Helicopter parenting

[peggyfromwastate]

So... What is it? What's ok? What's not ok?

For elementary ages, it seems we as parents are expected to do everything for our kids to keep them accountable. Sign notebooks, practice math facts, quiz spelling words, parent teacher conferences, emails to teachers, room parents...

For middle school, the push has been "independence" for the kids, but parents are expected to check kids online reports (grades posted by teachers), and truancy issues become huge. All the middle schools we've been through have been very strict about dress code, sending home numerous rules and regs to parents. Emailing teachers is encouraged, and back to school night is super important. If you don't go meet your kids teachers, chances are your kid will be penalized by loss of points.

High school-- parents are expected to stay on top of their kids grades via the online system. Also parents should bankroll AP exams, SAT prep courses, SAT texts, college touring trips, various tech requirements the school has (laptops, "clickers", etc.) I receive emails from some teachers notifying me of grade reports. All teachers make public their email and say they encourage parent questions. We receive the report cards mailed to us. The school sends out truancy notices/phone calls. (Truancy is any absence or tardy the school says is unexcused... We tend to rack those suckers up.).

College? I dont know?

It seems like we all say--- advocate for your children. Call a meeting. Involve the admin. Go to the school board. And then you hit college--- and what's ok?

If you have any thought on WHAT helicopter parenting is at any level, please share.

For me I think emailing about CHANGING grades (subjective grades-- like essays) is over the top. Dd18 just had an exam where her teacher made sone grading errors. I worked with her since 6th grade to have the confidence to ask teachers about why she was marked down... To fight for grades if she thinks there's a problem. Finally she does--- the teacher admits that she made a mistake but is too busy to change the grade, or grades were already submitted so she could not... Stuff like this happens and for my dd, who is trying to learn to stand up for herself, it's discouraging. I don't jump in there though bc truly, once a grade is in The Computer it's very hard to change. We've btdt.

Anyway---Please share! I am getting mixed messages---- for example, when they go to college they are supposedly self sufficient, but when they are in high school we should call the teachers and raise hell for things that are unfair...

[medpedspouse]

I can only speak for college. The Family Education Rights and Privacy Act is a constant source of frustration for both parents (that are footing the bill/love their child, etc.) and the university.

I think empowering your college age kid by coaching them as to how to navigate difficult situations is best. Thing is, such needs to begin earlier so that the student has the ability to recognize when they need help and can ask for it. It also helps to ask your kid to keep you updated on how things are going. However, if they do not want to, they do not have to. What is frustrating is when a college age kid does not keep in contact with the parents ( I have had parents call to see if their kid is even alive since they will not return calls). If that same student gets into trouble and brings in parent to deal with the situation, I can assure you that it will not go smoothly. More often than not, the parent has not been able to get all the facts because their kid has only given them the 411 once the crap has hit the fan.

ETA - this is making the assumption that the parents are rational/have the ability to be objective people. Those suffering from assholian tendencies sometimes pass it on to their kids.

[diggitydot]

Helicopter parenting

Every school district is SO different in how parental involvement is approached and expectations vary WILDLY.

I expect to have more crap to fill out (reading/homework logs) when the kids are in elementary. They're learning about accountability and how to organize themselves. I don't have a problem with all the stupid signing of shit during those years. I also appreciate the flexibility to email teachers. It makes my life easier if/when I need to communicate with them if they check their emails frequently throughout the day. That tends to be a generational thing, though. Younger teachers are much more likely to be easier to contact via email.

Middle school is where I'm more hands-off in that I almost never need to contact teachers outside of extracurriculars. Granted, part of that is also because our kids who've done middle school don't have any special needs. That tends to be a game changer.

Our kids have been taught how to organize themselves and I expect them to be using the materials (planners, etc.) and skills that have been made available to them. Will they mess up? Sure. And this is the stage where it's easiest to teach them how to fix or deal with the fallout.

Socially, I almost never get involved unless an assault occurs. Once, DD1 was injured by some little shit yanking a chair out from under her as she was trying to sit in it. This was a middle school class where the teacher NEVER had any control and the rougher students did whatever the fuck they wanted with impunity. This wasn't something DD1 was equipped to handle as a 7th grader, so I called meetings with the teacher and building administration to discuss safety. Teacher wouldn't come, but the assistant principal was amazing and she effectively dealt with the crapfest. The kid was eventually expelled from the district and his behavior towards DD1 was the LEAST malicious crap in his repertoire.

The only time I've intervened in HS is with a teacher who has some significant emotional and/or mental health issues. DD1 didn't know how to deal with someone so unstable. She eventually decided that even though she lives for the subject this educator taught, it wasn't worth the angst to keep taking her class. It was a good choice on DD1's part since his educator was later sued for her behavior against students. And yes, she still has a job. I'm not sure how.

[GrayMatterWife]

I homeschool my 9 year-old, and I have to think about this a lot. I want to encourage him to think and work as independently as possible at this age. He does best, actually, when that is the expectation. That's his personality. As long as the expectations are clear (e.g., these answers must be in complete sentences, or this math is the type for which you must show all your work…etc).

At the public school, there seemed to be zero expectation of parental involvement, but it was always welcomed. I was involved in the classroom, but I didn't micromanage his work or grades. I often told him: "I am not going to do it for you. I already passed second grade." I would review his work at the end, and if he missed some, I would tell him. But he had to figure out which ones. Oh, but he couldn't go play until he got them corrected, of course! I do think that a lot of the inexplicable "A"s he was given was because the teacher knew I was involved. If he didn't do well, I was going to have a meeting with her to find out how we could help him at home. But NEVER to demand a grade change. I know people who do that. WTF? No. Just no. As long as the grade was mathematically correct, then he had to live with that.

In fact, one time DS got a bad grade on a test he deliberately seemed to blow off. I happened to be up at the school that day for something, and the teacher pulled me into the classroom, with DS, and showed me the test. She told me how disappointed and concerned she was and that DS must retake it. I told her, fine. He retakes it RIGHT.NOW. No extra study time. That wasn't fair to the other kids. So he literally sat down, right there in the hall, and took the test in magic marker (that's what he had). He got a 100. The teacher was so happy and told DS what a great job he could do when he applied himself. DS beamed. I asked her for the test back. She gave it to me. I said that we would take it home and put it up for display, but that he must take the grade he earned when the test was given originally. Yeah, we don't cheat for grades or get rewarded for doing crappy work.

At his private school in STL, some parents were PSYCHO about micromanaging the teacher. They literally had multiple doctors' notes with various and assorted diagnoses (some of which seemed pretty damn dubious), then demanding all sorts of accommodations. They provided "personality sketches" for their children, so that the teachers could automatically "understand their needs." I am not talking about genuinely disabled kids who needed an advocate. I am talking about parents who wanted to constructed a pre-destined experience for their kids. Poor kids. They never got a chance to develop their relationship with their teachers on their own--like normal human beings. They were sheltered from everything.

But all of this pales in comparison to the parent experiences I had when I was teaching high school, about 20 years ago. There was absolutely zero parent involvement. When I would call home, I would get cursed out. Not a single parent--not one--came to open house. I literally sat there, with all my nice little syllabi and Q&A sessions, and got no one. Yeah, parents should not be running pass-interference with every teacher for their kid over every issue…but high school is not a warehouse where you stick-em-and-forget-em.

I cannot conceive of why a parent would be involved in the average college student's scholastic life in terms of advocacy or checking up on work or something like that (I am not referring to student's with genuine learning disabilities, etc.). For the average college students: seriously: kick 'em out of the nest and make them stand on their own two feet. It's called real life--sometimes it's unfair. Sometimes people do you wrong. Sometimes you have to handle stuff you don't want to handle. I encountered all those things and I learned (sometimes the HARD way!) lessons. Maybe my perspective comes from the fact that I paid my own way through college. I worked and went to school. I paid my own bills--it really wasn't my parents' business. I was the only one receiving my report card. My parents are good people, and they certainly wished me well and were supportive, but the time had come. I was an adult. We never viewed college as an extension of high school or something like that.

I didn't even tell my parents that I had applied to law school until after I got in and decided to go. But again, it wasn't on their dime and I had been married and on my own for some time.

[Edit: in light of Pollyanna's remarks: I was not suggesting that college kids shouldn't look to parents for guidance or whatnot in handling the issues--like help with crafting emails, etc. That seems like a sign of a good parent-child relationship.]

[Pollyanna]

I don't know what folks consider helicopter parenting. I always think those are the parents sitting at the kids elbows while they do homework, talking to the teachers incessantly, wringing their hands about curriculum specifics, they're the folks at parent teacher night that makes the night go overtime with all their questions. That method may serve some kids very well but it's not our way.

Dh and I are pretty hands off. I typically tell teachers that I've done (insert grade) so I won't being doing it again. I expect you to let me know if there is an issue. I sign what needs to be signed but I don't work math facts or spelling words unless asked. Now, just because this has worked with our oldest four doesn't necessarily mean it will work with our youngest. Dh and I let the kids know we expect them to work to their potential do our hands off approach doesn't mean we allow for slacking it just means that this is their job to take and run with.

I save getting involved in their school life for big stuff and only have had to do so twice. Not that there haven't been a ton of annoyances along the way but IMO if you call the teacher/principal every time you're annoyed you simply become white noise.

We've not had to get involved on the college level but we have helped dd19 compose emails. That allowed her to get support and advice from us but still appear independent to her professor.

[diggitydot]

Oh, I just remembered another time that I became involved with the HS. They brought in a speaker who addressed sex and sexuality in outrageously misogynistic, antiquated terms and dynamics. Lots of slut-shaming and victim blaming. I had a sit-down with the principal who was extremely receptive and found himself appalled once I pointed out my issues with the speaker.

He literally didn't see the issue until I pointed out how everyday sexism impacts the lives of ALL women. It hit home for him when he realized that his own adult daughters had experienced some of those issues I'd listed and that it was directly related to the kind of thinking that the invited speaker perpetrated and encouraged.

[Sheherezade]

We've been very lucky in our district because we don't have a lot of those parent involvement commitments that seem to be popular these days. We did have to sign a reading log through 3rd grade. That's about it. Here, we have too much parent involvement so the district tries to work towards student independence. Starting in middle school, it's mostly a parent free experience, but parents are offered ways to be involved and the teachers are always accessible.

I think I've been lucky in that both my kids have always been academically successful with no input from me. I haven't had to make the call on how much to be involved to help them succeed or if I should just let them fail now. For us, that's been great because academics are truly our priority. That said, we have let our high schoolers chart their own course on extracurricular a. When my daughter wanted to stop riding, I didn't insist she continue. When my son dropped out of soccer in senior year after 6 years, I tried to make a case that it would "look better" if he stuck it out, but it's his life. With college decisions looming, we will see how that all played out. We have never insisted that they participate in after school activities and consequently, they have more free time than most. Better grades, too- but who knows what is most important? These are our values and they clearly reflect them in their choices.

So....I don't feel like I've had to helicopter but I do sometimes fear that I should have managed their life more to make sure they had more choices at this juncture. We'll see what happens, huh! Maybe letting the kid steer at 14 wasn't a bad idea, but maybe I should have been more involved in choices.

I think the biggest driver of helicopter parenting - which I define as over managing your child's life and making decisions or taking consequences for them - is competition between families. It's a keeping up with the Jones' thing, IMHO. It's also a result of our judgmental approach to parenting - the idea that there is one "right" way to do this. When you see your child as an extension of yourself you jump in too much and take decisions and judgements against them personally.

I think the trick is to be strongly connected - but separate - and the timeline for that's going to differ for every family, every situation and every kid.

FWIW, my father did a large bit of helicopter parenting for my brother when he was just out of high school. He and his girlfriend had a baby. They were 17. They married, and both went to college. My father paid all their living expenses and college costs. For years, the family gossiped over how enabling this was and how wrong. Me included. Turns out, it was the right thing for that situation. Both of them ended up fab adults with great careers and the granddaughter is in college now as well. For a different kid, maybe it would have led to a life of entitled attitudes. So, I always remind myself how smug and WRONG I was to have the opinions I did about that situation when I was all of 20 and supporting myself. It wasn't my call and my dad was right in the end. Not all involved parenting or rescue parenting is the wrong call...


Angie

[GrayMatterWife]

Not all involved parenting or rescue parenting is the wrong call...

I whole-heartedly agree with this. If the college-student person is in WAY over their heads (17 with a baby), they need help.

My brother in law is a world-class doofus. Nice enough guy, but scatterbrained, unfocused, and completely out-of-touch with the reality of how-to-get-by in the world. My inlaws paid for his college and offered ZERO guidance for him. He delusionally chose electrical engineering as his major (he hadn't passed calculus), and pretty much spent the next two years failing out of classes he was completely unqualified to take. He made a zillion bad decisions for his personal life. And they did nothing, mostly because my MIL was angry at the fact that DH was really academically successful and it made BIL "look bad" (uh no…he did that to himself. Oh, and MIL--this isn't about you).

Anyhow, he was in his--get this--junior year when he told us all over Christmas break that he "had" to pick a major. He talked about biomedical engineering or something batsh*t crazy. My MIL just smiled and encouraged him and my FIL (who knew it was a lost cause) did not get involved because MIL would have been furious for "implying" that BIL couldn't succeed.

So, guess who had to have the come-to-Jesus conversation with BIL? Me. That's right. BIL did not bother to tell any of us that he "had" to pick a major within the next 12 hours or the automatic enrollment system would kick him out (or something like that). We were all on a skiing trip. My BIL looked at me (after no one else helped) and asked me what he should do. I told him the truth. There was no way he was ever going to be an engineer because he flunk his math and physics classes, and that he needed to deal with that. I had him look over the classes that he did NOT fail, and figure out--from there--what he might be able to do.

He decided to major in Psychology (because Intro Psych was the one class he'd done better than a "C" in), which (at our college) was not a science degree but was a liberal arts degree and qualifies you to absolutely nothing (unless you do incredibly well and get into a master or PhD-type program, or if you double-major in a science and go to med school). It is basically the major that is picked when you can't do anything else (psychology majors--I don't mean that insultingly--I have tons of really ambitious, talented friends who chose this major and did incredibly well--but at our school, for many it was the equivalent of a "general studies" major that you chose when you couldn't do anything else). And he BARELY graduated at that. He was a stunningly average student and never did his required thesis because he was so awful and disorganized that his thesis professor gave up on him and just pity-passed him.

And, to this day, he has never been held accountable for anything. It would have done him a world of good to have been given some REALISTIC support and guidance from his parents. I don't think he really benefited from college in any way. He's never had a job that required a college degree, and never tried to get one.

[HouseofWool]

I try really hard to let my 5th grader make his own mistakes. This last week was a prime example, C completely half assed a huge project for school. It was awful. I was horrified by it.

I had him redo it and he is turning it in tomorrow. I want him to be regraded, but, I do NOT want his grade changed. I told the teacher that he cannot change the grade that was recorded.

That said, I coached him through the project (a visual presentation on Darwin), by asking him questions to get him thinking.

While working on this with him on this, I had to keep checking myself to ensure that I was allowing him to put it together himself. (Holy carp was it hard to let the grammatical errors slide!). I think I managed to stay on the hands off side, but it was challenging.

We also had a huge conversation about plagiarism...

[diggitydot]

We also had a huge conversation about plagiarism...

Just had the same convo with our 5th grader. Apparently, plagiarizing a wiki page isn't nailed as a no-no hard enough at school yet.

[GrayMatterWife]

Just had the same convo with our 5th grader. Apparently, plagiarizing a wiki page isn't nailed as a no-no hard enough at school yet.

Wow. ETHICS FAIL on the part of the school…

Good for y'all for making this clear.

[Sheherezade]

Do your schools use turnitin.com? All our kids papers have to be submitted through the site to get a plagiarism score....

At least I know the school is on that one.


Angie

[diggitydot]

Do your schools use turnitin.com? All our kids papers have to be submitted through the site to get a plagiarism score....

At least I know the school is on that one.


Angie

HS, yes. Not in elementary, though.

[Sheherezade]

Ah, gotcha. It's 7-12 here. Elementary is a different story.


Angie

[Phoebe]

I think it helicopter-parenting varies with each child. My oldest, 6th grade is very independent. I have contacted teachers a couple times via email. One was to tell her gym teacher she had a medical excuse from class because I knew DD would not wear her boot (heel fracture) so she could participate. DD wasn't always as able to work on her own as she is now. I still help with projects when she asks, but I don't do it for her. DD10 is very different and at this times needs her hand held to focus on her homework. I am trying to be more hands off and refuse to do her work for her. DD7 is able to do her own work for the most part. Parent-involvement is encouraged at our school. i have been in touch much more with Dd10's teacher because I am trying to help DD be more responsible and independent. The teacher doesn't keep up her end of the plan. She spends her free time in class texting her boyfriend and putting my kids questions off. My older kids have 504s so I have a little more involvement for that.

Some of the parents in the elementary school are way too involved and show up at the school everyday for lunch (I am not exaggerating and even the grandparents show up several times a week) etc and are all in their kids business. There is one mom in particular who was PTO pres, subs in the school and generally has her hands in everything. Her kids have separation anxiety and it is not a surprise.