Repeating Kinder

[civilspouse]

DD just turned 6. She has a summer birthday and I debated if we should have her wait to start kinder but decided to have her go last year because I knew we'd probably be moving and figured I could have her repeat if we thought that was best. She did fine in kinder last year. She doesn't love school so far but tolerates it. She says it's boring. She is super creative but memorization is not her thing. She struggled with reading and didn't really make any progress from the fall conferences to the end of the year. She also struggles a bit socially but I think that's just her personality not maturity. When my son went to first grade it seemed like there was a big push on reading. I decided that based on her reading that it couldn't hurt to have her repeat kinder plus all the other kids would be new at school just like her so it might be an easier adjustment and easier to make friends. She seemed ok with the idea.

I just recently found the pta site for the new school and they had some additional info. It said that in the fall at least they have a rest time in kinder where the kids can bring a small blanket and stuffy. My daughter quit napping at 2. They also listed their expectations for reading and at this point dd can read like Bob books which sounds at or beyond where they expect their kinders to be at the end of the year. DD has also expressed some unhappiness at the idea of repeating kinder. Now I'm worried that we made the wrong choice. Of course the schools are closed now and I can't talk to anyone.

[OrionGrad]

That’s a really tough one, especially since the school is closed right now and you can’t talk to anyone there. We held my DS back a year, so he was 6 and already reading when he started K, but that didn’t seem to be a problem for his teacher at all. Everyone in the class just read books that were appropriate for their level, so it wasn’t like they were holding him back from progressing. I have a hard time believing kindergarteners are really napping each day. Is this a thing?? In DS’ class they had free choice time in the afternoon when kids *could* nap, but they never, ever did.
I guess for me the biggest issue would be if your daughter doesn’t want to repeat kinder. If she was adamantly against it, I’d probably let her go straight to 1st. But if she didn’t mind I’d have her repeat. YMMV


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[SoonerTexan]

Is there a NextDoor or Facebook group you could join and connect with people who might have some good opinions?

Also, depending on when school starts, the office might be open pretty soon.

Based on what you've described, I'd probably send her on to first. I actually think it is great they have a rest time. The school day is 7:40-3pm here for kinder with one 30 min recess...it's too much and I'm expecting my son to struggle.

[spotty_dog]

Wow, that's tough. Is there a kindergarten pre-assessment, or other back-to-school transition time where you could meet with the teachers or admin? It's usually easier on the child to jump forward than to go back IME, so although from what you've put here she sounds ready for first grade, I don't think there's any harm in starting her in kinder, whereas if you start her in first and she needs to drop back she'll really notice and potentially feel badly about that. I am very happy to have my kids in very low-expectation environments for kinder and first grade. But at some point there's a limit to how much kindy-level stuff is valuable. Honestly I wonder if keeping her home for a year and then deciding on first or second grade placement would be an option?

I know it's hard not to have things planned out, but the school staff will probably go back at least a week before the kids do, and that should be plenty of time to ask about placement.

[Flynn]

So this is just my experience. I'm in no way an expert!!

We have a summer birthday baby so I get where you are coming from. I have a boy though and I do thing that the gender matters (for some children).

Here's what I think:

Regardless of where your child is when he/she starts kindergarten most kids catch up academically by second and third grade. Yes there are still the kids who struggle and there are kids off the charts bright....but MOST of the kids whose parents aren't reading to them, don't know their colors/numbers etc by the time they are four DO catch up. I think when thinking through a child's placement , academics is only one consideration and to me, not the most important one.

We have found where we live, most parents don't even think of sending a kid early for summer birthdays. It's just not done 90 percent of the time. So that means for the parents who send a kid at 5 to kindergarten instead of 6 years old, your child is significantly younger than a portion of his/her classroom walking in the door. Example: my middle son has an October birthday. He's 14. On his 8th grade basketball team he was the YOUNGEST kid. On a roster of 9, all his teammates had summer or September birthdays.

Another consideration is social. Since your child is a girl I think this is even more important. When girls hit 3rd grade in my experience the mean girls come out (sometimes earlier). Being older in your grade and "getting" how mean girls operate and that certain behaviors are seen as immature or weird can be important. There is a bright girl (academically) in my younger son's class. She was put in as early as possible so while my son is 11 headed into 5th grade, she is just turning 10 in August. She does well in school but is recently having a hard time making/keeping friends with girls. Since most of her friends are boys -- the age is such where boys are doing many more separate things. She's lonely, confused, and expected socially to interact with girls a whole year ahead of her. The "tween" years set the stage for having confidence in middle school. It's been really hard on her. She laughs at stuff other girls don't find funny and is still into physical humor -- bumping and jumping when excited. Even the "nice" girls find her awkward to talk to. I adore her. She's a really a neat kid but she's struggling. I can't help but think how her confidence would be had her parents waiting on kindergarten? Socially she's not ready for 5th grade yet she's reading at an 8th grade level and is well above grade level in math.

Finally, there is sports/ and activities outside of school. Physical dexterity and decision making is developmental. For some it comes early, for others it's a longer wait. Being older helps with developing other skills whether it's an instrument, sport, or interest like chess. It breeds confidence outside the classroom and can give your kid a bit of status inside the classroom. That's harder to come by for the younger kids -- "generally speaking," There are always exceptions.

From my limited experience as a parent of three kids -- the only down side to waiting is the kid might need some academic supplementation outside of school and/or inside of school. Teachers are used to that. I had kids above grade level in elementary school (and they were oldish for their grade) and it was fine. They got more at home academically from me, and they learned how to be a good friend, wait their turn, say no in a respectful way, lose gracefully, be confident without bragging, etc. We waited for my younger son to go to kindergarten since he has a july birthday. It was the right choice for him. I just got the roster for his new class and birthdays were listed. As a kid entering 5th grade with a July birthday he is already 11. In a classroom of 20 kids he is the 6th oldest kid. The youngest kid was born in March. I'm a little surprised with this info actually.


Academics is only one small part of the equation here. If you take anything from my tangential post here -- keep that in mind. You aren't a better parent for having a kid be "ready early" or a worse parent for "waiting."
The bottom line is you need to make the best decision for your daughter based on all the info you have at the time and move on. Whether you wait or send, your daughter will be fine in the long run. She has you!

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

From my limited experience as a parent of three kids -- the only down side to waiting is the kid might need some academic supplementation outside of school and/or inside of school. Teachers are used to that. I had kids above grade level in elementary school (and they were oldish for their grade) and it was fine. They got more at home academically from me, and they learned how to be a good friend, wait their turn, say no in a respectful way, lose gracefully, be confident without bragging, etc. We waited for my younger son to go to kindergarten since he has a july birthday. It was the right choice for him. I just got the roster for his new class and birthdays were listed. As a kid entering 5th grade with a July birthday he is already 11. In a classroom of 20 kids he is the 6th oldest kid. The youngest kid was born in March. I'm a little surprised with this info actually.

So I’ll be honest, this really bothers me. It’s like an arms race. I’ve already been informed by at least 6 parents that my son will be the youngest in his class with a late April birthday (for sure the youngest boy, likely the youngest at all). I couldn’t even believe it but now whenever I talk to a parent of a 3yo, every single one with a May-Aug birthday will be red shirted. The wealthier the town/neighborhood, the more red shirting occurs. All of these parents admit it’s basically 100% for sports/social and that their kids were academically ready.

I don’t know...it just seems like stacking the deck against kids who are already struggling. Like all of these wealthy kids already have a leg up with all the summer camps and enrichment and now we are making them a year older than their less wealthy peers. Because if you live paycheck to paycheck, you sure as hell aren’t opting into another year of daycare to red shirt a kid for social reasons.

I just wonder when this stops. Like it used to be that Aug birthdays got held back, now I’m seeing kids with March birthdays being held back in our town (making them possibly 18 months older than their youngest classmates) and these are developmentally normal children (eg no reason to hold them back). How can we reconcile kids starting kindergarten somewhere between 5 and 6.5? How is this going to go when high school kids could be age 13-19.5 (if you do the youngest and oldest possible swing)? It concerns me for dating/social reasons to have that large of a swing.

To be clear, I get that it’s easy for me to have this position, I don’t have a summer birthday kid and he’s big for his age. And I literally care not at all that he’s the youngest in his class; even at 3, I know he will be more than ready to start Kindy at 5. So clearly I have way less skin in the game than others in this conversation.

Anyway, I promise I’m not judging any individual parent. My best friend is red shirting her son (he’s 12 weeks younger than my son). It’s just a general musing on wealth/educational inequality in our country.



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[SoonerTexan]

I'm on the fence about it. I'm sending my February birthday boy on time, but part of me wonders if I should have held him back...but the thought of the time/money we would have to dedicate to private Kinder and the unknown of how schools in TN handle this pushed me to send him. He's totally academically ready, but he is an emotional mess and is still struggling with self-control. I know the first two months (or more) of kinder are going to be a HUGE struggle for him. However, I think a lot of the blame for that is that kinder here is what 1st grade was for me. He would have been completely ready for the 1/2 day program with recess my siblings and I had as children. The 7:40-3pm day with ONE recess and LOTS of sitting still that he will be attending...different story. So it really doesn't surprise me that it is happening more often.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

One way they’re handling it in our old city is that to enroll in one of the magnets using the lottery, you have to enroll on time. If you red shirt Kindy, you have to lottery into 1st grade (which has no openings usually). Now some parents still go to charter schools which has no such rule but at least for the public magnets, there is no red shirting.

People were PISSED when they made that rule. And I’m guessing as the city gentrifies, they change it bc of the clamor of all these pissed off wealthier families.


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[L.Jane]

The 7:40-3pm day with ONE recess and LOTS of sitting still that he will be attending...different story. So it really doesn't surprise me that it is happening more often.

This is my issue. E is a may birthday and so academically ready for K but it's really not K anymore like you said. It's more like first grade. A 15 minute recess in the morning and another in the afternoon just isn't enough. With all the research coming out about the importance of play, the stupid rules about the small play time they have is ridiculous.


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[rufflesanddots]

G is only 1 so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but as soon as he can start K he's going. Another year of daycare (especially if we have another kid) on resident/social worker salary would suuuuuck.

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[SoonerTexan]

G is only 1 so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but as soon as he can start K he's going. Another year of daycare (especially if we have another kid) on resident/social worker salary would suuuuuck.

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It's true, but when you have a kid struggling enough, you worry about them becoming "that kid." The one that keeps disrupting class, has trouble making friends, and eventually gets "labeled." It's heartbreaking when they start adopting that label themselves. Honestly, the fact that #2 will get a "fresh start" at a new school in 1st grade is partially the reason I'm ok with him starting now.

[civilspouse]

I totally get the argument against redshirting. My son is an August birthday. I had so many people tell me I should hold him back just because of his birthday and gender including the kinder teachers. He was totally ready academically and socially so I sent him and he has done great so far.

With my daughter I felt the same way. She is a July bday and I sent her at 5. I only decided to repeat because she was struggling with reading and a bit socially. I know school will always be hard for her so I think the extra year could help. In our previous location kinder was pretty intense and first grade things just got harder. I started having second thoughts because our new location sounds like less pressure in kinder.

I spoke to my mil who we are staying with about this the other night. She was an elementary school psychologist and had these discussions with parents. She has overheard me working with dd on her reading this summer and observed her with her peers at school a couple times last year and agrees she could probably benefit from another year so I think we are making the right decision. When the school opens up I plan to call and talk with them about their expectations for the different grades and hopefully that will help.


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[TulipsAndSunscreen]

It's true, but when you have a kid struggling enough, you worry about them becoming "that kid." The one that keeps disrupting class, has trouble making friends, and eventually gets "labeled." It's heartbreaking when they start adopting that label themselves. Honestly, the fact that #2 will get a "fresh start" at a new school in 1st grade is partially the reason I'm ok with him starting now.

That’s definitely a consideration. Although based on what I’ve seen, I’m not sure an extra year would help for D for example. She’s a November birthday so amongst the older...she is still going to be a handful in whatever class she’s in. Lucky for me that class is my home...but yeah, for those kids, I’m not sure it matters a whole lot. D has already labeled herself “the bad one” and she’s constantly saying how she’s always in trouble (even when she’s not in trouble).


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[OrionGrad]

I don’t know...it just seems like stacking the deck against kids who are already struggling. Like all of these wealthy kids already have a leg up with all the summer camps and enrichment and now we are making them a year older than their less wealthy peers. Because if you live paycheck to paycheck, you sure as hell aren’t opting into another year of daycare to red shirt a kid for social reasons.

I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, and I haven’t even thought this all the way through, but isn’t homeschooling also giving kids a leg up? If a child needs special attention or has unique needs, and they have an educated parent who can afford to be at home with them while they homeschool, isn’t that also giving more privileged kids a leg up that parents who live paycheck to paycheck can’t give their kids?


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[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, and I haven’t even thought this all the way through, but isn’t homeschooling also giving kids a leg up? If a child needs special attention or has unique needs, and they have an educated parent who can afford to be at home with them while they homeschool, isn’t that also giving more privileged kids a leg up that parents who live paycheck to paycheck can’t give their kids?


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It definitely can be. And in fact the effects could even be additive. It’s possible to homeschool AND red shirt because most people won’t homeschool all the way through so your child could even have both advantages (because they’d be older whenever they do enroll). Believe me, I have agonized myself about the “resource hoarding” I am doing by homeschooling my children vs enrolling them in public school and volunteering in their classrooms.

So yes there are ways it’s similar.

As it relates to special needs, it depends on the need. Many services (OT, speech) are ONLY provided at schools so most families choose to enroll rather than homeschool. Where you see homeschooling for special needs is more mental health (anxiety, bullying, etc).

Homeschooling doesn’t impact statewide testing on which public schools are graded so in that way, it’s different.

And as it relates to income, homeschooling may actually depress your income relative to peer families (equal educational attainment) since there’s a non-working parent though you’re absolutely correct that there’s a baseline level of wealth/2 parent homes usually in homeschooling.

Also, there are very few homeschooling parents that homeschool for social/sports reasons (though I think it’s somewhat common around elite ice skating/gymnastics)...which is my biggest problem with the whole thing about redshirting. If it’s for academic reasons, I totally get it. But as Flynn said, the data show the academics isn’t a big deal. So I just wonder about the inequalities created for social/sports reasons.

So it’s definitely complicated and there are some parallels with homeschooling. The arguments for/against aren’t mutually exclusive and it’s certainly worthwhile to consider all the angles. Don’t worry...I know I’ve spent many a sleepless night over it.


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