PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

[MD&me]

Hi, before I even introduced myself, I wanted to apologize for the very long post – I felt like I needed to give you a bit of background so my post would make sense. I also hope that I posted on the appropriate board!

I’m the spouse of a doctor, not the MD kind, but the PhD kind. The reason I joined the forum is that my husband is also considering becoming the MD kind. He finished his PhD in electrical engineering last year, and although he has a great job at a successful engineering company, he is not happy with his job. He is feeling very uninspired, and wishes he had a job where he could work with people and really make a difference. He has always wanted to be a doctor, but he did not get into medical school when he applied 8 years ago (after his undergraduate degree). At the time he was accepted into the engineering program at Stanford, so he decided to do his MSc instead. He didn’t plan on doing his PhD, but he was not able to get a job after his Masters (because the tech industry was not doing very well) so he decided to continue on in school. Fast forward a few years, and well, here we are.

I wanted to start by saying that the most important thing to me is that my husband is happy, and I know that he is not in his current job. I really do feel that he has so much more to give (he has the biggest heart of anyone else I know, and is dedicated, hard working) and would be a wonderful, caring doctor. Because of this, if he really wants to go to back to school to become a doctor, I am 100% behind him. I myself (I am just finishing my PhD in child psychology) have recently decided to change career paths because I was unhappy – so I know how important it is to be happy with your job. With this said, I am very worried about what his decision to become a doctor will do to our relationship, and to our future family. I grew up in a family where my dad worked all the time and I rarely saw him. I saw what this did to my parent’s relationship, and I hated that I didn’t get to spend a lot of time with my dad growing up. Because of this, I have always been upfront with my husband that I did not want to be married to someone who worked all the time. We just turned 30, and we would like to have children in the next 5 years. This means that we would be having children while he is in the program or during his residency. My husband has made it clear to me that this is our decision, and that it is important that we make it together – but I feel stuck. I know that the reality of being a doctor is that you work long hours (especially during your residency), but I don’t want him to not pursue his dream because of this (because then he might resent me). But at the same time, I want to be honest with him and express my concerns and feelings (or I might later resent him). We have a great marriage and have always been good about communicating our feelings, but when I expressed my concerns with him about this tonight, I think he felt like I wasn’t being supportive. This upset me because I want to encourage him to follow his dream – but I feel that I also have to be honest about my concerns – I’m just not sure how to do this and be supportive. I was hoping that you might be able to offer some insight on what it is really like to have a spouse in med school and residency. How many hours per week do med students/residents really work? What is it like to have children during this time? Once he starts working, will he still maintain such long hours (I’m assuming it depends on one’s specialization)? The fact that there is a support forum for spouses of doctors makes me think that my concerns are valid!

Thanks in advance, and once again I’m sorry for the long post!

[Vanquisher]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

I would start off by letting your husband read your post, so he knows that you are coming from a supportive place.

The fact that there is a support forum for spouses of doctors makes me think that my concerns are valid!

Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

It does, in large part, depend on the specialty that a physician chooses what his hours will be, both in residency, and after. There are specialties that can be chosen than minimize the hours of work drain, but don't be fooled, all of them require long hours in medical school and residency.

My dh is in his last year of training as an orthopaedic surgeon. Throughout his residency, his schedule has averaged over 100 hours of work/week (with PGY-2 and 3 years coming in closer to 120 hours). I have two children, and I have essentially been a single parent to them for their entire lives. Medical school was easily the cushiest part of this ride, but that doesn't mean that it didn't feel hard while we were in it.

I think, on average, most specialties work 80 hours per week in training. Why 80? Because that's supposed to be the "legal" limit on how much a resident physician works. They will work you as much as they can/want to/can get away with.

Yes, it is hard. That does not mean it cannot be done, but yes, this group exists for a reason.

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

I love that my husband is doing something he enjoys so much, and I'm so proud when he tells me stories, off-hand, and I realize that someone's life has just been saved (and that person probably just took it for granted).

That said...

I have been by myself for most of this process. We had twins, and I pretty much parented them by myself the first year. I get very annoyed when my friends complain about their husbands not helping them load the dishwasher, etc. There were times during residency when I was just happy if my husband would come home and crash on the sofa for a few hours before going back to work. I would never ask him to get up and help with the kids in the middle of the night - his sleep is too precious.

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE what he does for a living, but I work very hard on my end to support him. I also don't have a career of my own, so my entire life is dedicated to taking care of our household, picking up the slack where he's not able to contribute. There are others here who do have a career, so you'll have to get their perspectives. I always imagined I'd stay home with my kids, so it's not a big sacrifice for me. I worked to support us through med school & most of residency. But as soon as we had kids, I stayed home and DH picked up some moonlighting hours. (Starting sometime his 2nd year of residency, he could moonlight & make many times more per hour than I could.) It helped us quite a bit for me to stay home, because sometimes DH was home only during the day (like when he was on a month of night shift), and I was free to spend that time with him.

DH & I both have changed a lot during this process. He started med school a year after we got married, and we still had a lot of things to work through. During the worst year of sleep deprivation, we nearly divorced. He was working almost constantly, and he just wasn't thinking straight. I was absolutely miserable, which didn't help our relationship. Looking back, that period of time really only lasted a few months, and our marriage is much stronger now. But I'll never forget that we almost didn't make it.

Some specialties seem to have a much better lifestyle than others. It might be a good idea if your husband could shadow doctors in some of those specialties to be sure he'd be happy there. DH started out wanting to do family practice, but after doing a month-long rotation during medical school, he decided it was miserable seeing kids with ear infections, etc.! He chose a specialty (Ob/Gyn) with a major surgical component, and those specialties are typically rough. My perception is that family medicine and pediatrics programs are more family friendly, so maybe some spouses from those programs can tell you if that's true.

DH decided to continue his training with a 3-year fellowship after his Ob/Gyn residency was over. We just started fellowship July 1. So far, he's been home every night except one. That is a HUGE difference from residency. He'll always have to take night call a few times a month, but our hope is that perinatology will be easier on his schedule than regular Ob/Gyn. We won't really know for three more years, though.

I hope that helps. For me, it's worth it to have my husband doing something where he's really happy. But there have been major lifestyle sacrifices for it - almost sacrificing enough that it wouldn't have been worth it. Most people do make it through, but I think many of us feel like it's been just by the skin of our teeth. I'd say it's kind of like a marathon - you feel like you're going to die. But the fact is, most people don't die, and when they're done, they look back on it with a great sense of accomplishment and satisfaction.

[Flynn]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

Hmmmm. I agree with Heidi's post (above) 100%.

• This is a HUGE decision. It will effect EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR LIFE.
  
  Medicine is a lifestyle unto itself.
  
  With that being said there are lots of variables:
  
  1.)Your debt (can you afford med school and residency?)
  
  2.) What KIND of doctor is your spouse interested in? There is a huge difference between specialities during residency and post training life. Read: SURGERY IS CHALLENGING.
  
  3.) You as the non doc will have to sacrifice over and over and over again -- are you okay with this?
  
  4.) My husband did not know his kids during residency...now he does. he worked THAT much.

Just some things to think about.
I'd have your spouse read some of the posts on this website.

I don't think anyone can fully understand how much you have to give up for medicine UNTIL you are knee deep in training.

Just my two cents.
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you'd like to continue chatting about this.

[MD&me]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

I want to thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to my post and for being so honest.

I would start off by letting your husband read your post, so he knows that you are coming from a supportive place.

I think you are right, I will show him what I wrote - and I will also do what Flynn suggested and show him your responses.

*Lily*, thanks for your suggestion that my husband shadow a few doctors. He is actually in the process of setting this up, and I think it is a good idea considering that both my husband and I had the experience of going to graduate school for 8 years only to find out in the end we didn't like the job we trained to do.

My husband is not exactly sure what specialization he would like to do if he does decide to go to med school, but I know that he is considering pediatrics - and it sounds like that is a more family-friendly options. Is anyone married to someone in pediatrics - I would love to hear what your experience is to see how different it really is from other specializations.

Thanks again for your advice...I really appreciate the support!

[DCJenn]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

My husband did the military medical route which has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

(advantages: graduating with no debt other than the damage we did to ourselves. disadvantages: we don't even get the illusion of control- we go where the Army sends us and if he deploys (again) there's no 'but wait, we have a kid'.)

Medicine is a world unto itself. Egos, stress, single parenting, etc. It's not fun, it's not easy and when we ran a poll a few years ago about "is it worth it", most people said "No". Not that they don't love what they do, but no one can properly estimate the impact medicine has on marriages and families. The first spouse is ALWAYS medicine, even for those in family friendly specialties.

Jenn

[houseelf]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

Just wanted to pop in and say "Welcome". The answers you have received already represent most of what I would say to you. My perspective may not be as helpful because we definitely choose a specialty and then subspecialty on the more rigorous end of the spectrum.

ITA with Flynn that for us, medicine has affected everything from the number of children in our family to my career to the type of cars and house that we buy. (Only low maintenance items because if anything needs done, the nonmedical spouse often will have to be the one to do it). It has affected the relationship he has with his children, his friends, his parents, and me. I have had friends tell me that they could not support the same path that my husband has choosen.

Medicine has changed us at a core level and even my uber-passionate surgeon husband has deep regrets sometimes about the path he choose.

There are some spouses here who adamently believe that it is completely worth chasing that dream and that there are more reasonable programs and specialties. Perhaps one of them can chime in and give you a different perspective.

Best of luck.

Kelly

[Cumberland]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

One thing to notice about most of the postings on this thread are that most have spouses who have chosen a particularly grueling route. There are easier ways, and we dont see too many of those people bc they might not need the support as much. Dermatology is a 9-5 residency, radiology is somewhat easier as well. Many family practice residents work much less than 80 hours, so do EM. If your husband wants to do anything surgery related, the hours are tougher, and the strain will show on him, and you and especially your relationship. It doesnt have to be a horrible time in your life, but residency in general is tough bc your life is not your own for the entire duration. Good luck in your decision.

[Phoebe]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

Welcome! Glad you found this place. I have to agree with what everyone else has said about this lifestyle. Don't take it lightly. The training years are the most difficult, but the core doesn't ever change. People always get sick, need doctors, etc. Hospitals don't close for Thanksgiving dinner, your anniversary or your child's school play, soccer game or birthday party.

Like others have said the specialty makes the difference in the end. My husband is in a peds subspecialty, neonatology which required a three year peds residency and a three year fellowship. The training was hard and exhausting, especially when you throw marriage and children in the mix. I didn't meet my husband until his intern year (PGY1) so I can't comment on medical school. I feel lucky that I was spared on that.

My husband loves his job, he hated general pediatrics which he originally thought he would choose. I can answer more questions about peds if you want. The hardest months in residency were the ICUs. He is 5 years out and works in a Level III NICU which has 75 beds. He takes in-house call, works weekends and holidays. His schedule is decent, but can get nuts. Sometimes he goes days without seeing our three daughters. Sometimes he has several days off during the week. He could have chosen a smaller hospital which would mean working less, but he loves the cases and the hands-on work that you wouldn't find in a smaller unit. He finds his job, probably like most others, very physically and emotionally draining, especially now that he is a parent.

Good luck with your choice! Read the posts about the various aspects of training and the parenting section where people ask when is the best time to have children. There are a lot of supportive people and helpful information.

[mommax3]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

One thing to notice about most of the postings on this thread are that most have spouses who have chosen a particularly grueling route. There are easier ways, and we dont see too many of those people bc they might not need the support as much.

ITA with this. There are also those of us whose spouses were residents before there was an 80 hr./week regulation to be followed, and what we say will be colored by our memories of that. I know for a fact that the program where DH trained is a much kinder and gentler place now than when he was there, due to the 80 hr. week. (We have a friend who trained with DH and is an attending there now.) It really can be a very difficult way to go. DH is very happy in his job, and I am thankful for that, but there have definitely been some big sacrifices in terms of time and $$$$. Almost all of us who are finished with training or almost finished have copped to hearing the horror stories about medicine and thinking "it won't be that way for us....." only to find out that it *was* that way (and worse) for us. Obviously, lots of people come out whole on the other side, but there is a price to be paid. If there is something, anything *else* that your husband might be interested in that would satisfy his desire to help people and make a difference, he should explore it. If he pursues medicine, there will be many days when he will feel that he is doing neither of those things. Just my :02:


Sally

[Auspicious]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

We're at the more family-friendly end of the spectrum, but I don't have time to post now.

More later . . .

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

Dermatology is a 9-5 residency, radiology is somewhat easier as well.

I wish we were at that program! It is a lot easier than other residencies but it still has some sucky aspects. DH didn't come up against the 80 hour rule but it was never a bankers hours job and he was NEVER available for whatever **** comes up between 6am and 7pm and then studying or preparing or call or etc. It is better now but I still take care of most stuff (I don't work) and when he is working he is essentially unavailable. I agree with what everyone else has said. I post only to add -- don't fall into a trap of thinking that by choosing a certain specialty it won't be a difficult set of years with you carrying most kid and home responsibilities.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

My DH is an MD-PhD, too. He started his med school/grad school at age 23, took nine years, then began a residency in Neurosurgery. He'll be approximately 40 when he is done with fellowship.

I wouldn't have it any other way. We are very happy and feel like we got way better luck than we ever deserved. No sh*t.

[SuzySunshine]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

My DH is an MD-PhD, too. He started his med school/grad school at age 23, took nine years, then began a residency in Neurosurgery. He'll be approximately 40 when he is done with fellowship.

I wouldn't have it any other way. We are very happy and feel like we got way better luck than we ever deserved. No sh*t.

Everyone here will agree that Abigail and I have to be two of the happiest neurosurgery wives on the planet. My DH will be 35 when he draws his first "real" paycheck and he doesn't have a PhD. With that said keep in mind that he can go into medical school thinking he'll want to be a derm or an anesthesia but fall in love with something else. So don't go down this path unless you're both willing to let that happen as well.

Good luck, it is a very hard decision but as someone who never found their true calling I'm jealous of my husband's happiness often.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: PhD to MD? What is it really like to be the spouse of an MD?

Everyone here will agree that Abigail and I have to be two of the happiest neurosurgery wives on the planet.

Yeah, Cheri's right. The two of us seem to be happier than the average NSG resident spouse. But, that being said (and Cheri wouldn't know this--our hubbies aren't in the same program), I think most of the wives of NSG residents in my DH's program in particular are happier than most residents' wives/SOs--NSG and other surgery residents included. I genuinely am not sure why. Maybe it's the NSG program here or the particular personalities of the SOs/DWs; maybe it's because we all are sort of very laid back (uh...low-shooting, might be more accurate) in terms of expectations; maybe it's because most of us have been married for forever and it just doesn't bother us to have the remote control to ourselves at night (we actually prefer it...hahaha!). But, most likely, it's because the program is so long, so intense, and so consuming that as a matter of survival, you just self-defensively choose to be OK with stuff (even when it's not ideal and even when it's not fair). Otherwise, you'll just get the crap ground out of you. Or get divorced.

Yep, now that I think about it, when it comes down to it, I think I am just LAZY: it is easier and more fun not to be mad. I am sure I am entitled to more time/more attention, etc., but as long as DH is a great dad to DS (which he, without a doubt, IS), I just can't conjure the energy to be angry. Especially when I see how genuinely happy he is doing what he does. If he were miserable, I can 100% guarantee you that I would be angrier and more miserable. No question.