Newbie questions...

Aw, crud! I'm sorry.

Poky, I'm sorry to hear about your OHSU denial. Try again though ... keep your chin(s) up and plug along!

[houseelf]

Welcome, I'm sorry about your news.

Kelly

[spotty_dog]

Well, at least the waiting's over.

"unable to offer you a spot".

*sigh*.

I feel horrible. If we were willing to move, he'd have gotten in any NUMBER of other places, but we both love the PNW, and own our house, and my job is here...and this is absolutely the *worst* place to want to live if you want to apply to med school.

I am so sorry. I've been there. Three years running we got our hopes up for OHSU, and they were dashed. But the third time around we ended up out here, and it's really worked out well in so many ways. Best wishes to you both.

[poky]

We're starting to recover from the initial shock, and he's working on the AMCAS and trying to figure out where to apply this year; I have some questions:

1) Has anyone here been able to make a living-mostly-apart relationship work while in med school? I ask because if he doesn't get accepted at OHSU again, but gets accepted somewwhere else, we're contemplating the possibility of maybe him getting an apartment and me staying here but flying out to see him for...we're thinking about a week to a week and a half out of every month (my job is flexible enough to allow me to work remotely sometimes, just not all the time). We're reasonably sure the finances would work out OK, we're just wondering if we'd be trying something stupid that's never in a million years going to work. Of course, if we did this, and it wasn't working out, it would still be possible for me to relocate any time later, too...

The plusses I see with this kind of arrangement:
- I wouldn't have to move or change jobs (and me moving out of the PNW, where *all* of my support network is, is a *huge* deal to me)
- He wouldn't have me underfoot demanding a lot of his time while he's studying (at least for the 3/4 of the time I wasn't there)
- We wouldn't have to sell, rent out, or exchange our house

The minuses:
- More expenses (probably not an issue if he gets into an MSTP program, and even if he doesn't, possibly offset by the difference in tuition between OHSU and most other places, plus if I had to change jobs, I probably wouldn't be making what I am now - like I said, we think the finances would work out OK)
- being apart 3/4 of the time

Thoughts? Other things to consider? Keep in mind, we're in our mid-30's and pretty settled, will have paid off our house by then, have been married 5 years, and together almost 10, so not exactly starry-eyed newlyweds.

2) My impression, having read a lot of stuff from applicants to OHSU, is that scores and grades and experience and such *only* get you to the interview. Once you're one of the interviewees, the playing field is completely levelled, and it's *all* based on the interviewer's impressions from then on out. Nothing else matters in the final ranking. Do any of you know if this kind of thing is true at *most* schools? Does it always come down to interviewing skills, and whether the particular interviewers you get liked you? Reading this question over, it really sounds like sour grapes, but I promise it's not; I've seen multiple profiles of applicants with MCAT scores *15 points* lower than my husband's, without as much experience/volunteer work, etc., who were given offers or placed highly on the wait list last week.

[poky]

I meant to open that last message with a big thank you to everyone who offered their condolences. Like I said, we're getting over the shock, but we're both still pretty distraught, and extremely frustrated. Knowing we're not alone helps.

Thanks.

-Sandy

[SuzySunshine]

Sandy,
I haven't responded but I've been reading along. My DH and I spent the first 14 months apart of medical school and it is hard but do-able. My question to you though, is if you do this for medical school? What about residency? Residency match works very much the same way and worst case scenario he could end up not matching there for residency either. That could mean 4 years apart for medical school and 4+ years apart for residency.

Sorry to give you something else to think about. Good luck.

[spotty_dog]

I can't offer any input on doing the long-distance thing. We'd been together nearly five years at the start of medical school, we've been together 8.5 years and married for three now, and living apart just isn't an option. The month he did an away rotation was horrible enough; that's just the nature of our relationship, we thrive on regular face-to-face interaction. You may be different; many very healthy couples are. I think DC Jenn did the LD thing for a while?

As for the applications thing -- I am going to have to say yeah. It's partly OHSU; they're very picky about the demographic they want represented in their institution. But it's also admissions in general. My husband had excellent academic credentials, a high MCAT (38? 39?), though he didn't have a lot of patient *care* experience he had two full years of patient *contact* -- three years running he got lots of interviews, few admissions. As far as I can tell he ended up at Case because they are working so hard to improve their profile -- his scores helped boost their averages; they admitted him with tons of financial aid as incentive.

It happened again for residency. Disgustingly high board scores, Alpha Omega Alpha honor society, honors in every single rotation, strong letters, lots of extra ED time -- he got interviews at every (highly competitive) program he applied to, yet he matched near the bottom of his rank list. Again we lucked out, the program that wanted him is actually a good match for him, blah blah. But I think deep down we're both really scared for post-residency job interviews. When all the chips are in will we find ourselves taking this kind of a hit again, when it REALLY matters?

So, if there's something to learn from your experience and ours, it may be that interview skills are the make it-or-break it factor in this medical world.

And to follow on Cheri's post -- med school alone, with an MSTP program, is going to be much more than 4 years as I'm sure you know. Could you really see yourself at the other end having spent more than half your marriage in different cities? And then residency on top of that.

Does the OHSU admissions office offer to meet with declined applicants? DH's med school did that -- starting the year after he got in -- and he heard good things about it. He applied twice and I think that would have been helpful advice to get after he didn't get in.

Things certainly change, but as of 5 or so years ago, DH's med school weighed the interview with other factors. But it is luck of the draw for who you get as an interviewer -- both for med school and residency.

[alison]

As far as the LD thing, dh and I did it for medical school (5 out of 6 years). This was before we were married though--and I was perfectly happy to take trips to Germany 2x/year. Back then we were a financial disaster. No debt, but we could barely afford to see each other. My parents often helped me out with flights to Germany and when I did get to see dh (either in the US or in Germany), we didn't have enough money
to buy each other gifts nor eat at restaurants... Nothing. We just had each other to FINALLY be with. It was so romantic.

After we were married, we were prepared to do LD for at least 2 years of residency, because with my PhD program in Chicago,, I wouldn't have been able to move until the writing phase of my degree. We lucked out though, and he's in Chicago. LD relationships aren't easy by any stretch of the imagination, however I don't regret any of it, and if he were to do his residency elsewhere, then we would have survived, like we always have...

As much as I love the Northwest and would want to move back someday, is there a way to apply out of the region? I know you're secure in OR with your job and family, but would opening up to other areas give you a bit more flexibility and the security of obtaining a spot? What about CA? Colorado?

[poky]

Wow. Thanks, all.

General reply first: Yes, I realize that residency is a whole other kettle of fish, and that things might not work out there, as well...the deal is that if it comes down to it, I can always relocate at pretty much any time. I was mostly wondering "would we be stupid to limit ourselves to schools I can visit easily and frequently from Portland if the very idea of me staying here is doomed from the start and not worth it?" - from the replies, it sounds like it'd be hard, but not impossible, so I think at least for this year, we'll keep that in mind as a possibility, and limit where he applies accordingly. Last year, he applied *only* to OHSU and UW; so far this year, with "flights aren't too long or difficult or expensive" as a criteria, we've got about a dozen schools on his list. Is that still too few?

Does the OHSU admissions office offer to meet with declined applicants? DH's med school did that -- starting the year after he got in -- and he heard good things about it. He applied twice and I think that would have been helpful advice to get after he didn't get in.

Yes, they do offer this. However.

At least one person we've been in contact with (through studentdoctor.net) has now applied to OHSU for three years in a row. Last year, he placed on the wait list, and was just a few away from getting in. He went through their "helpful meeting", did *every single thing* they recommended, and this year got a flat rejection. My husband's going to do it, just to see what they say, but we're *really* cynical about the OHSU admissions department at this point, and don't have any confidence at all that he'll get a *real* answer as to why he was rejected.

As much as I love the Northwest and would want to move back someday, is there a way to apply out of the region? I know you're secure in OR with your job and family, but would opening up to other areas give you a bit more flexibility and the security of obtaining a spot? What about CA? Colorado?

There's some reason we didn't put CO on the list (they don't accept very many out of state people, maybe?), but there are 4 or so CA schools on his list for this year, yes, along with one or two in Texas, um..now I can't remember the rest. WashU is one, Northwestern is another.

About OHSU, is it possible they don't take very many nontraditional students? Some institutions like to stick with the young frsh out of undergrad type. I'm not sure if this is the case with OHSU but I would check. My DH had a PhD, amazing grades, scores, volunteer stuff, patient contact, etc. but some programs still told him that he was too old. He was 31 when he applied and 32 when he started. I would check out the age angle.

GAH!

Actually, OHSU isn't bad in this respect at all; their *average* accepted age is higher than most (mid-to-late 20's, IIRC from when we look at that last year). Hadn't thought to look into that for the other places he's applying this year, though. Which programs told you flat-out that 30 was too old? Doesn't seem worth it to even apply to those if that's their attitude. Yet another limiting factor. *sigh*.

We *were* told by friends who have friends who work at OHSU that they're a little wary of older applicants who might *question* "the way things are done", rather than just take what they're told as gospel. Which...I can understand it to a point, but it really seems like a pretty crappy attitude to have toward students who are supposed to be intelligent.

Ah, well. It'll all work out somehow. Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it. I'd love to hear anything about schools that you know don't like older students...or ones that particularly do, if such a thing exists...

-Sandy

In the past, CU has taken very few out of state students and the out of state tuition is very high.

[SuzySunshine]

My experience is that most state schools take very few out of staters for graduate programs, including medical school.

[Vanquisher]

Most schools in the west take very, very few applicants from out-of-state. I know you love being where you are and are contemplating the long distance thing, but from my perspective, it just isn't worth it.

I would apply to a ton of schools, all over the country. Then, you can pick and choose if he gets multiple acceptances. The more schools you apply to the better chance you have of getting in. I think it is playing with fire to only apply to a few schools - even with great credentials. This medical world is so fickle and crazy.

The question is, really, what is most important to you as a couple and as an individual. If your marriage is more important than your job, then you should weigh that highly when considering a LD relationship. I don't think a LD relationship is ever good for a marriage, and in the best case scanrio, it is HARD. We did it for a year before we got married, and then a few months here and there for away rotations. I don't see him enough as it is. When you are flying in to see him, you may be free to devote your time to him, but he may not be very free to devote his time to you. I like to grab all the time I can, but that's just me.

So my advice is:

1. Evaluate whether medicine is his only choice for career and if so what he and you are willing to sacrifice for that. I doubt there are many people in the medical profession who haven't had to sacrifice a lot. Medicine and sacrifice go hand in hand.

2. Apply to schools that have good nontraditional applicant and out-of-state admission rates regardless of geography. I would aim for closer to 30 schools. You can't bank on ANY school. They look for different things and you just never know. I don't think you can geographically limit your application - especially in the west. Texas and California schools are notorious for only taking Texas and California applicants. Don't even bother with Utah, Colorado, Arizona - they don't really take any.

3. Go where you get in. Try to take your job with you, transfer, or get a new job, but go with your husband.


I know that sounds like I am picking medicine over your career, and believe me, if you knew me, you would think I had temporarily gone off the deep end. Medicine is just one of those careers that can't be done on your terms. Unfortunately, that's the black and white of it. I just think that medicine is a hard enough strain on your lives (especially residency) without throwing LD relationships and those kinds of perameters into it.


Good luck!

Re: Newbie questions...

Any suggestions on what kinds of things I can do to help? Any tips on applications, especially to just one school (anyone else done that?)?
-Sandy

Hi there.... Well this is sort of strange and not exactly what your asking but maybe it will help. My husband and I thought it would be good practice to take MCATS and apply to OUHSC as a test run. We wanted to help get out the jitters and see where he needed to study more. As it turned out he received a high score on his MCAT and was accepted to OUHSC. He had planned on retaking the MCAT this summer and doing the typical shotgun effect on the application process. Everywhere from caribean schools and from coast to coast in the states. Fortunatly enough we saved all that time and money because he was accepted during our trial run. Pretty groovy! :thud: