b.c vs a.c

But, I think what is really the issue there is if there is a criticism - overt or covert of my particular parenting choices. Because, I think, if a nonparent were to complement my parenting choices/styles I definitely don't think I would be put out!

Good point. If I'm willing to accept a compliment from someone who "just isn't there" yet, I should be willing to listen to what they have to say that may be critical. And if I feel it doesn't apply to me, there is no need for me to try to make their point less valid b/c they aren't a parent themselves. As Kris said - there are other parents out there who do things differently, and I just discount their advice as "not for me".

[Rapunzel]

But, I think what is really the issue there is if there is a criticism - overt or covert of my particular parenting choices. Because, I think, if a nonparent were to complement my parenting choices/styles I definitely don't think I would be put out!

Good point. If I'm willing to accept a compliment from someone who "just isn't there" yet, I should be willing to listen to what they have to say that may be critical. And if I feel it doesn't apply to me, there is no need for me to try to make their point less valid b/c they aren't a parent themselves. As Kris said - there are other parents out there who do things differently, and I just discount their advice as "not for me".

Now, the question is: Are we all willing to take advice on being a medical spouse from people who have never been medical spouses?

Are we willing to face criticism on our approach to being a medical spouse from someone who has never been there, done that?

Wouldn't we have to erase like a third of the threads on this site if we couldn't get upset at non-medical spouses just not "getting it"?

As I said above:

Let's liken this to being a medical spouse:

How many of us complain about the comments we receive from non-medical spouses? How many of those comments are, we find, completely and utterly off the mark? How many times do we, as medical spouses, just want a "hallelujah chorus" from other people who "get it"?

That is the closest analogy I can make to parenting advice from non-parents.

[Vanquisher]

But, I think what is really the issue there is if there is a criticism - overt or covert of my particular parenting choices. Because, I think, if a nonparent were to complement my parenting choices/styles I definitely don't think I would be put out!

Good point. If I'm willing to accept a compliment from someone who "just isn't there" yet, I should be willing to listen to what they have to say that may be critical. And if I feel it doesn't apply to me, there is no need for me to try to make their point less valid b/c they aren't a parent themselves. As Kris said - there are other parents out there who do things differently, and I just discount their advice as "not for me".

These are good points. I am sad to think someone left because of this. I hope that she knows that even though I may have said something in the past (don't remember right now ), that I do welcome differing opinions.

[PrincessFiona]

Let's liken this to being a medical spouse:

How many of us complain about the comments we receive from non-medical spouses? How many of those comments are, we find, completely and utterly off the mark? How many times do we, as medical spouses, just want a "hallelujah chorus" from other people who "get it"?

That is the closest analogy I can make to parenting advice from non-parents

True....we'd have to shut the site down But...that doesn't mean that we don't listen to what they are saying and even take something from those conversatiosn...

But then again...I always know that I can come here and say "oh, gawd, someone said x, y, z about being a dawkter's wife" and you guys will get it.

Now, the question is: Are we all willing to take advice on being a medical spouse from people who have never been medical spouses?

Are we willing to face criticism on our approach to being a medical spouse from someone who has never been there, done that?

For me it's never criticism, it's just "oh - it must be SO WONDERFUL". Sometimes I try to correct, sometimes I let them have their fantasy. People can say what they want about being married to a doctor.

[Rapunzel]

True....we'd have to shut the site down But...that doesn't mean that we don't listen to what they are saying and even take something from those conversatiosn...

But then again...I always know that I can come here and say "oh, gawd, someone said x, y, z about being a dawkter's wife" and you guys will get it.

And, see, Kris, that is the best way to relate this to people who don't have children yet. We are all on this website because we share one very important thing in life - we are in it for the long term with a person in medicine. It has it's own peculiarities. It's difficult. It's something that you may not fully appreciate nor understand unless you've been there!

For all of you nonparents out there: This is the best way for me to describe parenting and the world we inhabit. It IS a divide. It's just that way. Just like we all complain about people who aren't medical spouses not "getting it" - parents often feel the same way about nonparents. Just life, I suppose.

And, Jesher, it still rankles that those people are making assumptions without any sort of experience and little real knowledge - doesn't it? At least, we complain about it here all of the time - so I would assume it rankles.

[Rapunzel]

But then there's a big difference between someone who knows *nothing* about being a doctor's spouse, and someone who has one in the family or has read books about the medical marriage, etc.

Just like there are nonparents who have a sister or brother with kids or who have read books about parenting right?

[Flynn]

Okay -- I'll throw my hat in here....

As a former teacher it really pissed me off when parents commented on how I wasn't a parent. My experience as a teacher was discounted (by a small number of parents), my degrees were discounted, and I would "obviously" get it when I had kids? WTF? Get what? Get that SOME parents enable the hell out of their kids so by the time I get them, they are NIGHTMARES???? Get that? Yeah, I get that!!!!

It annoyed me then and it still causes my eyes to roll now. I cared about my students ENOUGH to really enforce the rules with an encouraging talk and a kind smile. Was I a hard A$$ for the sake of -- heck no, I actually felt guilty I wasn't tougher on some kids but the way society is today....I was seen as stickler for rules. Some parents really loved that about me (students too I might add) -- some did not.

ITA with the next point:

Let's relate it to other points of discussion. I cannot tell you how many times I have been "shut down" by people who say, "well you've never been X so your opinion doesn't mater". WTF, I can't have an opinion because I've never been in a situation? That is just crap as far as I'm concerned. If it is the case that those without children cannot possibly understand then I guess we shouldn't have opinions on anything but what we've experienced. There are lots of things I've never experienced but I feel I have well educated opinions.

Now, does actually being a parent give you a different perspective? Sure, but that does not mean it's the only perspective. It also does not mean that someone looking from the "outside" cannot give you a fresh perspective. I have received wonderful parenting advice from my dear friend who is unmarried and without children. No matter what kind of spin you put on it it is just a slam to tell someone that they won't understand or that their opinion will change once they have children.

:!

To say that parenting is challenging just doesn't cut it. It's hard, it's emotional and it's humbling. I've definitely been tested! I don't mind 98% of the time when non-parents comment on parenting. I like studies...it might not work for me but information is power IMHO. A fresh objective opinion is just that, a fresh objective opinion.

When friends say things to me like:

• I'm just having the hardest time weaning
  my child just won't go to bed at night
  my child won't drink from a sippy cup

...and imply that my kids must be "just easy" because I didn't struggle with these issues for as long as they have........yadda yadda yadda....I take a deep breath and pretty much not comment. Yes, I had my issues with these topics but you have to figure out what your goal is and work towards it. Change takes time and it's not perfect. It might be hellish for a few days or a few months but in the long run if your goal is for Johnny to drink out of a sippy cup after he is weaned at 12 months it's completely in your power to make it happen!!!!! It's not rocket science for goodness sakes!!!!!! Chances are, the adult (MYSELF included) is contributing to the problem.

Some parents are so close to the issue they can't see the forest for the tress. I've been there -- I WAS the forest. I believe I was an evergreen during that mountain to climb.

I think a well thought out point should be taken as a well thought out point. Nothing more nothing less.

The flip side of this is that parenting is so PERSONAL. YOU WANT to do everything right the first time because you're smart and you love your kids. It's hard to try and try and try again. It takes energy, dedication, intelligence, and a whole lotta love. When someone who isn't a parent makes a comment about parenting it can be hard not to take it personally because that particular struggle is still raw.


This topic is tough...any way you slice it.

Big hugs...

[Flynn]

Sorry -- double post.

[Rapunzel]

So, Flynn, you knew what it was like to be a teacher and it rankled you when parents who were nonteachers questioned your teaching abilities.

And, we, as medical spouses, become rankled when non-medical spouses see fit to inform us of what our lives MUST be like as medical spouses.

It's a theme....

[Flynn]

[quote=Tabula Rasa]

But, I think what is really the issue there is if there is a criticism - overt or covert of my particular parenting choices. Because, I think, if a nonparent were to complement my parenting choices/styles I definitely don't think I would be put out!

Good point. If I'm willing to accept a compliment from someone who "just isn't there" yet, I should be willing to listen to what they have to say that may be critical. And if I feel it doesn't apply to me, there is no need for me to try to make their point less valid b/c they aren't a parent themselves. As Kris said - there are other parents out there who do things differently, and I just discount their advice as "not for me".

Now, the question is: Are we all willing to take advice on being a medical spouse from people who have never been medical spouses?

Are we willing to face criticism on our approach to being a medical spouse from someone who has never been there, done that?

Wouldn't we have to erase like a third of the threads on this site if we couldn't get upset at non-medical spouses just not "getting it"?

As I said above:

Let's liken this to being a medical spouse:

How many of us complain about the comments we receive from non-medical spouses? How many of those comments are, we find, completely and utterly off the mark? How many times do we, as medical spouses, just want a "hallelujah chorus" from other people who "get it"?

That is the closest analogy I can make to parenting advice from non-parents.

[/quote:71440]

I'm REALLY bad about this.
My sheepish hand is raised high here.

Great points!

[Flynn]

So, Flynn, you knew what it was like to be a teacher and it rankled you when parents who were nonteachers questioned your teaching abilities.

And, we, as medical spouses, become rankled when non-medical spouses see fit to inform us of what our lives MUST be like as medical spouses.

It's a theme....

Yes -- but it's annoying because they questioned my teaching BECAUSE I wasn't a parent.

Now as a parent, I see why they felt the way they did -- we do LOVE our kids to pieces and instinctively we want to save them -- but I wouldn't have changed a thing. IMO being a good parent is making a lot of unpopular decisions --- saying no often, and NOT putting it off on other adults.

[alison]

well...I sometimes chuckle at parenting advice from non-parents too..though..admitteldly, I get a good laugh over some parenting advice from parents

Uh-oh. Are your talking about me?!?!
I post quite a bit in the parenting section; I don't know why.

[PrincessFiona]

Really though, it isn't actually about getting advice from a non-parent or non-medical spouse etc....is it?

I have had plenty of friends who were not med spouses give me great suggestions for my marriage or on coping personally even though they really didn't get it....

It is about how advice is ....doled out sometimes...and...I'm not saying that this is true to this website, anyone on this website...and I confess that I really only skimmed that thread before it was closed. It's not directed at anyone here.

What gets my hackles up is anyone who makes a firm statement of opinion as if it is the only opinion and they are right..particularly when they don't have actual experience in that area. Again..I am NOT suggesting anyone here on this website...I'm talking about my experiences as a mom and medical spouse.

Example: The non-med spouse, non-married friend of mine who said loooong ago "Leave him. I would never, ever tolerate my husband wanting me to move like this with no notice. Aren't you an equal partner? Doesn't your career count? You need to stick up for yourself." Her attitude about this was unbending, all-knowing and really....well...a bit over-the top. We argued, I hung up and cried ... but she *knew* better than I how to run my marriage. Irony? She married a military man and...has moved countless times and given up her own career. :>

Now...to poop on myself.

One of my dearest friends has 5 children....4 of whom are now grown...when we met, I was pregnant with Amanda, thought Andrew was...perfect..and that we were never going to have any parenting problems at all. I gawked over some of her parenting choices AND (judgement, judgement) felt free a few times to let some of my opinions fly...particularly when it came to the raising of her daughter, Fionnuala. The fact that this woman is still my friend is truly, truly a testament to her ability to love and forgive me. I was appalled...when her then-4 year old jumped all over my sofas and ran through the house while she continued to talk with me without flinching.....and one day, I actually told her....(OHHHHH, the SHAME) that I would NEVER have 5 children because I didn't think you could pay each child the attention that they deserve. I have no doubt that she felt that this was an indictment of her choice and that I felt she was responsible for some of her teen boys wilder ways. Ohhh..but I did.... and it was....

The payback, the payback....she got a good chuckle when we had baby #4, but baby #5 has been purely...joyful for her. "What? You're having #5, Kris? Are you sure that's such a good idea?"

Thank God she is a forgiving person...I was so self-righteous that it's embarassing.



kris

[Rapunzel]

Bottom line is that if we are open minded enough we can get good advice from anyone. A non-medical person can give good advice about getting through struggles in marriage, a non-parent can give good parenting advice, a male can be a good OB/GYN even if he doesn't have the "parts", etc. It's all about how we *receive* comments from other people.

You know, I think that the above is correct *if* those comments and advice are coming from compassion. As in, I've had outstanding male OB's who could never, ever know how I felt pregnant but they were compassionate. And, honestly, the best ob's (male or female) I've had were the ones who bowed to my own personal experience in pregnancy. While they could do well in advising me on the medical aspects for which I had no real training - I was good at advising them on the realities "on the ground". I have encountered a male OB who was simply...clueless. I dropped him like a hot potato.