Colin Powell endorses Obama

[Sheherezade]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

I can't answer for Sulky....but I can understand why endorsements can make a difference. The person endorsing (theoretically) has more access to the candidate and more base knowledge in an area to render an opinion than the voter (in some cases). If I was forced to vote for two candidates for a judicial position, I could read everything I wanted about them and come to my own decision. If I wasn't certain or had reservations and you (GreyMatterWife) as a lawyer working in the judicial system offered your advice, it would mean something. You know the system. You are better able to evaluate the skills necessary. You may even know the candidates and have better working knowledge of them than I would have through ads and media. So.....why wouldn't your endorsement hold weight for me?

I think many respect Colin Powell's opinions and see him as a man that knows what it takes to be president. He has also met with both candidates repeatedly. His opinion does mean more than that of ....Joe the Plumber or Joe Scarborough or John Stewart. He is a serious man rendering a serious opinion. I don't find fault with using that information to make a decision. I think it is just as valid as people that vote in a certain way because their pastor/church supports certain moral positions. I may not agree but I respect that the opinion of the Pope on moral matters carries a lot more weight than mine. He's the Pope after all. He's devoted his life to making these kind of decisions!

I really liked Colin Powell's interview. He is an eloquent man.

ETA: Cross post with Sulky!

[Rapunzel]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

I never understood the celebrity endorsements, either.

It says more to me that someone who is plain-talking and 'normal' (like the "Joe the Plumber" person) reflects the average American. I am more inclined to listen to the views of real people than talking heads, celebrities (entertainment or political), or heads of state. Those real people are the ones our government is supposed to serve.

I think it is a great thing about America that someone who is famous doesn't count any more than the average "Joe". In fact, the "silent majority" should count a great deal more than celebrities.

So, I respect Collin Powel - as I would respect any voting citizen of the United States. No more, no less. I suspect that that's the case for many (hopefully most) Americans as well.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Abigail, really it's because as I stated it's Obama's ability with international affairs that worries most. It's not that he couldn't be great at it, but that he has so little experience. So why does Colin Powell help persuade me, because I think he is a very even keel man. Powell has never seemed to come across as crusade seeking, nor has he taken the approach (that I know of) of spilling all manner of evil and possibly evil things about the Bush administration. He seems like a man of principle, whom doesn't play the normal political games. He is one of the few politicians whom I would say seems truly honorable. So to see such an even keel man, whom has such a record, now support Obama, well it makes me think there is more than what is at the surface level. Much of the uneasiness I've had about Obama is the lack of "knowing" him. That for many, makes them like him more, for me it's been one that makes me feel less convicted for him. To me, Powell endorsing him (and Warren Buffet) means there is substance to the man, not just rhetoric. While I don't agree with everything Obama does on his platform, there is plenty I do. So to me, it's about substance.

Also I truly am an independent. I'm for 50% of Republican issues and 50% for Democrat issues, so voting really is not clear cut for me, there is much counter balancing that I end up thinking through. Last time I made the wrong choice

I would love to agree with you.

However, this 'endorsement' appears to be revenge for a party that "did him wrong".

Unfortunately politicians tend to be motivated by things other than principles of integrity. I doubt Colin Powell is any different.

I guess I'm a skeptic.

[alison]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

I've been chewing on what you guys have said about Powell. So, he was thrown under the bus. Why didn't he resign then?

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

I would love to agree with you.

However, this 'endorsement' appears to be revenge for a party that "did him wrong".

Unfortunately politicians tend to be motivated by things other than principles of integrity. I doubt Colin Powell is any different.

I guess I'm a skeptic.

If Colin Powell wanted to throw darts he 1. wouldn't praise McCain as much as he did in the interview where he endorsed Obama 2. Colin Powell has never attacked Bush or his administration in the manner of say Scott McLellan, or others 3. Colin Powell has made it apparent WAY before now that he was unhappy where the Republican party was/is going.

So to take it as revenge, is to take the path of conspiracy theorists IMO, which is fine for you to do, but I don't see substance of revenge what-so-ever.

[DCJenn]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Alison-

You don't quit when you're a military officer. Ever. You stick it out until you can make a graceful exit and then you get the heck out. Unless you're a complete idiot like the Walter Reed head honchos, then you will be asked to leave.

Jenn

[houseelf]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Oh, I don't know, Powell's endorsement at least carries a bit more weight with me than say Justin Timberlake and Ben Affleck.

Kelly

[alison]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Alison-

You don't quit when you're a military officer. Ever. You stick it out until you can make a graceful exit and then you get the heck out. Unless you're a complete idiot like the Walter Reed head honchos, then you will be asked to leave.

Jenn

Thanks for clarifying this. I know nothing about the military, and why it would be unthinkable to quit. Still, he was working in his capacity as Secretary of State at that point... I know that it's probably impossible to separate the two functions - thanks for the clarification. I don't mean to split hairs here; I'm really trying to understand.

[DCJenn]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Alison-

Once a military officer, always a military officer. My husband could no more turn off that part of his brain than he could turn purple and grow wings. I don't know if the job creates the personality or the personality picks the job but that's just the way that it is. (and my husband really is a kind of rebellious guy in a lot of ways, it's just channeled differently)

It's not that they don't think for themselves, because they do and they have to be able to think "outside of the box" in lots of situations. That said, behind closed doors, they may have knock down drag out disagreements but once in public, there is no way they'd say anything critical. That's why you had so many Officers going public with their disagreements about the Iraq war AFTER they got out of the military and why groups like VoteVets.org are doing so well. You don't question the boss in public. Even if you think he's a flaming jackass who is about to put us into a war that will never end. (my words, no one elses...)

It's a different world. Where else in this country does time stop and people get out of their cars to salute the flag twice a day but at our military bases?

Jenn

[madeintaiwan]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

It's a different world. Where else in this country does time stop and people get out of their cars to salute the flag twice a day but at our military bases?

Jenn

I forgot about this until now. What times are they at again? As a child, I lived on an AFB.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

High-up military officers who stay in for power play the political game of not saying anything in disagreement with other military officers. They are a form of politician in their own right.

I know LOTS of military officers that don't play that game and freely speak their mind when out in public and around friends.

I don't think there is an "officer" side of dh's personality at all. He's the same person - just different employer. I've met a very few military officers that were what is called "gung-ho" and they're usually regarded by the others with skepticism and a bit of . The ones that are forced to agree with the military line in a public situation do so simply because they fear retribution at work.

And, no, Allison, you cannot just quit the military once you've made a commitment. Especially for doctors it is indentured servitude. You are OWNED until your commitment is up - and even then they can still go back on the agreement and keep you indefinitely (see stop-loss).

[DCJenn]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

I know LOTS of military officers that don't play that game and freely speak their mind when out in public and around friends.

Key point being "in public" and "with friends". Not to the boss. Not to your commanding officer. And they will salute the guy they think is a raging jackass and will expect the junior officers and enlisted to salute them. Does my husband's buddy the nurse hang out here, drink beer and talk politics? Absolutely. If Aaron and Rick were in a salute area of the hospital would he salute Rick and call him "Sir"? Absolutely.

It's not a game, and it's not 'politics'. It's the military.

Jenn

and by the way, not going to totally hijack here but since when does indentured servitude including free housing, free medical care, free tuition (FOR YOUR KIDS and SPOUSES now), free medical education and a pension that can be as much as 100% of the salary? No one gets forced to sign those contracts.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Oh, by any normal standard in the real world it is indentured servitude.

We have yet to meet a military physician who doesn't see that. Well, except for dh's former rather incompetent "boss" who probably couldn't get work outside of the military....

And, yes, in order to avoid retribution (at work) those who cannot leave when they are treated poorly cannot speak their mind at work. That's the key. When you get to the upper echelons it's a different 'game' than among the rank and file. And, it does appear, unfortunately, to be a game to some - and one where they will climb over everyone below them and around them to get where they want.

[Rapunzel]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Oh, by any normal standard in the real world it is indentured servitude.

We have yet to meet a military physician who doesn't see that. Well, except for dh's former rather incompetent "boss" who probably couldn't get work outside of the military....

And, yes, in order to avoid retribution (at work) those who cannot leave when they are treated poorly cannot speak their mind at work. That's the key. When you get to the upper echelons it's a different 'game' than among the rank and file. And, it does appear, unfortunately, to be a game to some - and one where they will climb over everyone below them and around them to get where they want.

[DCJenn]

Re: Colin Powell endorses Obama

Well, for perhaps the 8 billionth time, we'll agree to disagree.

J.