Husband of a wife dreaming of becoming an MD

[poky]

Has she thought about taking a test prep course? They can be a HUGE help.

My husband also thought that listening to the examkrackers audio lectures while commuting was very helpful in studying for the MCAT; they're entertaining and do a good job of covering the basics: http://www.examkrackers.com/MCAT/

[Vanquisher]

I personally would not recommend the expense and sacrifice of going to medical school to anyone.

[diggitydot]

I personally would not recommend the expense and sacrifice of going to medical school to anyone.

Agreed.

Unless it's a case of "I can't live without becoming a physician", I say find something else. If it IS a situation where she (or you) simply must become a doc, do it the least expensive way possible. Higher cost doesn't equal a better education.

[corn poffi]

I personally would not recommend the expense and sacrifice of going to medical school to anyone.

Yup.

[Cinderella]

We are Canadian citizens. In the previous life we were both citizens of Soviet Union, but from different Republics. I lived in Ukraine and my wife is from Uzbekistan, where she attended medical school for 2 years. When some Republics were in the process of separation there was an increase in violence. That was when her family decided to immigrate to Canada. She thought that she would try to get into a medical school in Canada, but her relatives talked her out of it and recommended Nursing as a quick way of entering a workforce. She was content with her profession for a long time until I have resurrected her deep hidden desire to be a physician. To get into medical school in Canada is like winning a lottery. It is given that you have to have a high GPA and MCAT score, but even then you are not guaranteed anything. When I convinced her to go back to school to get her Bachelor degree, I stressed the importance of good grades, so she was able to pull off 3.91 cGPA. However, in her associate degree in Nursing college she only had 3.0 GPA, because she did not care. In Canada actually med schools do not enter your associate degree into GPA calculations, so we thought that it would be the same in US. However, in States they count everything, which ultimately reduced her GPA to 3.5. Too low for allopatic school, but could work for DO schools, providing a good MCAT. She is scheduled to write in July. She might do well and get into DO school, otherwise she is willing to take a chance in Caribbean. I have few friends who went to AUC in the past and did well, but things are changing now. Prematch is gone and number of residency spots available for IMG's is decreasing. But my wife has almost religious belief that she can get residency even from Caribbean school. The reason we were looking at SGU in Grenada is because they can get all clinical rotations in NY City. If she can remain in one area, at least I can work during rotations. I am a physical therapist and we fall under TN visa for employment, which is easily obtainable at the border with an offer of employment. I also have many relatives and friends in NY City, so it would be easier there socially. Ciderella, thank you for welcome. Were you also trained as MD in Egypt?

Wow! That's an amazing journey together.

As for your last question I'm a USC and my husband is the Egyptian doctor doing the USMLE's through the ECFMG and will be American board certified in four months. Then we have the pleasure of applying for the ERAS in September and going for interviews and seeing if we match the following March. I know they say the prematch is gone but it's not really for some cases. My Egyptian SIL is a cardiologist that did her PhD at Johns Hopkins and they want her back and still offer her a prematch this coming match. I think they'd do it outside the match because I'm told this is one route for IMGs in situations like hers. She's finished with her time repayment of her scholarship obligations at her home University now and completed all the USMLE Steps through Step 3 so she's considering it. Her Egyptian husband is an orthopedic surgeon who also did his PhD at Johns Hopkins but now runs two orthopedic programs in Nigeria. He says the flight from Nigeria to Egypt and Nigeria to the USA isn't that different. Plus two of their three daughters are USCs and Egypt is in a period of unrest.

I've been following the results of the last two matches for IMGs and the good news is they now have a 50% chance of matching which is an increase from prior years where as it was closer to 40%. According to the AMAs last press release there is a predictable huge shortage of doctors for the primary care positions in the coming years because AMGs prefer to specialize. It's good she wants to do Family Medicine because the majority of the IMGs are matching into Pediatrics, Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, OBGYN and psychiatry. It's not unheard of for them to match into other specialties but it's not as common.

I think it's also good that she has a passion for this and wants to do it. One of the things that Conrad Fisher repeats in the Kaplan study material that my husband's been using is that this has to be something you want every single day. I've come to learn that there are several non-traditional students on this site that have decided to take the medical path later in life. It's also certainly possible to do this with kids at any of the various stages.

I have to agree with Vanquisher that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. If I'd known back then what I know now I would never have encouraged my husband and supported him on this venture. The time and the financial commitment never ends. We've already been through medical school and it feels like we get to do it all over again with doing the US equivalent. Then we get to repeat residency. Then there is the long hours and studying to keep up the licenses to practice. The conferences, the being on call and having missed holidays, birthdays, family events, date nights, basically anything you plan for can change at a moments notice. The medical career life style just never ends even when you think it's supposed to.

It's certainly possible but it will change your worlds in ways you maybe can't even imagine at this point. If you have a solid income with physical therapy and nursing and you're both happy working the daily grind of the shift and you get to go home and be with the kids and have family time there is something to be said for that kind of harmony. Then again if you both really want to be doctors and have a deep passion for it and it hasn't let up after this long then you need to consider that also.

I wish you both the best in what you decide to do. Know we're here if you do decide to go down that road together. We get what you're going through when others can't.

I'm sure others will be along sometime soon to chime in about the medical schools you're looking at.

[Meenah]

If she wants to do primary care,consider the Nurse Practitioner route. I have a friend who went back to school and is now in her late 40s and is a new MD in Family Practice. We went back to school at the same time and it took me an extra three years and it took her an extra seven or eight. Her loans are much larger than mine, and our salaries are very similar. I realize this doesn't help, but just another thought. Welcome to the group.

[HouseofWool]

Along the same lines as Vanquisher, I would kindly suggest that she look into becoming a physician's assistant. 4 years of schooling and DONE, not 4 years of schooling followed by 3-7 years of residency. Since you mention that you are in your 40's, this basically means that she will be 50 when she is done with training and just starting out. The debt incurred will be horrible unless you have managed to stick away a good deal of money that you can live off of while she is in school.

[rainbabies]

Hi and welcome. I'd like to jump on the no, no, doctor train, and shoot for a mid level provider, position. Nurse practitioners and Physicians assistance are really needed locally for us, and really, all over. When ever I come across a young adult or second career person, looking in to nursing school, I tell them to consider their NP. So many more options. When I meet a person interested in medical school I advise they go the PA route. Medical school just isn't worth it, anymore.
Less schooling, less debt.

[corn poffi]

This may be a regional thing, but right now where I live, NP jobs are much easier to find than PA jobs. I'm not quite sure why...

Although either would be waaaaaaaaay less painful than the hellish road of MDs/DOs.

[HouseofWool]

If she already has a bachelors in nursing (and not a 2 year degree) then I would really push the NP route. So much less debt.

[SoonerTexan]

If she wants to do primary care,consider the Nurse Practitioner route.

This. Seriously! Way less schooling, good job prospects, and ridiculously close to the family practice route she already wants to do.

I'd say maaayyybbbeee the DO route, but that's a long path for someone already 40.

As for the Caribbean, this may sound harsh, but I think that would be irresponsible on her part given your ages and the ages of your children and the chances of matching. It will mean at least two years apart from her family or a majorly negative impact on your career and potentially your children. No way.

It's just not worth looking at it from an "at all costs" standpoint when the costs are your family.

[Thirteen]

Becoming an NP is a great option - there are many RN to MSN or NP programs out there, for working professionals. That, or a PA program would be my suggestion.

Welcome!



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[xngn8r]

Thank you for everyone's advice, but my wife does not want to hear about NP at all. In fact as a plan B she has applied and just been called for an early admission interview to a CRNA program which is actually way more lucrative financially than NP. Her reaction to her being pretty much admitted was anger. It is funny that people mentioned PA's. I am actually in PA school now, but have taken leave of absence for a year to figure out what we are going to do. The situation is very tricky for me. PA is not on a list of NAFTA professions, so I would need to find an H1B sponsor to work in US. So far I have called several recruiters and they told me that they have enough local graduates to bother with visa sponsorship. Initially I thought that I would be able to find a job in Canada, because they have introduced PA's into healthcare system, but they have now suspended most of the funding of the profession and tell doctors to pay PA's out of their pockets. Needless to say that there are not too many doctors interested in that. We have also realized that it would be impossible for both of us to study at the same time, because of the kids. So if my wife does decide to pursue CRNA route, I will have to quit PA program anyway.
Regarding the MD vs NP...It is maybe somewhat similar in US, but here in Canada the difference is huge. NP's have no real autonomy. They cannot bill OHIP ( which is our government run health insurance) directly. They have to be hired by a hospital or government run Urgent care facilities. They do have a decent salary of about 100K, but their job security is always dependent on a Ministry of Health budget. On the other hand, Family medicine is one of the best areas to specialize in Canada. A lot of specialists in Canada are restricted by availability of hospital positions and I have heard of orthopedic surgeons being unable to find a job and doing first assist instead. Family Physician ,on the other hand , can open an office in any location in Canada and will be fully booked in a matter of 6 months due to a shortage of GP's. I have known many Family Physicians that have stopped accepting new patients one year after they opened their offices. Their ability to earn money is only restricted by how many hours they want to work. It is not unusual for a GP to see 60-80 patients per day. I worked with one young doctor who saw 100 patients per day in a walk-in clinic. Few years ago our government tried to put a cap on a Family Physician's income of $450K per year. It resulted in doctors working part time and created huge waiting lists of patients who could not see their GPs. The government had to repel that law. So to summarize, the life of family Physician in Canada is very comfortable. But at the end it is not even about money. My wife told me that she would still prefer being a physician over NP even if NPs made more money than doctors. When she was a kid she had a tumor removed from her leg and the oncologist who treated her told her that if she ever decides to become a doctor he will take her into his department. She basically grew up with that dream in Soviet Union and managed to get into med school there, which is hard due to a widespread corruption. Even when she was in high school she volunteered in the hospital looking after Russian soldiers who were brought from Afghanistan during the war (1979-1989) with horrible injuries. So when she had to leave med school there because of safety situation in the country, it devastated her. I just want to give her back which was rightfully hers to begin with. I just hope that she can do it in US, so I can work while she is in school. If I have to spend 2 years in Caribbean doing nothing, I will probably go nuts or become so accustomed to it that I will never want to work another day in my life.

[diggitydot]

We live about 30 miles from the Canadian border and have friends who attended med school and residency in the US, then returned to Canada. Their experiences and opinions about primary care in Canada are very similar to yours.

As for a lot of us recommending other routes in medicine, it's not meant to be dismissive of anyone else's dreams or goals. Many of us wish someone would have shown us (or our spouses) the kindness of encouraging other careers. But we totally understand the undeniable attraction to medicine for some people.

As for potential immigration visas, you'd probably need to be prepared to live and practice in rural communities. Something you may want to keep in mind is that in some parts of the Pacific NW, being a fluent Russian speaker and a healthcare professional would be a HUGE advantage.

[SoonerTexan]

Hmm, I wasn't aware of the family practice lifestyle in Canada...are you intending to settle back in the US or Canada when this is all over, or does it depend? What about being an NP in the US if you could get your job

I just want to give her back which was rightfully hers to begin with.

I hope whatever you guys decide works out, but that is a dangerous way of thinking. It seems like she really would be an awesome doctor and deserves it, but at this point, you've got two young children to consider. As much as she may deserve it, it's not just about her anymore.

Additionally, how will it all work out financially? (that's a rhetorical question) She wont have the years of working to recover from the debt of training, and you'll have kids on the way to college.

Sorry if this is harsh. I could see the DO route being really rough, but working out. But not the Caribbean. Being away from such young children for so long or uprooting them to a VERY different world (and then uprooting them again for rotations and residency) in pursuit of something that may not even work out in the end just seems so very foolish and borderline selfish, especially given the debt and other opportunities she has to work in healthcare in a non-physician capacity.