Why I Want A Wife

[Rapunzel]

That article assumes all men expect those things of a wife. It assumes, basically, that all men are pigs. It's quite a derogatory collection of assumptions about all men - all husbands.

Well, my husband is much more like Lily's. I do acknowledge that there are probably a whole lot of men that DO fit the stereotype in the article (about men, that is). But, I cannot agree that I want a wife because those stereotypes just do not fit my experience.

I also do not understand why the author of the article holds such resentment towards motherhood. To quote her:

I want a wife a wife to keep track of the children's doctor and dentist appointments. And to keep track of mine, too. I want a wife to make sure my children eat properly and are kept clean. I want a wife who will wash the children's clothes and keep them mended. I want a wife who is a good nurturing attendant to my children, who arranges for their schooling, makes sure that they have an adequate social life with their peers, takes them to the park, the zoo, etc. I want a wife who takes care of the children when they are sick, a wife who arranges to be around when the children need special care, because, of course, I cannot miss classes at school.

Well, the fact is that the majority of this is just a part of being a full-time parent. Now, if both parents are working then this is definitely an issue that needs to be sorted out. But, for those of us who are parents as our full-time job this is kind of a no-brainer. And, I definitely do NOT resent my job.

The rest of the article is based on the assumption that all men see wives as servants. And, while that has been a battle-cry of the modern "feminist" movement for several decades, it isn't any better than the mysogeny that you can find among some men.

You must get rid of the life you have planned to live the live you have.

Thanks for the support dude. Easy to type but harder to do. Some "words of wisdom" are harder to penetrate the heart. But then again if you think it's so easy... I didn't mean to vent but obviously this article just made me explode, well that's better than imploding. Yeah it would be nice if the sting of the bee wouldn't sting but guess what it still stings for a time. Here's to being a freshmen in 08. Now I have laundry to do.

[GrayMatterWife]

What are your thoughts for yourself, think she was wrong?

I will probaby get boo-ed here, but why does feminism always seem to be a sounding board for a pissed-off woman striking out at perceived injustices suffered under the "male-constructed social heirarchy of western society"? Sometimes it seems like a study in victimology. How about this? Take responsibility for your situation. You made a choice to marry him, and you made a choice to remain married to him. If he treats you as disrespectfully, as the author's husband clearly must, either require that he change or leave him. Empower yourself. Don't just whine about the grievance. Do the ultimate feminist thing: assert yourself.

If my husband demanded that I do all of that stuff and treated me as badly as how this woman clearly must be treated, I would not tolerate it. I'm not a frickin' doormat. And I'm not going to waste my life being angry because my husband sees me as household staff rather than an equal partner.

On the other hand, if you explicitly or implicitly agreed to this treatment, take responsibility for that, too. You allowed yourself to be treated like a handmaiden. But that certainly doesn't mean that the injustices of the past must continue. Marriage has a contractual element to it. Renegotiate the terms of your contract. You have leverage. Granted, asserting leverage is hard: you have to be prepared to live up to your end, force the other party's hand, and walk the deal if you can't get reasonable terms met. This doesn't have to be done in an unloving, unreasonable way (unless, of course, your husband was the author's husband--I think I would let him know about our "renegotiated contract" through my lawyer and service of papers...). But, in the end, if you won't assert that leverage, then you have no one but yourself to blame.

[pstone]

Thanks for the support dude.

Well that came out the wrong way, I feel your pain! That is just my mantra on hard days. It was meant as support, sorry.

Abigail the difference between you and the author is so wide though. You are a lawyer, right? Well consider wanting to be a lawyer, but to survive having your family you couldn't. You are stuck, in support mode, for what seems forever, while your husband is suceeding and you are just living in and out doing the mudane but important stuff to make the family move forward. She wasn't in my opinion whining (though some do) but says, when will you take some of this load for me? When can I have my turn, and in her erra she wasn't sappose to have a turn. I don't think their were many women lawyers in 1970. And very few where probably able to be into a competitive firm.

In her reflection, she sees now that he was stuck socially and didn't have much of a platform to support her. Today, men can choose or not choose to support their's wife's dream. But sometimes the end all of finances, time, and career balance from the husband is hard to center. So as Davita said we have to make sacrifices, every family does.

But no I don't think she was whining.

Thanks for the support dude.

Well that came out the wrong way, I feel your pain! That is just my mantra on hard days. It was meant as support, sorry.

it's cool

[PrincessFiona]

Abigail,

It would be great if life were that simple....but it isn't.

I am a wife. I am a mother. I have a professional degree... I am a sahm.

But DAMN...I wish I had a wife



I chose my husband and chose to have a big family and....I wouldn't go back and change either of those things.

BUT....that doesn't mean that I don't feel completely overwhelmed by the laundry that 7 people create :thud: .... that I don't daydream about a high-powered corporate job that would take me away from the "she looked at me, he poked me" and constant state of chaos that we seem to live in. I feel exhausted from chasing after the children, dealing with homework and schedules and spending such a large part of my day void of adult contact (with the exception of coming here).

I also feel like our choice to get married/have a family took away my career goals. That's just me being honest.

I had no idea how my marriage to a med student would change my life. Instead of forging straight ahead with my own plans I was following him...supporting him...and I did so willingly and I reached out to support him as best I could. I also didn't know how becoming a mom would change me. I went from accepting a slot in medical school and looking for a nanny to sobbing at the thought of returning to my job (which I quit the day I was supposed to return )

It can be hard to accept the changes that life brings...even when we choose those changes.

I do sometimes feel quite envious of my husband and I look back....but I of course recognize that I made these choices. I also recognize that I can choose to change my life.

My dh would support me 100% if I said "I'm going to med school". Despite his feelings (see call room) he says that of course his wife would be the exception He was the one telling me to apply for the job that I recently decided not to apply for....and he is the one who finally took me by the hand to the local University and registered me for the class..... I get in my own way because I am always weighing what I feel is the best thing for my children and my husband against what I want for myself.

In my dream world, I would have a nanny, be a doctor, and work part-time :> . In reality, I couldn't even get myself to apply for a job that would require working in the summer because as hard as it is to be at home with the kids, I can't imagine missing out on the fights, the mess and...the fun trips to Canada....


Life is just too complicated to draw down into black/white terms.


kris

[GrayMatterWife]

Abigail the difference between you and the author is so wide though. You are a lawyer, right? Well consider wanting to be a lawyer, but to survive having your family you couldn't. You are stuck, in support mode, for what seems forever, while your husband is suceeding and you are just living in and out doing the mudane but important stuff to make the family move forward. She wasn't in my opinion whining (though some do) but says, when will you take some of this load for me? When can I have my turn, and in her erra she wasn't sappose to have a turn. I don't think their were many women lawyers in 1970. And very few where probably able to be into a competitive firm.

In her reflection, she sees now that he was stuck socially and didn't have much of a platform to support her. Today, men can choose or not choose to support their's wife's dream. But sometimes the end all of finances, time, and career balance from the husband is hard to center. So as Davita said we have to make sacrifices, every family does.

But no I don't think she was whining.

No problem. Perhaps I misunderstood the question. I was focusing my thoughts on whether the author's argument holds water today--not as whether it was historically valid. In that sense, I see her thesis as antiquated and, in today's context, yeah, a little whiney and blame-placing. Today is not the 1970s. Women are not victims of disempowerment and social oppression. When women enter into the social contract of marriage, they do so of their own free will (rather than under financial necessity or social pressures) now more than at any time in western civilization. And in that marriage dynamic, women are far more socially, politically, and finanically empowered today--to make sure that the load is shared in a way that allows her to realize more of her dreams. As we benefit from feminism, we also must share in the responsibilities of equality--which means asserting ourselves, not acting as though our choices were put upon us and from which we cannot escape.

But, it's America! We can always agree to disagree.

[PrincessFiona]

Today is not the 1970s. Women are not victims of disempowerment and social oppression.

Really?

When I started in the neuro lab to get my MS in molecular bio and my then PI found out that I had children he called me into his office and said "what if...you are running a gel and your child's school calls and says that you have to pick them up? How will you finish your project? What if your kids are sick? Who will watch them so that you can come to work? This can never work out." Keep in mind it was my first or second week and I hadn't skipped a beat and had worked and done everything asked of me. He wanted to switch me to a less important project "just in case" and so I switched to a different lab. That PI would decide that he wanted to meet to talk with me at 7pm and would call me at 6pm to say "be in the lab in an hour so we can discuss your primers/results/etc". He would hear the kids in the background and make negative comments about my rowdy bunch. He knew good and well that DH worked well into the evening. I would have to call a babysitter to come at the last minute...and several times I would get there only to discover that he had gotten busy in a meeting and wasn't available to talk after all.

He meant no ill will at all...but he did say to me "you should be at home with your children. " He was very "pro-family" and anti-women working.....but he was also having an affair with the PhD student in the lab. Damn republicans. :>

I was very fortunate to have a PI take me completely under his wing, pay me for my time and let me come in and work at my convenience to finish up. He was my biggest supporter and pushed everything through for me in the end...including asking me to leave the room after my thesis defense, coming to the door then and opening it, reaching out his hand and saying "Congratulations, Master's Math...you have earned it."

We don't struggle with oppression? pleeease. No one has ever turned to my husband and said "can you handle this job" because he has 5 children. (Of course, they all know me and that I manage every detail....) He has never been asked that question.

As a matter of fact, when we moved here and he opened a bank account for us, the bank vice president opened the account for us. He asked if dh wanted his degree on his check and dh turned to me and said "what do you think? should we have our degrees listed on the checks"...and commentd about having an MD and an MS listed and how that would look to someone who might steal the checks. The bank manager turned to me and said something to the tune of "oh, you have a master's degree?" In a very condescending tone "are you a nurse or a social worker?" Ummm..first of all, being a nurse or a social worker is nothing to look down your nose at....but he was dripping with condescension. When I told him that I had my MS in mol. biology he was all "you're kidding".

jerk.

kris

[GrayMatterWife]

Abigail,

It would be great if life were that simple....but it isn't.

I don't think I implied that anything was simple. Choices, and the opportunity costs that result, are very complicated. And the results are often unfair. And we often are left wondering what could-have-been. My only point was that in today's day and age, women should take ownership of our choices and not blame husbands for things not turning out the way they wanted--or for the hard, cold reality that we cannot have it all. And that did not seem to be the theme of the original article--which was written in another time.

Every morning when I get up, I wonder, somewhere in the back of my mind: Am I making the right decisions for my family today? How is my decision to work full-time affecting my son? Is the decision not to start a family until we are in our thirties going to be one we regret? Will I regret having left private practice and the salary, to follow DH to St. Louis and work in a going-nowhere government job? Why did I get all this education to essentially be a professional nobody so that my DH may, someday, be a professional somebody?

But, in the end, my choices were mine. It's the downside of liberation, I guess.

[GrayMatterWife]

Today is not the 1970s. Women are not victims of disempowerment and social oppression.

Really?

When I started in the neuro lab to get my MS in molecular bio and my then PI found out that I had children he called me into his office and said "what if...you are running a gel and your child's school calls and says that you have to pick them up? How will you finish your project? What if your kids are sick? Who will watch them so that you can come to work? This can never work out." Keep in mind it was my first or second week and I hadn't skipped a beat and had worked and done everything asked of me. He wanted to switch me to a less important project "just in case" and so I switched to a different lab. That PI would decide that he wanted to meet to talk with me at 7pm and would call me at 6pm to say "be in the lab in an hour so we can discuss your primers/results/etc". He would hear the kids in the background and make negative comments about my rowdy bunch. He knew good and well that DH worked well into the evening. I would have to call a babysitter to come at the last minute...and several times I would get there only to discover that he had gotten busy in a meeting and wasn't available to talk after all.

He meant no ill will at all...but he did say to me "you should be at home with your children. " He was very "pro-family" and anti-women working.....but he was also having an affair with the PhD student in the lab. Damn republicans. :>

I was very fortunate to have a PI take me completely under his wing, pay me for my time and let me come in and work at my convenience to finish up. He was my biggest supporter and pushed everything through for me in the end...including asking me to leave the room after my thesis defense, coming to the door then and opening it, reaching out his hand and saying "Congratulations, Master's Math...you have earned it."

We don't struggle with oppression? pleeease. No one has ever turned to my husband and said "can you handle this job" because he has 5 children. (Of course, they all know me and that I manage every detail....) He has never been asked that question.

As a matter of fact, when we moved here and he opened a bank account for us, the bank vice president opened the account for us. He asked if dh wanted his degree on his check and dh turned to me and said "what do you think? should we have our degrees listed on the checks"...and commentd about having an MD and an MS listed and how that would look to someone who might steal the checks. The bank manager turned to me and said something to the tune of "oh, you have a master's degree?" In a very condescending tone "are you a nurse or a social worker?" Ummm..first of all, being a nurse or a social worker is nothing to look down your nose at....but he was dripping with condescension. When I told him that I had my MS in mol. biology he was all "you're kidding".

jerk.

kris

Yeah, definitely sounds like a jerk!

I have definitely run into my fair share of as$holes in the professional world, too. [Insert emoticon giving the middle finger here...]

But, like I said, it's a free country...we can always agree to disagree on the state of women's interests!

[PrincessFiona]

But, like I said, it's a free country...we can always agree to disagree on the state of women's interests!

true, true....and imagine how boring the debate forum would be if we didn't. :>

[GrayMatterWife]

We don't struggle with oppression? pleeease. No one has ever turned to my husband and said "can you handle this job" because he has 5 children. (Of course, they all know me and that I manage every detail....) He has never been asked that question.

I meant to add: you shouldn't have been asked that question, either. In almost all states, it is illegal to inquire about family status in a job interview.

The last time I interviewed, I didn't bring up the fact that I had a child. I also didn't wear a wedding ring. I wasn't trying to hide anything. I just don't see that as a relevant fact to my qualification for the job, so it's none of the employer's damn business.

My current judge didn't even find out I had a child until I'd been working for him for a couple of months.

My only point was that in today's day and age, women should take ownership of our choices and not blame husbands for things not turning out the way they wanted--or for the hard, cold reality that we cannot have it all.

See in medicine this is not so easy to figure out. The many choices we make, often we dont' understand the fullness of them till after the choice was made. Many women here are stuck with trying to gulp down the conversations of their DH's about doing extra research, or an extra fellowship that they have to have. And if you aren't in medicine you can't weigh as heavy in the, do they really have to have it, conversation. All they can argue is if they feel like they can handle it or not, but with the feelings of guilt as well. Am I whiny to realize the choice I made at 20 to follow my DH into medcine, meant more than I thought? Medicine first impacted me at 21, with a 2 month old baby, and a DH who said he had to do a research job for the summer for two months, leaving me as a new mom, alone, to do it all for two months. Yes he came home every weekend but that was hardly fabulous or much help. Me, I stayed home was sleep drived, and was trying to figure out how to care for an infant as I never had taken care of one before. At the time we both thought it was necessary, so we took the sacrifice. Fast forward to today, with a 5 1/2 year old son, sacrifices still being made, that I never saw at 20 - am I whiny and should "suck it up"?

Or the women who supported their husbands into medicine, and gulp, the decision to go into surgery, and fast forward today after residency, and they are still sacrificing their own wishes. Are they whiny to say things are hard, did they give up their right to voice their own feelings years down the line? Sure you make the choice, you go down it as prepared as you can, but life gets in the way. I think saying they (the SO) should clammer down their voice for good is in fact - oppression.

So my question to you and others: Does taking ownership of your choices mean a life long silence on all sacrifices, hardships that come in result of those choices?

And also to add I think one can take issue with the system, and not always be seen as blaiming their husband. I for one am not blaiming my husband. We took the road, and sacrifices we did for the greater goal - still sucks though.

I also feel like our choice to get married/have a family took away my career goals. That's just me being honest.

I had no idea how my marriage to a med student would change my life. Instead of forging straight ahead with my own plans I was following him...supporting him...and I did so willingly and I reached out to support him as best I could. I also didn't know how becoming a mom would change me

YES, this is so true for me too. While I would happily take night courses right now, if I could. I just can not muster it to send DD to a daycare, when she is to little for me to explain I'm coming back several hours later. I mean she looks at me, sucks her fingers while holding her lovie Meow Meow, and says "Mama UP!" How can I deny that, I mean I never had the option to stay home with my Dad who was a single parent. So yes I have made sacrifices for her - gladly.