Sexualization of females in media & impact on our girls

[Rapunzel]

They don't have these kinds of issues in germany...Of course, I remember being horrified when we lived in germany and I was pg with Andrew. I was sitting at the OB's office and two 14 year olds were there getting birth control w/o their parents. I couldn't let it go (and still haven't forgotten it) and dh basically said "so, you'd prefer they get pregnant like in America?"

I'd say if you have 14 year old girls having sex (protected or not) that IS a problem.

A fourteen year old is not emotionally mature enough to cope with the emotions and situations involved in a sexual relationship. And, if it isn't a "relationship" and is just casual sex - then that is even worse.

I don't think Europe is free from these problems (obviously not if it is normal to give children birth control there because these children are having sex at such young ages). I have a friend who recently got back from living in Germany and Belgium for the last six years and another who lived in Germany for a couple of years not terribly long ago. Their take on European society was that it was MUCH worse than American society - that they (Europeans) had basically thrown their hands up in the air and given up on morality. Of course, both of these women are daughters of teenage girls - so they got to experience first-hand the European cultural impact on their children.

And, it isn't a "problem" to have a problem with irresponsible sexuality - either portrayed in the media or among children and youth. The entire European creed of "American puritanism is part of the problem" is rubbish. The problem is greed. And, it's our "American puritanism" that enables us to actually SEE that there IS a problem. Whereas the Europeans turn a blind eye and don't have any problem with children so sexualized that they are, well, having sex as children. If American "puritanism" is the ability to tell right from wrong then perhaps Europeans need more of it!

[PrincessFiona]

except...14 year olds are having sex in america. Let's at least throw that on the table. Obviously, if my daughter decides to go down that road, I will send her to a nunnery.....but...at least those 2 fourteen year olds were wise enough to go to a doc, get examined and use something.

kris

[Rapunzel]

except...14 year olds are having sex in america. Let's at least throw that on the table. Obviously, if my daughter decides to go doen that road, I will send her to a nunnery.....but...at least those 2 fourteen year olds were wise enough to go to a doc, get examined and use something.

kris

Yup! Children are having sex here, too!

The difference appears to be that the European response is, "Who cares?" Whereas you can still find American voices saying, "Ummmmm, children having sex is a problem, people!"

If anything the European attitude is creeping into this problem too much. Embracing the hypersexualization of girls is not the solution.

[PrincessFiona]

Or you could look at it like this.

The american response is to say "not my kid" and "talking about sex makes them want to have it" and the european response is to educate their children about all issues emotional and physical and not agree with their having sex...but at least allowing them to get some sort of protection if they make that choice.

[PrincessFiona]

btw...you are hard-pressed to find hypersexualized little girls clothing in germany....whereas here...it's tough to find normal jeans/tops for little girls.

I don't think europe is the guilty party here.

[Rapunzel]

Or you could look at it like this.

The american response is to say "not my kid" and "talking about sex makes them want to have it" and the european response is to educate their children about all issues emotional and physical and not agree with their having sex...but at least allowing them to get some sort of protection if they make that choice.

Embracing the hypersexualization of girls is not the solution.

The American response is not "don't talk about sex". Good grief! Every single public school - high school down through elementary - has some sort of unit on sexual education. In fifth grade I was taught in a sex ed class by a nurse what oral sex was, how you could get pregnant, how to prevent it, etc.

Talking about sex isn't the issue.

It's the laissez faire attitude towards sex that is the problem.

So, you get education in BOTH areas of the world - but one area pushes their young girls towards sex enthusiastically - and the other one does as well BUT has a few voices to protest such misuse of girls and sex at the moment.

[Rapunzel]

btw...you are hard-pressed to find hypersexualized little girls clothing in germany....whereas here...it's tough to find normal jeans/tops for little girls.

I don't think europe is the guilty party here.

Oh, no. I am in no way saying America good, Europe bad.

I'm saying that the idea that it is "American puritanism" causing this exploitation of girls and sex is ridiculous. It's greed pure and simple.

And, it's this "puritanism" that gives some voices in America the ability to tell right from wrong and point out the problem.

[Rapunzel]

So, reading Ladybug's post, we have two issues here:

1)Greed - people are making money off of this matter in our culture - via cultural channels such as movies, magazines, television programs, toys, clothing, etc.

2)Bad Parenting - parents don't mind their children being exposed to this hypersexualization and, ultimately being exploited by the people in #1.

[PrincessFiona]

Europeans don't push their kids into sexual behavior early .....

I also don't think it's fair to blame on parents. Now that I have a tween daughter, I realize how difficult it is to control everything that they see or hear or get from friends. It's very, very difficult. I doubt that there are many parents out there thinking that they are raising a daughter who'll be out in the garage smokin cigarettes and getting pregnant at 14 and...I don't think every one of them has been negligent. It's just hard raising children...and I think the pressures of this time are unique (as were the pressures for our parents). There are no manuals and for every problem, you can hear 20 different solutions.

It's exhausting.

Of course parents mind.....but there are no easy answers....and even though we each think that our answer is the *right one*...only time will tell. I sure hope we're all right.

[Rapunzel]

I agree - there are no easy answers. Our culture is digging a deep pit for itself (ie see "Fall of Rome" references).

I'll also add: My solution for my children is to equip them to handle this once they are more mature (ie in the Fair Queen's words I'll let them be children much longer than any of their peers are able to be in this day and age). And, I will give them the armor they will need while still in a safe environment before tossing them out to the world.

And, after that, after I've done my best, they are on their own. They make their own choices. And, all I can say then is, "There, but by the grace of God, go I!"

[PrincessFiona]

Feel free to save this, print it, and pop the corn later.

Hey...I think you guys should already be poppin' and watching ME. Oh..that's right...you guys already are

Umm, I think that it's a pretty sticky situation all around. Our 10 year old had the sex talk at school last week...the conversation went something like this:
DS So today at school we had "the talk"
Me Oh, what talk?
DS You know, THE talk
Me Oh how did it make you feel (we had already had it here a bit ago)
DS Uhh, I soo don't see why I need to know how to insert a tampon!
Me In shock Uhhhhh, maybe you'll need to buy them for someone one day (I know stupid comment, but I was totally on the spot)
Me Is there anything else that made you uncomfortable?
DS no
Me Are there any questions you have?
DS Ummmm, yes
Me OK, go ahead
DS Is Santa Claus real???

I guess my point is that sometimes it's hard to know how much and when to equip them with knowledge. I would rather prepare them wayyy ahead of time, but not overwhelm them or open doors I would rather not. I used to say that I hoped my kids would wait until they were married to have sex, but since have changed my unrealistic (maybe) stance. We are teaching them that what we really want is for them to respect themselves and the person they are with. I don't feel that a 14 year old kid knows themself half as much as they need to to share something so intimate....I also think that open communication is vital, although we have discovered it can sometimes be shocking. I have been suprised at how difficult it is to teach boys in our society to truly respect women....I hear things they come home from school saying and although sometimes they might be just testing, they actually believe some of the trash they hear. We are tying to raise them to be gentle, kind, loving boys who will grow up to be the same kind of men. That is certainly not a "cool" idea of what society seems to dictate for boys. DH was a geek, but is exactly what I want our boys to be like...if that means they don't have a girlfriend until they are 20 so be it!

I was brought up a strict Christian and when I was 16 and at a bible church camp we were told by our counsellors that anything was OK to do as long as there was no penetration....WTF???? I look back now and think about how stupid and confusing that was.
My best friend was a mormon and came from the most lovely family ever...I still love them to pieces and see them often. She was sheltered from everything ( I was a close second) and when she went away to college she went nuts...drinking and sleeping around etc. I think because she was so overwhelmed and underprepared, it was all too much. It truly ruined a huge part of her life and her poor decisions have altered her life forever. The dilemma for us is to know where to draw lines...so far it has been a lot of gut and a little literature.

Not sure where the Canadians fit into the European vs American culture thing... it's pretty hard to generalize like that . DH and I were both raised British and let me tell you, there was no giving up on morallity, I had the most conservative parents around.

[Momo]

It's greed pure and simple

This is exactly what I was getting at w/ my mention of capitalism being a huge culprit in this. Let's face it greed and the bottom line, at the expense of our kids innocence, is a formidable foe to us parents...there will always be some way & someone willing to influence kids by peddling something, some idea, some image, some song, some product that will contribute to this . Let's face it, it really is a battle of epic proportions when you look at how well equipped the enemy is (the ones to make $$$).

[Vishenka69]

I don't think Europeans are ignoring the problem, they just choose to deal with it differently. You can't rely on schools to provide information about sex. Every school is different and most of the time the kids are not paying attention and not taking the class seriously. I'm glad my mom had a talk with me because I certainly would have no clue if it was up to my schools.

What I feel schools leave out of sex ed are the STD and babies references. Kids don't learn that sex is where babies come from and the surest way to catch something. Many STDs although containable are not completely curable. Giving BCP to teenage girls shouldn't be considered the worst possible solution.

[Stella]

What I feel schools leave out of sex ed are the STD and babies references. Kids don't learn that sex is where babies come from and the surest way to catch something. Many STDs although containable are not completely curable. Giving BCP to teenage girls shouldn't be considered the worst possible solution.

My middle and high school sex ed classes talked about STDs and pregnancy. They brought in different examples of BC and talked about those options. They made us watch a birth. :| (Not that any of it actually worked though - 1/2 of my cheerleading squad was pregnant by 18. )