the ethics of hired help

[Cumberland]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I read that book, and thought that she started off with the intention of writing a book about how difficult it is to get by on a minimum wage salary, and she set off to prove that point, and there was no other opinion possible. I felt she set out to show that working at Merry Maids, Waffle House and WalMart is tortuous drudgery period end of story.

Re: the ethics of hired help

I see nothing wrong with hired help. We had a housecleaner for awhile, but I often times had to go back over her work so it wasn't worth it. Plus I was completely paranoid about her getting injured on the job (she was not insured)....working in a wet shower or on wet tile is an accident waiting to happen. If I hire someone else in the future, I will be sure to go with an insured cleaning service.

[DCJenn]

Re: the ethics of hired help

When I traveled every week and my husband was in fellowship, the only way the house would have been cleaned was with the cleaning ladies.

I kept them once I stopped working (for a salary) and we got the dude and I admit it was a total luxury. We did without other things.

We don't have a cleaning service here but I still have Frank the Pool guy because my husband is far too flighty to be trusted to remember to flush the pool pump once a week.

I figure if people need my professional expertise in various areas of social services- fine, I'm compensated for it. If I need someone in their area of professional expertise, then I respect the fact that this is their JOB. I pay on time. I explain what I need, clearly. I don't ask for more than what I pay for.

It's all about respect. I can't do what they do, they can't do what I do; it all evens out in the end.

Jenn

[Tenacious_D]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I agree with a lot of other posters...I don't see anything wrong with hired help. Just make sure you find a company that you feel comfortable with. When I was sick during the 1st trimester our apartment became a danger zone and we hired a cleaning company and the woman who came was amazing. I treated her like I would want to be treated (offered food, drink etc.) I think it's very similar to hiring carpet cleaners, car service, etc...basically you can always do for yourself but there is an industry that hopes people are willing to spend "excess" income on help. As long as the individual is treated right, there is no problem....I can't wait until I can afford to have her come back on a regular schedule again!

[Phoebe]

Re: the ethics of hired help

"Hired help" helps me. I don't take advantage of them. I haven't used a cleaning service like Merry Maids but I could use some outsourcing to get somethings done. We don't have any hired help now and nothing gets done. I am not above doing it myself. I like to clean, mow the yard, volunteer in my kid's school. However, I can't do it with three young children and DH's work schedule. So... my house is dirty, the lawn needs to be mowed and will be until I hire a babysitter/mother's helper or a housecleaner. My mom was just visiting and did my laundry. Thanks mom. One thing off my list!

[Vishenka69]

Re: the ethics of hired help

We had a cleaning woman during our entire co-habitation in NY (went through 4 of them actually). I always prefer to go on recommendations from friends rather than agencies. When we get a house we fully expect to hire not only cleaning help but also lawn help and handyman help. There's no reason for DH to throw out his back shoveling if it can be outsourced.

I treat any hired help (from cleaning to moving to whatever) as I would want to be treated at work. I'm polite and respectful and compensate them at the rate they quote me. I don't think twice about getting a pedicure or a wax or going out to eat and don't see how making my bed or doing my laundry is any different to outsource than those services.

[Michele]

Re: the ethics of hired help

My cleaning lady came recommended by the other docs at the eye clinic....she comes every other week and I think her husband is a lawyer....so I don't really think she does it for the money....she must like helping others. My MIL cleans houses (has a lapsed LPN) because she honestly likes it. I view it the same way DCJenn does.....it's not my area of expertise and so therefore I pay someone else for their skills/knowledge....just like they pay me to diagnose why their dog's leg shakes at 3am. Seriously? Just go back to bed!

Re: the ethics of hired help

I dont think there is anything wrong with it, but at this point I also cant imagine ever paying anyone to clean my house. Maybe if I was working and had kids?
It is ridiculous for me to feel like that though, I cleaned houses when I was in high school, my Mum has been a house cleaner. It is just a way to make money and we were glad of it. :huh:

[spotty_dog]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I think this thread is just bringing out some of my huge underlying guilt issues.

I'm right there with you, most things that I could do for myself I am very uncomfortable paying for, both because of frugality and because of excessive empathy for the person doing the work. I even feel funny getting my hair cut by anyone but a family friend!

But if you think about it objectively, there are low-level workers doing the "dirty work" in every field. Does someone wash your car? Change your oil? Sew your clothes? Why is it worse for someone to scrub your toilet than to carry away the plate with the big glob of food that your toddler chewed up and spat out?

That's why it baffles me that someone would condemn the simple act of *hiring* household help as unethical. Treating your employees poorly, sure, definitely unethical. But I just see a slippery slope there in the original discussion, and maybe even a bit of excessive privilege (people who have the choice not to take service jobs judging those jobs, and by extension, the people who do work them to make ends meet?)

(BTW, in developing countries, it's seen as pretty much an obligation for the upper class to hire people to work for them in household positions! It's sort of a way of sharing the wealth. At least, that's what we were told when we moved to Colombia. Even though my mom didn't had a work visa so she had to stay home and was perfectly capable of keeping house, we "had" to hire a housekeeper to come in 5 days a week to do the chores and laundry.)

[Vishenka69]

Re: the ethics of hired help

[quote="oceanchild"]Hmm, I always feel a little uncomfortable getting pedicures too.
[quote]
Don't get a bikini wax.

Although I see no underlying problem in hiring help, I can understand where the other side is coming from. My granmother is 80 and pretty sick but she still refuses to get a home attendant (that will be free for her) to help her because she can't understand the need for outside help if you're still capable of doing it yourself. She thought the fact that we had a cleaning woman was outrageous but I refused to discuss it with her. But also because she never had experience with any sort of help and only recently started going out (and even then on more or less special occassions) she is very rude to waiters because she has no idea how to treat them.

[DCJenn]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I kept the guy who cut my grass far longer than I needed to because I knew he needed the money. Finally, I realized that I needed the money more than he did (as I was searching frantically through my medicine chest for shampoo samples)

I look at my clients- high school drop-outs, addicts or recovering addicts, etc and in all seriously, there aren't that many jobs that pay more than minimum. Most places drug test and testing postive for methadone is indicative of other risky behaviors.

So, of the 1/3 of the people who have jobs of the 450 people we serve, most of them are in construction (the men) (painting seems to be the subsector of construction that they mostly work in as the others often require apprenticeships) and cleaning and/or waitressing for the women. and prostitution. There's always a large contingent of prostitutes.

My advice (to myself as much as anyone else) is to remember that people do what they need to do to support their families and themselves and if they're offering a service, such as cleaning my pool then everyone's needs are met.

Can I clean the pool? probably. Can I do it as well as Frank? No f-ing way.

Jenn

Re: the ethics of hired help

All I can say is that it's cheaper and easier than the marriage counseling we would need otherwise.

If you could have heard the fight DH & I had yesterday about housework...

Yeah, I stink at housework. I would love to have another's expertise in an area where I'm not so hot. But if you're asking whether I need it or could do it by myself, the answer is yes. It's just a matter of degrees, though - I want my house cleaner than I have time or even knowledge to do myself.

Someone asked about the original thread. A middle-class lady had gone to a twins meeting with a bunch of "old money," and she basically thought they were all superficial. She was put off by all the talk about their au pairs and gardeners, saying she preferred her simple lifestyle. A couple other people insisted that rich people are just people, too, and they actually can be nice and friendly. And then others chimed in that they have in-home help.

The person who worked for Merry Maids posted later, and said basically what you all said. The maids were paid poorly but rewarded for doing everything quickly, so the cleaning & hygiene were atrocious.

Anyway - I posted something to the effect that treating ANYONE (including rich people) with less than the common kindness and courtesy due to all people is wrong. Not really knowing any old money myself, though, I wonder how much of they way they are reported to treat people is true, because they genuinely feel superior, or untrue, and only the perceptions of people who can't relate. I also wonder whether some of the snobbiness is a long-term defensive reaction to dealing with others' perceptions.

I don't know... In the end, hopefully I'll never forget that the reason I hired help, if I ever do, is because I suck at it.

[Tenacious_D]

Re: the ethics of hired help

I also find that outsourcing help can really help a relationship if neither person loves doing it. I like cleaning but loved it when our cleaning lady would come in....she was far superior than me. I always thought I did a good job but she was fantastic and it allowed for more quality time with DH. just my additional :02:

Plus coming home to a clean house that someone else did makes it seem like a wonderful gift everytime....it really put me in a great mood.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: the ethics of hired help

Yeah, I had some problems with Nickel and Dimed, too. She's really preachy.

No argument from me, there. I was just appalled to learn that Merry Maids restricts the number of water changes you are supposed to make to your mop bucket per visit. They were basically pushing around dirty water. ICK!

[SuzySunshine]

Re: the ethics of hired help

Someone said it and I don't remember who but to me its about time. To get my house REALLY clean DH has to be home to watch Adele. Do I want to spend the limited time I have with DH cleaning? Absolutely not. Right now we don't have any help but once we're done with training we will and not because I think I'm better then the person we hire but because our family time is so limited its better spent together. However my kids will be expected to help out with certain tasks as they get older.