Imus

[pstone]

I did not do it, don't blame me. I am one that does not believe the playing field is not level. Everyone had equal chances, neither me or my wife came from money, and my wife is first one to even go to college in her family. Look forward or look backward.

I don't justify, condone, or do anything but lothe hate and its practices in the past, but every group of people has been persecuted by someone at sometime.

[pstone]

If Al Sharpton would call for those rappers to be fired, I would say he was not racist either, but he has not.

[PrincessFiona]

Now, now...no fighting........

:tsk:

[Rapunzel]

Yes, well I also have Native-American in me and Jewish relatives for that
matter. I understand moving on, but what some of you are failing to realize is that what happened in America still effets a whole lot of blacks. Do I sit around all day crying because of slavery and discrimination in America? No. But sometimes it is hard for some to move on when blatent racism is still thrown in peoples' facec TODAY on a regular basis. I have never considered my group to be a "victim," because in the mist of discrimination my family has still succeeded.

When the hell did I blame your for anything Peter?

Now, I am not Peter - but let me just say that there are still people today who publically state they would not vote for a person into the Presidency solely because that person is Mormon (read The Slate on MSNBC.com for more on that). What happened long ago does, to some extent, still affect the present.

There is still BLATANT bigotry against Mormons today. But, we do move on in the sense that we prove the bigots wrong by our success and happiness.

I'd say Native Americans - to some extent - are actually enjoying some popularity in our culture nowdays. In a very real sense many Native Americans do NOT succeed in America today because of the bad behavior passed down through their own families. I'm talking about alcohol and drug abuse, obesity, and other behaviors that are learned and part of a culture that destroys success and happiness. It exists even in my husband's family today. But, the alcoholics he is closely related to - the people who make choices that condemn them to lives of poverty- these people do that to themselves. They cannot blame some people long dead or awful laws in place long ago. At some point each culture must accept responsibility for the behavior it perpetuates.

[pstone]

You personally? Perhaps I misunderstood.

How DARE you tell someone to get over it, when you have do idea of how those experiences have impacted their families!

If so I am sorry, I have nothing personal against others views, just my own vies.

I won't hijack the thread to a discussion against affirmative action, or the continual effort by some to make me feel guilty for something that happened however long before I was around.

So anyway, turn off the radio if you don't like Imus, or don't buy what his sponsers have to offer, or NEVER watch CBS again. For me it is clear by the coverage that there is more to it then just Imus. Enough.

[Meenah]

Please let us agree to disagree and not take things personally.
:adminpower:

[madeintaiwan]

I don't believe that everyone has equal chances. I appreciate Peter's philiosophy in regards to look forward or look backward. But let's be real. Although I am biracial there were not going to be excuses made as to why I did or didn't succeed in life based on my race. That just wasn't something that could be used as an excuse in my family. At the same time, I got a lot of crap and I watched my immigrant mother get a lot of crap. My first grade teacher told me that my parents should burn in hell for having a mixed race child. I spent years being ashamed of my parents and fearing that they were going to be punished for having me. Let's not kid ourselves that the world doesn't view and treat certain groups of people differently based on the way the look or speak. And unlike "white" people, people of color can not attempt to hide behind their skin color. Everyone makes assumptions about people based on their appearances. Skin color is obviously the most apparent difference amongst people.

I understand that Mormons have experienced (and still experience)discrimination. Many of my friends are Mormon and I have watched the news while in Park City. But if you are white and Mormon no one would know you were Mormon unless you told them. And quite frankly the repeated mentioned of the 1970 Mormon law is a little over played too. I think it was a ridiculous law but lets not get started on the numbers of people who have been killed period in this country purely based on their color, religion, language, choice of spouse throughout the history of this country (and gotten a way with it) whether it was a law or not. And wasn't it something like 1980 that Mormons finally allowed blacks to be members of their church? I have read the scriptures and doctrines about blacks and segregation in general.

I don't feel that anyone should be punished for something that someone else did 100 years ago or even 10 years ago or 10 days ago. I think that Imus and the like are idiots but free speech and whatever. I don't listen to him, it's shock radio. And it no surprise to me when racists comments are said on all ends. Please, we live in a racist world. How else can any one group of people get up to the top without putting the other groups down. I don't think we should be hyper sensitive but I think we should realize that while we are all Americans, it is quite frankly a very different experience to be a white American, Irish American, Mormon American, Jewish American, Asian American, ect. And unless you personally are doing the discrimating, then no you are not to blame but at the same time you can't simple say get over it, grow a thicker skin. You don't know what it's like to live that particular person's life, just as I have no idea what it's like to be white or Mexican or Catholic. And such I wouldn't say get over it... you think affirmative action sucks, grow a thicker skin. Instead, I can see the frustrations caused by affirmative action. I think affirmative action should be based on SES, because poor people are just poor people no matter what color you are. And even if you didn't come from money, if you've never truly been poor (one year my mother only made 8,000 and we didn't and have never taken public assistance) then you can't speak about even level playing fields. I truly believe anyone can "make it" if they truly want to. But let's not think for a second that there aren't more obstacles to overcome for some.

[Momo]

davita > < pinkpickles

well put!

[Flynn]

davita > < pinkpickles

well put!

very well said. bravo.

[SuzySunshine]

Fired!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18072804/

Pundits don't think he'll end up on satelite either:

http://mediabiz.blogs.cnnmoney.com/2007 ... unt-on-it/

[Rapunzel]

Well, Davita, you might think it is a light thing to have discrimination because you are LDS. But, it does exist. And, while you might think it is silly to point out the legality of killing a Mormon as recently as 1976 - it's a reality. Period. It wasn't legal to kill someone who was black, Native American, Asian, etc. It wasn't legal to kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, etc. It was legal to kill Mormons. Blow it off if you want - but it wouldn't hurt to know a bit more about the history of the United States (from appeals to a President for the mass murders, rapes, and abuse to stop to having the U.S. army literally invade Utah after thousands were forced to leave their homes).

Frankly, we hear quite a bit about a few groups that have really been abused by others over the last couple of hundred years. But, guess what? There are others - many others. And, while they don't get the publicity they still exist.

I'm just surprised that anyone - anyone - could just blow off the fact that a law existed only thirty years ago that it was legal to kill a group of people in this country because of their religious beliefs. That is a big deal - anyway you slice it. And, it is a big deal that my father's job was affected because some of his superiors had a serious problem with his religion. We were affected economically by this bigotry - so don't for a second say it is "less than".

And, I'm married to a biracial man. And, he did face a lot of discrimination simply because his father chose to marry his mother. His own father's family basically disowned his father.

And, as someone who has truly been poor married to someone else who has truly been poor - you succeed based on your OWN choices. You sink or swim because of what you do with yourself. Blaming others is a cop out. As someone who grew up truly disadvantaged I believe that. And, my biracial husband who grew up truly disadvantaged believes it, too - even more forcefully than I do if you heard him talk about it!

The fact is that we live in a world that is full of people who do NOT treat others in the way that they would desire to be treated. Either that or those people who are hateful think so poorly of themselves that they DO treat others the way they themselves feel they should be treated.

So, to recap:

*You succeed on your own merits.

*Just because a person's obstacles in life aren't right in your face or you cannot immediately assess what you think those obstacles are when you just pass them on the street - does NOT mean that person has less obstacles than you assume.


The bottom line is that, yes, all of us who have faced this discrimination have to "get over it" because that is the only way to make the world a better place. We have to overcome our obstacles and throw them to the side. We have to grow thicker skins and prove naysayers wrong. I don't care how much melatonin your skin has or what your cultural heritage is or what religion you practice - we all have to move on with our lives. But, let's not play the game that one particular group has it profoundly worse than another. Because it is a fiction.

[Rapunzel]

Oh, and Davita, thank you again for demonstrating the complete ignorance so many have about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members.

Blacks have been members of the church since the restoration in the late 1800's. One of our former bishops (and one of my husband's good friends) was black - and was descended from freed slaves who crossed the plains into Utah. One of the reasons the mobs in Missouri were so hateful towards the Mormons was because these mobs and their leaders were frightened of the overall anti-slavery attitude of the LDS church. This all happened immediately prior to the start of the Civil War, remember, and Missouri was a huge battleground over slavery in particular.

Apparently you haven't read as much as you think about us or our beliefs. Or you are getting your erroneous information from blatantly anti-LDS sources. If you would like to learn more the following website is chock full of information: http://www.lds.org
For more information on black persons in the LDS church now and in history there is a website I found with a great deal of information as well:
http://blacklds.org It is not run by nor affiliated with the church - but it seems to have its facts straight.

BTW Even if this falsehood were true - it's a redherring. And, it's akin to me pointing out that blacks owned slaves as well (which is actually true). It's a pointless detractor from the actual issue. But, I suppose I should thank you for going out of your way to smear my religion further.

[madeintaiwan]

I meant to say priesthood. I am well aware that there were black members earlier in the church without your very nice links which I have already visited prior to your suggestion.

Summary of Important Dates

1836: In March, Elijah Abel, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.

1836: In December, Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Seventy.

1844: Walker Lewis, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.

1846: William McCary, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.

1900: Enoch Abel, the son of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.

1935: Elijah Abel, grandson of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.

1958: All black Melanesians (Fijians) are given the priesthood (blacks in the Philippians even earlier)

1978: Revelation on Priesthood gives the priesthood to all worthy men regardless of color.

1990: Helvecio Martins becomes first black General Authority Seventy.

Additional blacks were ordained in the early years of the church.
For more information see the History Timeline.

http://blacklds.org/mormon/priesthood.html

[DCJenn]

OK-

None of us can speak for what the other person has experienced.

Yes, people are biased against Mormons, there are people biased against well- every other religion, too. and yes, we should speak up and defend against ignorance and bigotry in all cases. Perhaps our Islamic members would like to expound upon what a delight the US has been since 9/11. We've exuded tons of understanding as a society there, haven't we?

And race is STILL a huge deal in this country. and is sex. and sexual preference. and every other 'ism'.

That is the point of firing Imus. Sure he's a blowhard and has made tons of money for CBS & MSNBC. and the rest of them are ignorant boobs who also are making a ton of money for their respective companies.

But- just maybe this will make at least one person think before they speak. and maybe, just maybe, this discussion has raised consciousness of ALL people about how language is very powerful. Maybe not. But this level of discourse around the country cannot be a bad thing.

Jenn

[Momo]

OK- But- just maybe this will make at least one person think before they speak. and maybe, just maybe, this discussion has raised consciousness of ALL people about how language is very powerful. Maybe not. But this level of discourse around the country cannot be a bad thing.
Jenn

Thanks Jenn !
That's what I was trying to get @ w/ some of my posts!
As a society, there is nothing wrong, with hoping we can evolve to be more civil and responsible w/ our language and hopefully attitudes towards others!