Sarah Palin?

[PrincessFiona]

Any guesses here? I assumed that McCain would pick Romney...it appears that a charter plane carrying Palin arrived in Ohio (CNN).

Of course, he'll announce any time now, I suppose, so all of my guessing is for nothing. At this point, I doubt it would change my mind on candidates, but it would certainly make things interesting.

Clearly, I need a day job!

Re: Sarah Palin?

I just heard that on NPR. It sure would way to mess with the minds of those the HRC faithful who were in it more for "a woman's turn" than what the woman stands for.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I like that she's a mom of 5 too.

As to being in it for being a woman and not what she stands for...that's an interesting thought. It goes along with an email that I sent Hillary Clinton in response to the question that she asked "were you in it for me or for the democratic party". I told her that I am a democrat first...and that I have always been...but that I wasn't just in it for the the democratic party or for her...but that I was in it for ME and for my daughters...and that I am greatly disappointed by a party that stood by and allowed vicious personal attacks against her that were often driven by her gender...and by a society that still accepts this particular form of prejudice. I told her that as a result, I don't know if I can follow her lead and support the party that I have dedicated myself to since I could vote.

I don't expect a response.

I will say this...racism still exists...hispanics, gays and members of other minority groups have to fight much harder still for acceptance. That being said, this form of discrimination is NOT considered acceptable by society. When a toy manufacturer made a monkey stuffed animal this year as an Obama doll, the democratic party flipped out and incredible pressure was placed on this company/individual. Though he protested that it wasn't meant racially ... the implication was so devastating that we were all disgusted. But the Hillary as ball-buster nutcracker? That's not offensive.

I'm sorry. It's where I am in my life now. I am woman...hear me roar because I am sick and tired of working so hard for so little respect and appreciation.

I'm not saying that I would necessarily switch over and vote for McCain if he chose a female....but it would give me reason to pause.

ETA: When IS it a woman's turn? I'm, just curious. We comprise a good 50% of this country and have yet to see a female vice-president or president. We don't support paid maternity leave, social security benefits for women who are at-home moms...we don't support women's rights truly in any party. The only issue people go on and on about is abortion...though it is significant...it is not the issue that impacts the daily lives of most women and mothers.

It is not a woman's turn. That day is long, long overdue.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Sarah Palin?

PS. I blame Kelly!

[Sheherezade]

Re: Sarah Palin?

This whole feminism vs. racism discussion interests me. I agree that Hillary got slammed unfairly simply because she was a woman - and that sexism is more acceptable in our culture than racism. For me, that is a driving factor for NOT supporting Hillary and has been from the beginning. I like her, but I can't see her as electable. She is a lightning rod. That may be because she is a powerful woman. :huh: I feel a strong need to get a Democratic candidate in to office this election because I fell that the Republican agenda hasn't served me as a US citizen. I'm casting my vote to get a Democrat in to office - so Hillary wasn't on my radar from the beginning. I think her odds vs. McCain with the anti-woman climate of our country would be worse than Obama's odds vs. McCain with the racism that still exists.

I'm glad that McCain has picked a female VP (if he has) but I think it will be some time before we get past the "Iron my shirts" and C.U.N.T. organizations. It is disgraceful, but "sexism" exists. I actually feel there is a weird anti-woman backlash that has occurred in the past few years that is more disturbing than the sexism that was the order of the day back in the sixties. There is this violence and anger that is ...scary. Maybe women are actually a few steps behind other races in the equality battle. Maybe biology plays in to it.

If that vague anti-woman sentiment exists in the voting population, I'm not putting up a female candidate for the Democratic party - not when other electable choices are offered to me. I'm not sure what that makes me in the "feminism" ranks but I wanted to make it clear that I am firmly aware of the anti-woman stuff that has gone on this campaign. I expected it and I feared a Hillary nomination because of it. I think the Democratic party is more likely to enact programs and laws favorable to women and families. JMHO.

Re: Sarah Palin?

This whole feminism vs. racism discussion interests me. I agree that Hillary got slammed unfairly simply because she was a woman - and that sexism is more acceptable in our culture than racism. For me, that is a driving factor for NOT supporting Hillary and has been from the beginning. I like her, but I can't see her as electable. She is a lightning rod. That may be because she is a powerful woman.

ITA. It sucks for HRC but I hope that she has paved the way for other less-controversial women to run (the AZ and KS governors, for example).

Now I have to go find out more about this Sarah Palin person. And I had so much to do this morning!

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I agree, Angie...and the platform of the republican party and what they have done to this country over the last 8 years is ... criminal. That being said, the dems have been in the majority and they have not done anything either.

Thomas (who voted for Clinton, btw) made an interesting observation about women. He said that we'll never have a woman vp or pres not because of men...but because we as women hold ourselves back. I agree 150%. We as women can't unite over motherhood (stay-at-home, work; breastfeed, bottlefeed;public, private, homeschool; spank, no spank) and every judgment we make as women and mothers tends to be extreme and negative. Women do not support other women. Mothers do not support other mothers. We have a tendency to be catty and judgmental instead of recognizing that motherhood is hard, there are no easy choices and we are all in this together. Until we as women come together more in support of each other, how can we expect the rest of society to fall into place?

Re: Sarah Palin?

Until we as women come together more in support of each other, how can we expect the rest of society to fall into place?

Sounds like a new signature line, Kris. I agree 100%.

I hope it's clear that my OP wasn't directed at you (re: women in it for HRC rather than in it for what she believes in). ITA with what Angie posted, and I've said several times in the past that I like HRC (although I didn't like some of her methods in the primary campaign, which we can agree to disagree on - I think her advisers and husband misled her), but for me it has been about electability, and I see too many people who just HATE her. Fair or not - that was my original push towards Obama.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Abortion is violence against women.

I disagree.

Violence against women is rape or incest.

Violence against women is not giving them the right to choose abortion if they are diagnosed with a life-threatening illness when they are pregnant.

There is a woman in the Twin Cities right now who was dx with estrogen-sensitive breast cancer while she was pregnant...just days before I was diagnosed with the lymphoma during my pregnancy. She CHOSE to continue the pregnancy despite the fact that her tumor grew out of control due to its sensitivity to estrogen and the rising levels of estrogen during pregancy. Her little miracle baby is just 2 weeks older than Zoe...but the mom is dying.

She had the right to make that choice though....to believe in the life of her unborn baby and to hope that after the pregnancy her treatments would be more effective.

That was her choice....to decide which life might be more valuable if she had to choose.

Can you imagine if the choice was reversed? What if the doctors had demanded that as part of the treatment, she HAD to terminate the pregnancy and couldn't choose? Wouldn't that be terrible?

Sometimes...I think that there are no good choices...but we should be able to choose which path we take.

Re: Sarah Palin?

clever choice ...

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Racism and sexism are equally unacceptable. One is not greater or worse than the other. I see them as the same "cause." Discrimination and injustice is discrimination and injustice. Your feelings are valid and understandable. But try living as both. Imagine what it is like to be a black woman or a woman of any race other than white. I am sure when you see a white woman with 5 kids, your immediate thought isn't, I wonder if she's on welfare or if she's married or if all her kids have the same father. Can you say the same when you see a woman of color with 5 kids? People deal with different struggles every day. Just as I would not vote for someone just because they are the same color as I am, I would not vote for someone simply because they are the same gender as I am. I don't believe that doing so helps the "cause." The best way to help the "cause" is by voting for the person who seems to believe the most in the "cause" and is willing to do things to actually help it.

Re: Sarah Palin?

Well, I guess that answers how he plans to get the HRC defector votes! I imagine that her political beliefs vary though. It also takes care of the age concerns -- she is younger than Obama!

The prior governor of Alaska is also a woman, right? Or maybe I'm thinking of one of the senators -- Murkowski or something? I'll have to go check. I'm assuming that she (Palin) is far, far removed from Ted Stevens.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Racism and sexism are equally unacceptable. One is not greater or worse than the other. I see them as the same "cause." Discrimination and injustice is discrimination and injustice. Your feelings are valid and understandable. But try living as both. Imagine what it is like to be a black woman or a woman of any race other than white. I am sure when you see a white woman with 5 kids, your immediate thought isn't, I wonder if she's on welfare or if she's married or if all her kids have the same father. Can you say the same when you see a woman of color with 5 kids? People deal with different struggles every day. Just as I would not vote for someone just because they are the same color as I am, I would not vote for someone simply because they are the same gender as I am. I don't believe that doing so helps the "cause." The best way to help the "cause" is by voting for the person who seems to believe the most in the "cause" and is willing to do things to actually help it.

I agree with you. Hey...try being a fat, white woman with 5 children. People sometimes do assume I'm a welfare mom. If anything though, they assume I'm not very smart. As a matter of fact, I was discussing with Kelly the other day that when I go out to eat with Thomas, many of the waitresses will ask Thomas (not me) "two separate checks?". That never happened when I was skinny and we were out together in a clearly romantic setting.

I also agree about not voting for someone because they are the same color as you or the same gender. Carrying that thought farther though...if you don't vote for someone that shares those traits, who will do things to help or advance that cause? If you are black man, do you think that a white man will advance your cause? If you are a woman, do you expect a man to be in touch with the issues and further help provide what you need?

It's a fine line.

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Racism and sexism are equally unacceptable. One is not greater or worse than the other. I see them as the same "cause." Discrimination and injustice is discrimination and injustice. Your feelings are valid and understandable. But try living as both. Imagine what it is like to be a black woman or a woman of any race other than white. I am sure when you see a white woman with 5 kids, your immediate thought isn't, I wonder if she's on welfare or if she's married or if all her kids have the same father. Can you say the same when you see a woman of color with 5 kids? People deal with different struggles every day. Just as I would not vote for someone just because they are the same color as I am, I would not vote for someone simply because they are the same gender as I am. I don't believe that doing so helps the "cause." The best way to help the "cause" is by voting for the person who seems to believe the most in the "cause" and is willing to do things to actually help it.

I agree with you. Hey...try being a fat, white woman with 5 children. People sometimes do assume I'm a welfare mom. If anything though, they assume I'm not very smart. As a matter of fact, I was discussing with Kelly the other day that when I go out to eat with Thomas, many of the waitresses will ask Thomas (not me) "two separate checks?". That never happened when I was skinny and we were out together in a clearly romantic setting.

I also agree about not voting for someone because they are the same color as you or the same gender. Carrying that thought farther though...if you don't vote for someone that shares those traits, who will do things to help or advance that cause? If you are black man, do you think that a white man will advance your cause? If you are a woman, do you expect a man to be in touch with the issues and further help provide what you need?

It's a fine line.

True, true.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I thought that was funny too.

Also, is it too much to hope that people don't start dissecting her mothering choices of working, etc?

I don't like HRC but one thing she had going for her is that Chelsea was grown. I would bet there are some people out there who don't believe a woman with children this young can do this job effectively.

I don't vote on veep choices anyway but I just don't want to hear a debate on her mothering for the next 3 months when Obama has 2 little ones at home too. That would be complete BS.