby, and 1 guinea pig.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I used to be anti-standardized testing, but I've softened up a bit after working a private school. Anything can be distorted and treated as an ends, not a means. Our head of school collected a distribution of grades and SAT scores. It was very interesting. Some teachers grades were clearly inflated, and they had not mastered some information and skills regardless of their grade. Many of their grades were a whole letter grade ahead of what they would receive in a standardized setting. There does have to be some standardized measure or it becomes the opinion of a teacher. I wish we could find the balance...
                          -Ladybug

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                          • #28
                            I don't think you're the only one who supports preK/K. My three oldest attended PreK (and DD2 is in PreK now). DS attended formal K. PreK was FANTASTIC for all three of my kids for socialization, but pretty much did zip in terms of academics. K was a total waste of time for DS and a real misery. DD1, my current Ker, is reading on about a third-grade level--I'm not going through the hell of a bored Ker again. BTDT. We are just homeschooling her along with DS this year.

                            I am just sick of rote, mindless busy work at school and the dumbing down that goes on.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SoonerTexan View Post
                              That's what I was afraid of. My parents took us out as children and we went on some awesome, educational trips. And sometimes to Disney we never suffered, but I bet it wouldn't fly now.
                              I pulled DD1 out for a week once last year (PreK) and later for a day here and there for family stuff. One day she missed the bus and I didn't want to haul her there. Another time, DS had math olympics at a weird time and I couldn't pick her up from the bus stop. No one ever said anything. I was kind of surprised. The school hates me. Not the teachers--they are awesome. The administration. They deeply resent that I homeschool. Viscerally. Palpably. It is kind of weird, actually. When I did not enroll DD1 this year (DD2 is attending PreK there), the administration told me, "Well, when you're ready, we're still here. We look forward to seeing her." As if DD1 was withdrawn because I wasn't ready for her to go to K.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Pollyanna View Post
                                Yep, our kiddos do not want to miss in high school. They get too far behind in classes and missing practice is unacceptable, for all after school activities.
                                Missing practice is unacceptable in second grade football here in the south! OMG and it's three days a week with a game on Saturday.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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