What new hell is this?

[SoonerTexan]

It's okay--we know you are upset. That being said, I would be worried, but it sounds like you are. It also sounds like you are doing the right things and wouldn't have come here if you weren't worried.

I would have to say with a baby on the way, I'm not sure I'd rather end up in the middle of nowhere just to make the match than figure out plan B. I'm a loving wife, but I do have my own sanity to consider...

I would disagree with this. It's better for him to match somewhere than nowhere. I say this as someone who VERY much wants to stay where we are too (I live 20 min from my mommy and don't want to leave my family or job!) and has talked A LOT about my location preferences. But in the end, we applied to a lot of places I really don't want to live, and only cancelled some after he met his "number." He would argue, "but it would be better to match here than not match at all" and I would have to agree. I don't think you really want to go through another year of uncertainty and an ENT match that might be even more competitive next year. Plan B is always worse. It really is. The faster you get through residency, the faster you can settle down for good! (ha, well maybe!)

I think Moonlight's main point is SOAP starts immediately after you do or don't match and you will have to act fast, so it might be a good idea to think about your options as much as possible now and start to consider living further South, though the advisor is probably right that it may not help. I think this board has given us real examples of good applicants getting burned and we tend to be very cautious.

What did the advisor suggest exactly? Do they have a good handle on the ENT match? Starting a month ago, DH was getting emails (along with the rest of his class) detailing where they should be interview wise and telling them to get in ASAP if they weren't on target. This is directly from one email:

As we have mentioned previously, the new Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program (SOAP) which allows for a process for unmatched applicants to apply to unfilled residency spots around the country during Match Week- is not student-friendly- at all.

We will provide details in the Spring for your class to review the process and make sure all of you are well informed and prepared.

The most important thing to know is that you should do EVERYTHING in your power to not be in the position to use SOAP.

For that reason, we strongly recommend that you contact your specialty advisor/Departmental specialty advisor to review the number of interviews you have received thus far and whether the range of interviews allows for you to have enough depth (reaches, programs you are solidly competitive for, AND safeties). You do not have to go to every interview offered, but you need to go to enough and the range that allows you to be ensured of a spot next year. The number will be decided based on discussions with your advisor. (If you do cancel, please do it far in advance and be gracious.)

If after speaking to the Departmental advisor, you are concerned, it is not too late to apply to more programs or into a backup specialty, but this needs to happen ASAP. This is a far more preferred path then relying on the SOAP.

[GreyhoundsRUs]

Listen to ST - she's a wise, well-researched woman I also agree that it's much much much better to match somewhere. Anywhere. Wherever that may be. It might not be the thing that anyone wants in the immediacy, but it is the only way to insure you get your training (meaning that matching ENT this year is the only 100% route to ENT).


Wife of a PGY-4 Orthopod

[SuzySunshine]

I have to agree with the matching anywhere is better then trying to match again the next year, your odds go down significantly if you are not a graduating med student.

There are a lot of voices on here with a lot of experience. I very much agree that it only takes one and if his home program is high on him that may be all he needs but being prepared is good. My husband is almost 10 years removed from the match, 10 years - he went to a conference a few weeks ago and ran into a doc from his med school, 10 years later they were still giving him a hard time for not staying for residency. If his home program is as high on him then he shouldn't have a problem matching but be prepared for all scenarios.

Hang in there.

[GreyhoundsRUs]

Also, has he had some people who did match ENT from his school look at his application? What is his personal statement like? If he has good numbers and letters, there must be some reason why he's not getting interviews. If his personal statement focuses on the ear injury as the reason for wanting to go into ENT, that may not be enough for interview committees. I know in DH's field, they roll their eyes at most of the "I had a broken bone, it was fixed, now I want to fix bones" stories...


Wife of a PGY-4 Orthopod

[diggitydot]

What new hell is this?

As one of the jaded old hags around these parts, I'll just chime in an agree that matching ANYWHERE is a shit ton better than not matching at all. Seriously.

Yes, it's only November. Interviews are still going out. Nothing is settled. Not a single program has even a rudimentary rank list, though they may have an unofficial "wish list".

Very few things in the MSIV/residency candidate crapfest sucks as hard as the time just prior to the match. It's stressful having things unsettled for months. However, the ONLY thing you can really do proactively at this point is come up with a viable back up plan if shit goes sideways. You can't really research any specific cities in depth. You can't research move logistics without some details. You CAN start building a viable Plan B, though. Even candidates receiving crazy numbers of interviews should have a solid Plan B in hand before March.

Medicine is kind of all about hoping for the best while planning for the worst.

[corn poffi]

What DD said. He needs to match somewhere. Applying to more ENT programs this late will probably not cut it, as it is such a selective speciality.

Has he applied for any preliminary general surgery programs yet? Those prelim offers tend to go out later. It's not ENT, but it's a year of surgery. And he might get to see some neck cases. I realize this is not the same, but it is a million times better than not getting a spot.

[DrBandMe]

I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to offer my well wishes as you navigate through this process. I am also going through the match with DrBtobe so I understand your angst like so many others have shared about theirs.

To answer your question from earlier regarding how many programs he applied to for DrBtobe it was 32 anesthesia and 15 prelim/transitional. To date he has 17 anesthesia interviews and 6 transitional/prelim.

Much like ST mentioned before, DrBtobe's program also made a big deal out of avoiding SOAP if possible and after seeing two friends endure it last year, I know how miserable it can be. Therefore our goal was 10 anesthesia interviews to have the stats in our favor for the likelihood of matching.

All that being said though, if you need to do it, SOAP is a backup plan and you should be prepared to take anything over nothing. Unfortunately, that's how we are forced to play this game.

I'm so sorry you are feeling discouraged. I hope you can find some peace through this process soon. *hugs*

[SoonerTexan]

Has he applied for and preliminary general surgery programs yet? Those prelim offers tend to go out later. It's not ENT, but it's a year of surgery. And he might get to see some neck cases. I realize this is not the same, but it is a million times better than not getting a spot.

Well, I know of one in Dallas he'd likely be a shoe in for just by interviewing and ranking it...

[niener]

Well, I know of one in Dallas he'd likely be a shoe in for just by interviewing and ranking it...

I'll chime in here because my DH matched into a preliminary surgical position and while it's definitely the road less travelled it is another option. If you and your DH's ideal plan B would be to obtain a prelim position, then I would look into applying directly to some during this part of the process rather than waiting for SOAP. Reason being at this point you can be picky about which ones you apply to, and it's not nearly as difficult to get interviews for prelim spots as it is categorical. For instance, any programs that sent your DH a rejection letter that y'all were really interested in, see if they have any prelim slots he could now apply for. Now if your DH would prefer to do a year of research or something else if he doesn't match then obviously this wouldn't be the right option for you guys, but just something to think about.

Best of luck to you both in this hellish process and congrats on the baby!

[GreyhoundsRUs]

It must be. My DH is obsessed with running the numbers. He knows where he sits as far as his Step1 score, number of applications sent and number of interview invitations offered in relation to students who historically have matched in ENT. Not a day passes when he doesn't wish he'd gotten a higher score on the Step1, and he's currently obsessing with getting a good Step2 score, which he thinks will help him, albeit not in getting interviews but in making him more desirable to programs when they sit down to rank their applicants.

I know in ortho, a lot of places use Step scores as an initial place to weed-out applicants. This might be why he's failing to get interviews??? He probably should have taken Step 2 sooner so that the score would have appeared on his application. However, what's done is done. I would say his main focus should be to make the most of his interviews (like SS said, it only takes 1). Was he offered interviews at all the places he did away rotations? If not, maybe contacting on of the current residents at those programs to discuss flaws/holes in his application. I don't know how many ENT programs are out there, but did he apply to a wide range of programs (I'm assuming so)?




Wife of a PGY-4 Orthopod

[MAPPLEBUM]

One other thing which has not been mentioned is even after the rejection letter he can still call programs and ask them to reconsider his application. It's by far not ideal but some circumstances call for scrappy measures. My DH did that with one program in which he was very keen -- they didn't reconsider but at least he tried. He could even beat them to the punch and tell them to put him in the pool if someone cancels (because trust me, late on the trail plenty of people get tired of traveling and start canceling interviews)

I agree too that 75 is probably enough programs UNLESS he really focused on one region (which is probably the Northeast?). Even then it's probably best not to apply to new programs.

I also encourage you not to consider whether or not there was a "mistake" in his application. Unless you come to the point where he's reapplying. You can't make changes after submitting, correct? Even then, would it be productive? My DH was questioned at every interview about "why" he "had" to go to community college. He had put it on his application thinking it would make him look stronger, since they were dual enrollment courses, but no one took the time to notice he was "at" community college while a high school student. Did community college, the fact that he was not originally premed, that he took extra time finishing school and then took some time off after that hinder his competitiveness? Probably. For some reason most/many programs prefer the young ones who "always knew" they'd be a doc. Plus, they're looking for a reason TO throw out the application, not to keep it. But it's still just the beginning of november and he has almost half as many interviews as he wants (I thought 10 was the number? Maybe it depends on specialty). Rather than focusing on Plan B or what may be going wrong, it seems like it's more time to focus on increasing his odds of matching, rather than plan for the worst -- he still has time to court his current program hardcore, to reach out to any of the attendings he knows at other programs, to get any docs anywhere with a connection to a program to make a phone call for him, and then to call programs himself and express enthusiasm. If it were my DH, that's what I'd encourage him to do.

Keep your chin up

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Has he considered also applying in gen surg? For a prelim or a categorical spot. DH had several prelims in his gen surg class (first year Uro is gen surg intern year). Honestly, the prelims had an absolutely brutal time at DH's institution. They were trying to do regular intern work while also applying again for categorical PGY2 spots in their 4 days off per month. Some of them got them, some of them matched to re-do intern year. That being said, it might be easier than not matching at all.

I know if DH had not matched, he would have applied in Uro and gen surg for the following year to ensure that he matched. I don't know if he would have done SOAP or just done a research year - in Uro, you can make that decision after match because it's an early match (in mid January). Knowing what I know now, I would have rather had him match ANYWHERE in Uro or anything else than take a chance on SOAP/re-applying. Intern year sucks, especially in a surgical specialty, and I'm so glad we got it over with. I definitely would not re-do intern year with a 6 month old again...that being said, we made it to the other side and 2nd year is so much better!

Keep us posted!

[diggitydot]

What new hell is this?

My DH was questioned at every interview about "why" he "had" to go to community college...

Dude, seriously? DH was never asked about undergrad shit on the interview trail unless it was just some getting-to-know-each-other small talk that no one cared about. Even then, it was only about where he graduated.

Welcome! My husband is also trying to match this year (Rads). I completely get where you coming from, it's been super stressful. We're here if you need anything!

[Pollyanna]

Look, beggars can't be choosers as they say. The goal is to match, not to match within a certain radius of your ideal location. Listen to all these wise folks when they tell you that. The good news is that he is getting interviews from programs that know him. They are looking past the issues with his application because he is a known quantity to them. You only need one interview to potentially match. While it would be nice to have more you can work with what you've got. I would just encourage you to go into this season with the mind set of matching, no matter where that may be.
Understand this is a tell it like it is group of men and women. We will not sugarcoat this road to make people feel good. We care about each other and support each other through hell and back. Try not to be put off by our direct nature, we post this way because we honestly care about all our members and know the hell that lurks behind each turn in the path.