Anyone afraid of universal healthcare?

[PrincessFiona]

The real point of health insurance though, Jenn is to cover the real catastrophic stuff. It IS the younger, healthier crowd that pays in for the older bunch.....and the risk for the insurer is that sometimes the young do get sick.

Unfortunatly, just as with a major car wreck (to use your analogy), a major illness can strike any of us. We are all busy thinking "it can't happen to me" until we have a major health issue occur during pregnancy, a delivery goes sour, one of our children are diagnosed with a devastating injury or illness, etc.

Then we appreciate the safety and security that insurance can bring.

My brother (33) is healthy (as far as we know) but he has no health insurance. He hasn't been to the doctor in probably 15 years and lucky for him....he seems to be ok. But in the back of his mind he realizes that if he is diagnosed with anything potetnially life threatening it will be at a later stage (because he really, really doesn't have the money to go to the doctor and just doesn't make it a priority as a result) and....that he won't be able to pay. Though he works full-time, he will be treated as an indigent in the indigent care clinic in Fort Worth....like a second class citizen.

Go USA.

[pstone]

There are always issues, always people that really can't afford, but we are also a nation of victims, of I can't do that, of it is to hard.

If we (my family) can live on a residents income, manage to make it work with breadwinner working 80ish hours a week then lots of others can make it better in their lives.

Personal responibility needs to be brought back to our world here. The working poor have cable TV and Internet, every thing costs money and really....lets stand up and help people get ahead, not give hand outs.

Okay, off my rant...sorry

[PrincessFiona]

Who is talking about free handouts? Seriously...why is it that in so many minds univeral healthcare=free handout? Who had said that people shouldn't have to practice personal responsiblity and also pay into the system? No ONE.

BUT...On a residents salary, you could not afford health insurance (if it weren't provided for you by the program as *benefits*)

Lets talk then about how we can provide the opportunity for more coverage for people by making health insurance less expensive.

What about....nationalizing the health insurance industry to make it not be a profit-driven industry?

That would be the moral thing....though certainly not the *capitalistic* thing to do. If we're not willing to take the moral step then...I suppose we'll have to look at govt. subsidies or ways to substantially lower costs without affecting quality.

kris

[JaneDoe]

Personal responibility needs to be brought back to our world here. The working poor have cable TV and Internet, every thing costs money and really....lets stand up and help people get ahead, not give hand outs.

Okay, off my rant...sorry

Generally, I stay out of the debates, but I can't help but respond to this. Do you really understand how expensive health care is? I'm sure you are insured through your wife's employer, and perhaps you pay a portion of the premiums and co-insurance. Just as an FYI, what you are paying now is NOTHING compared to what it costs to privately insure a family.

While in residency, our health care was cheap. Now that we are "in the real world" our health care insurance costs will be the second largest monthly expense next to our mortgage payment: $1000 per month to insure our family of four. That it is our second largest expense is saying alot because I imagine that we have an above-average mortgage payment. Our health insurance premiums will be more than our student loan payments and we have $130,000 + in student loans. I'm only talking about our premiums, I'm not even including our deductible which is $500 per person for in-hospital costs (like my son's recent ear tube surgery). After the deductible, our insurance company only pays 80% of our health care. That is outragously expensive!!

We're lucky that we can afford that, but the average Joe cannot! I don't know who is talking about hand-outs here, but health care is unaffordable for many who work extremely hard. My dh sees them everyday. He sees the painters, house framers, plumbers, electricians, just about any sole proprieter out there working his tail off to make a living but can't afford health insurance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for personal responsibility. But c'mon I don't think a lack of personal responsibility is the problem with health care today.

[PrincessFiona]

My dh sees them everyday. He sees the painters, house framers, plumbers, electricians, just about any sole proprieter out there working his tale off to make a living but can't afford health insurance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for personal responisibility. But c'mon I don't think a lack of personal responsibility is the problem with health care today.

Oh come on...you know that it is just their own darned fault that they became painters, framers, plumbers, electricians etc. My brother frames houses btw.
They should have just all become dawkters...why should we pay because they didn't choose the most noble of professions?

After all, I can frame my own house, lay my own electricity, and install my own toilets ... and if I can't, I'll just hire an illegal immigrant to do it while pretending to be really tough on illegal immigration.

:>

kris

[PrincessFiona]

OH...it's going to be a fun election year! :>

[Laker]

People that don't have coverage can always move to countries that have universal health care.

[DCJenn]

Believe me, after GWB was elected, if it hadn't involved AWOL, we'd have gone...

Jenn

but in all seriousness, part of the reason why my husband hates adult medicine is because many (certainly not all) of the killer issues are completely controllable. (like my MIL who watched her husband die from complications from lung cancer AND has had two heart 'events' but yet still smokes 2 packs a day...why should we all have to pay more for her health care. meanwhile my mother who has her PRE-cancerous lesions removed long before they turn into melanoma has been told that she's 'high risk" and her insurance is costing them 550 bucks a month.) (and there's a difference between poor and stupid. my MIL is stupid. my clients are poor- some are stupid but mostly their problem is ignorance not stupidity) (and who stupid is it that oral surgery is covered but dental visits are not by most state medicaid programs...)

[pstone]

Perhaps DCJenn said it better.

I don't want to pay more, and we pay to much already because of the choices people make. The employer provided healthcare system does not mean it is free for us! A benefit is part of our income, it is part of what she works for. If it cost the employer 800 a month to buy that insurance, then we are paying 800 dollars a month for our insurace. A benefit is part of the income package, the idea that it is some gift is just wrong. Give us the 800 dollars a month and we would go buy whatever health insurance we could find, or I would work myself at night to pay the shortage.

I don't mean to imply that health insurance is cheap, or that it is not overly expensive, but before I want any MORE of my taxes, or have my wife make less money for her hard work, I want to see other decisions made.

Keeping a burn patient alive for 12 weeks because a family could not understand the chance of survival was less then 1% drives costs through the roof. I am sure you all know of similar throw the kitchen sink at the problem becase we don't want to get sued, or because we can't make life and death decisions as a culture.

Or because the smoker needs X billion in care.

The facts are cost will continue to go UP, and that reimbursables have and will continue to go DOWN.

As far as highering an illegal immigrant, well the savings for getting them off the 'free health care' system would go a long way to insuring americans. Hope your guest worker program requires health insurace, because if they are here, they will get care.

Back to my privilaged life and free healthcare from the generous residency program.

[JaneDoe]

But, that is the nature of insurance: spreading the risks/costs among many. It's not just health insurance that works that way. For instance, with auto insurance whether or not we have been in an accident, our insurance premiums are influenced by the the stupid choices other drivers make.

Granted with other types of insurance, like auto, you will pay more if you have filed a claim, been in a wreck, etc, and insurance companies will drop you if you file too many claims. But, let me ask you: do you really want health insurance to work in a similar fashion? I don't think that would solve our current health care woes.

That would mean that you will pay more as you age regardless if you are obese, have diabetes, high blood pressure, etc., because, generally speaking, you WILL need more health care when you are older. If you do develop a condition that costs the insurance company too much, than they could, of course, drop you. It would also probably mean that you pay more if you have young children because children have a ton of visits to the pediatrician, immunizations, etc. After all, why should someone who chose not to have children have to pay higher premiums to subsidize all those who have children? My point is that the high costs of health care today is not a simple problem of people who make poor choices sucking the health care system dry. It's multi-factorial.

[poky]

That would mean that you will pay more as you age regardless if you are obese, have diabetes, high blood pressure, etc., because, generally speaking, you WILL need more health care when you are older. If you do develop a condition that costs the insurance company too much, than they could, of course, drop you. It would also probably mean that you pay more if you have young children because children have a ton of visits to the pediatrician, immunizations, etc. After all, why should someone who chose not to have children have to pay higher premiums to subsidize all those who have children? My point is that the high costs of health care today is not a simple problem of people who make poor choices sucking the health care system dry. It's multi-factorial.

Um..but that *is* how it works in the world of individual (non-group) insurance. I'm running into that right now; we don't any health care underwriters on the board do we? I could use some advice on how best to fight the denial I got yesterday.

If you have *any* health condition, and you don't have employer-provided health insurance, good luck getting anything but a super-expensive HIPAA plan. And the rates on those (and most individual health insurance, for that matter) *do* go up as you age.

[JaneDoe]

That would mean that you will pay more as you age regardless if you are obese, have diabetes, high blood pressure, etc., because, generally speaking, you WILL need more health care when you are older. If you do develop a condition that costs the insurance company too much, than they could, of course, drop you. It would also probably mean that you pay more if you have young children because children have a ton of visits to the pediatrician, immunizations, etc. After all, why should someone who chose not to have children have to pay higher premiums to subsidize all those who have children? My point is that the high costs of health care today is not a simple problem of people who make poor choices sucking the health care system dry. It's multi-factorial.

Um..but that *is* how it works in the world of individual (non-group) insurance. I'm running into that right now; we don't any health care underwriters on the board do we? I could use some advice on how best to fight the denial I got yesterday.

If you have *any* health condition, and you don't have employer-provided health insurance, good luck getting anything but a super-expensive HIPAA plan. And the rates on those (and most individual health insurance, for that matter) *do* go up as you age.

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but have you looked into getting insurance through your husband's medical school? You would, of course, have to pay for it, but it is cheaper (I think).

[poky]

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but have you looked into getting insurance through your husband's medical school? You would, of course, have to pay for it, but it is cheaper (I think).

No, not a stupid question at all.

The fact of the matter is, I have at least two other choices. My own employer offers a PPO plan that I can opt back into (I'm getting pay-in-lieu right now), and I could get coverage through DH's school, probably.

My problem is my own. I'm very attached to my HMO. I've been with it all my life, I know how it works, I *like* how it works...but I can't just transfer the coverage I have with them now to our new location (even though they operate there, too), because the different locations are completely different entities.

So I'm going to appeal the denial; if they continue to deny me, I'll probably fall back on my employer's plan.

I'm sick of all the changes this move is forcing me to deal with, darn it. *sigh*.

National health coverages does not necessitate you paying more per month. I pay a total of 30% of my salary in taxes, of which, IIRC, about 5% is national health care. Every single person in this country (I live in Italy) is guaranteed the same treatment, whether you are the pope (yes he is covered too) or a homeless person. If you have cancer, you get treated. Period.

Waiting time for non-emergency diagnostic treatment can be long (2-3 months sometimes) and the hospitals might not be brand-spanking new, but at least I never had to worry about getting sick or being involved in a major car accident while I was unemployed.

Also, national coverage and private insurance can go hand in hand. For those who can afford it, they can purchase additional private policies to cover private care (for instance, we go to a private dentist and I see my gyn in her private practice). But at least we've all got basic coverage here.

Honestly, there is no reason that the US should not be able to work this out. From an outsider's point of view (ok well not really since I am American), it just seems more like people do not want to be forced to change a good thing... so long as it's good for them... who cares about everyone else?

[Vanquisher]

What will universal healthcare do to doctor's salaries?

Yeah, it's not about the money, well, okay, it is for me! Watch out, I'm in danger of turning right!

I think healthcare should be a basic human right, but I am afraid for the future of our income.