Not all residents are smart...

Re: Not all residents are smart...

You all would not believe the tattoos and various other designs and piercings my husband has seen on different female nether regions throughout his career, including residency. NO WAY would he ever take a picture! Come on, isn't that a no-brainer? It is not like this guy was an MS 1 or something.

I definitely think he should be fired. If he is that stupid and impulsive, there is no way he should be around unconscious people brandishing a scalpel.

Sally

He showed a complete lack of respect for his patient, his family, and his career. My guess is people would be calling for his head much faster if he took a picture of a woman who didn't own a strip club. What an ass.

I have to say I agree. I don't think he should lose his license, but I think he needs to go back several steps and learn to respect patients as human beings.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I think we are being awfully quick to condemn a person and flush a career after one mistake. No one died. He didn't murder anyone. Was he a magnificently gigantic moron of a supremely huge nature? YES! Was it right in any way, shape, or form? NO! But, I disagree that hundreds of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of hours of work, years of sacrifice, should just be gone without a second chance, without a thought as to the fact that he can't just go down to the next local hospital and apply for their open chief resident position.

I feel badly for the patient, but you are literally talking about ruining his life AND the life of his family over this. I just can't go there.

[DCJenn]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

and the patients life hasn't been trashed? I mean who wants to become a joke on Letterman or Leno?

Jenn

[mommax3]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

But Heidi, the reality is that in this career, one mistake is often all it takes. And that mistake doesn't have to result in death. If I lost my temper at school and called a kid an asshole, I would be fired. Even if my boss knew that the kid was, in fact, an asshole. No question. A surgeon should be held to the same standard, if not a higher one, because people trust them with their lives. When that trust is violated, it is a BIG DEAL.

I don't know if this guy would ever get a position that would allow him to finish his training, but being fired wouldn't automatically exclude him from the medical profession. It would exclude him from the upper-echelon of post-training jobs, but he has apparently reached his thirties without acquiring impulse control.....so that is probably a good call.

Seriously, I would hope my 9 year old would know better than to take a picture of somebody's uglies. WTH?

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

and the patients life hasn't been trashed? I mean who wants to become a joke on Letterman or Leno?

Jenn

Whatever, my bet is he gets a big, fat check out of the whole deal. In a few months, no one will remember him. I do feel bad for him, but I think there are other ways to punish this resident than ruin his life.

[mommax3]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I'm sure this is not the only stupid thing he has done in his career, just the first time he really got caught.

Totally agree with this. Crap like this doesn't come out of no where.

I think there are other ways to punish this resident than ruin his life.

The resident is responsible for his life being ruined, if that is the way it plays out. Being fired, if it happens, is just the consequence.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

But Heidi, the reality is that in this career, one mistake is often all it takes. And that mistake doesn't have to result in death. If I lost my temper at school and called a kid an asshole, I would be fired. Even if my boss knew that the kid was, in fact, an asshole. No question. A surgeon should be held to the same standard, if not a higher one, because people trust them with their lives. When that trust is violated, it is a BIG DEAL.

I don't know if this guy would ever get a position that would allow him to finish his training, but being fired wouldn't automatically exclude him from the medical profession. It would exclude him from the upper-echelon of post-training jobs, but he has apparently reached his thirties without acquiring impulse control.....so that is probably a good call.

Seriously, I would hope my 9 year old would know better than to take a picture of somebody's uglies. WTH?

Let's not all gang up on me, huh?

I am not condoning his actions. Far from it. He was a supreme moron, but we know nothing about the rest of his work and how it is and has been. If you called a kid an asshole and got fired, you could go to the next school district and easily get a job. He will never be a surgeon, EVER. He would never get in at another program, EVER. He will have a hard time starting over and matching in ANY program. He is seriously tainted doctor goods. Yes, his career is essentially over. It isn't the same. I just can't believe that people aren't willing to give someone any benefit of the doubt. If you did call a kid an asshole, I would have your back.

[MDPhDWife]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

and the patients life hasn't been trashed? I mean who wants to become a joke on Letterman or Leno?

Jenn

Whatever, my bet is he gets a big, fat check out of the whole deal. In a few months, no one will remember him. I do feel bad for him, but I think there are other ways to punish this resident than ruin his life.

This payout is yet another reason he should be terminated. He is a liability to not only the hospital's reputation, but also to their pocketbook.

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I feel badly for the patient, but you are literally talking about ruining his life AND the life of his family over this. I just can't go there.

Maybe he should have thought of that before he took the picture. We all make choices and he chose to put his family and career in jeopardy. He chose to take a picture of this patient. His lack of character is apparent. Again, if this were a woman people would be calling for some type of legal prosecution as well. I'm sure this is not the only stupid thing he has done in his career, just the first time he really got caught.

Umm, it isn't a woman, and who is to say people aren't calling for legal prosecution. I am pretty sure that's coming. If this were a woman, I would feel the same way. We know nothing about this resident other than this little snippet, but we are ready to flush him away as the scum of the earth. People make dumbass stupid mistakes. They do. Would you like it if the stupidest thing you ever did ruined the financial and career aspirations of your family permanently, and the whole world got to scrutinize it?

I really thought we were a more compassionate bunch than that. I only hope I never make a stupid mistake. If you do, though, I am here for you.

[mommax3]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I don't mean to gang up on you, Heidi.....I didn't realize anyone else was posting in here until I had trouble posting myself. And I know a little about where you are coming from and understand your anger at the system. But this is a different offense and I really think he's done.

In the teaching scenario I described, the point is not that people wouldn't have my back, the point is that the trust would have been violated. Period. And although I am sure I could get another job, I doubt I could get the best jobs....some doors would be closed.

Gotta fix dinner and get the kids to a Christmas program....

[Vanquisher]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

And with that, I am done with this topic. DONE. I am sorry if it offends all of you that I have compassion for a resident and his family, a stupid resident who will obviously pay byond reproach.

[DCJenn]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

No one is offended by your opinion.

I'm looking at it purely from a lifetime of advocacy for people who can't speak for themselves- and you can't speak for yourself under anesthesia, either.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for anyone other than the patient, the patient's family and the resident's family. The resident himself? Sorry, he's now a training aid.

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Heidi-- I know you are done with this topic, but I do have your back. Believe me, people make stupid mistakes. I've lived through a few of those in the lives of those around me. I also think the media makes the story as big as possible - and I don't trust inflammatory reporting. The guy did a heartless, dumb thing. I don't think he should lose the chance to sit for his boards, get licensed, etc. because of this. It isn't the same as getting fired from a job-- he's being thrown out of a training program at the end of the road. At least, I think that's what's happening. He won't only lose his chance to advance, but he will lose his ability to be hired in the field at all. No license? No boards? Not good.

In the police force, I've heard that gallows humor occurs all the time. I bet we'd be horrified by some of the crap that goes on there. I think the same kind of thing happens in medicine, with a medical twist. People become their parts. We have to train our doctors to avoid doing that, but it does happen. We've spoken here before about the cracks that are made about fat people in the OR and behind the scenes. That's also creepy. Taking a photo is wrong, but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with ruining some guy's entire career because he took a picture of MY breasts or what have you when I was out. Maybe I just don't care that much, but it would seem out of proportion to me. And that's if I was the victim here.

The strip club thing does come in to play in my mind. This guy is not uncomfortable showing off the private parts of his own employees for fun and profit. Their choice, I know....but jeez. If it wouldn't make me scream for blood I can't see how a strip club guy who whipped it out at a tattoo parlor for a long tattoo job is so traumatized by the experience. I know that doesn't hold water -- but I bet it did come in to play in the mind of the resident (if he wasn't a callous jerk before all this). If it had been a nun with a tat from a former life, would he still have done it? I'm guessing no.

I don't know the details about his "showing it around" the hospital, but DH went through his own brush with inappropriate behavior once - and it was a pack of rumors and misinformation cooked up by office politics. Not this bad by any stretch of the imagination, mind you (just a joke told by someone else he *laughed* at!)....but that does happen. How do you find the truth in something like this? The picture exists, so that's bad. Is it worth his entire medical career? Does hitting the button on a cell phone camera - that instantaneous action in our modern world- make him a pariah? I'm not sure.

[Sheherezade]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

I agree with that assessment, Laura. I think some horrible stuff gets said all the time. I'm not sure that would result in this level of drama. It's the photo that makes the difference. I think residents should get sensitivity training - and be suspended (on their record) for inappropriate behaviors of this kind. I think full fledged physicians - attendings - could be fired if the offense demanded it. (This one would.) I'd do it differently for a resident. He's not a "big doctor" yet. He doesn't have the license and hasn't completed residency. He's screwed before he gets out.

I don't think programs always fire docs for addiction or alcoholism - and that could KILL a patient. This was embarassing and totally inappropriate, but not life threatening.

[Flynn]

Re: Not all residents are smart...

Imagine the steam coming out of the PD's ears when "discussing" the incident with the offending resident.

CAN YOU IMAGINE???????????????????????????????