What are your thoughts about mandatory flu shots for hospital workers?

[Michele]

They may not be taught those details, but they are given enough background knowledge in the sciences to make those educated leaps. CT scans are usually quicker and easier to perform than MRIs, as well as more readily available.....that's likely why they are prescribed more than MRIs.....even though the radiation risk is greatly increased, it's usually balanced by the risk of what could be missed by an xray, or by not having the test done.

[Vanquisher]

What are your thoughts about mandatory flu shots for hospital workers?

Not to mention that there are certain things CT is better at than MRI and vice versa. MRI is also way more expensive and less likely to be covered by insurance.


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[diggitydot]

I'm not in medicine, have had no education in medicine, have zero interest in it, and actively avoid all things to do with the hairy bitch -- yet I am still aware of and familiar with the cost/benefit issues between CTs and MRIs.

I would hope any physician would have far more knowledge about this subject than a reluctant med hanger-on such as myself.

[PrincessFiona]

DH and his partner get the flu vaccine every year and almost every year, his partner gets the flu! LOL Last year, Thomas got the flu too! Still...they get them. It is mandatory here as well. DH is actually in charge of the program.

As to the risks of CTs/MRIs and radiation: Maybe it depends on your medical school or if you were paying attention in class that day! LOL My radiation oncologist INSISTED that the radiation would not do any damage...that is was "harmless to my healthy cells and not a high enough dose to hurt me." He argued with dh, the oncologist...you name it...when my CT came back showing damage. At that time, even my internist said that many rad oncs are taught and truly believe that they aren't doing something that can harm. Many rad oncs refuse to accept that their treatment modality caused pulmonary, gastrointestinal, etc damage. That is the weirdest thing ever to me! My doc said he wished he could be a fly on the wall in a rad onc program to hear exactly what is being said because he just couldn't get the attitude of many (but not all) of them.

So .... you never know.

Kris

[PrincessFiona]

Also....(sorry to post again)...I believe CTs and MRIs are good at seeing different structures.

EX: spinal cord/brain/tendons are better seen on MRI aren't they? Lungs, chest cavity...CT. I know there are other difference too, but I can't think of them.

[madeintaiwan]

Did you ask your DH if he learned that in medical school, or are you assuming that he didn't? Mine did. I'm pretty sure that your DH learned that too, and you are mistaken. If he didn't there is a serious problem. It's called evidence based medicine. They also take courses in epidemiology, immunology, virology, pathology, etc. They absolutely learn that there are inherent risks to giving patients CT scans. They also know that the risks of ordering a CT scan are often outweighed by the risks of not ordering one. They learn that there is a cost/benefit analysis that comes with EVERY medical decision that they make. The cost/benefit analysis is applied to every medical decision from ordering and prescribing medications to chemotherapy to radiation to not doing anything.

Do doctors learn everything about medicine and the human body in medical school? No. Obviously, that would be impossible. Most physicians that I know, and even the raging assholes, do a cost/benefit analysis on their medical decisions, even if that cost benefit analysis contains not getting sued for malpractice.

yes, this.

[scrub-jay]

FYI: "The Demon in the Freezer" is written by Richard Preston, author of "The Hot Zone." I second Rapunzel's recommendation.

Sunnysideup, I am curious as to what region you live in that has so many docs who are against the flu vaccine. Are you in the U.S.? Does your DH work in a hospital, or does he do something like Rehab where the patients are not necessarily medically ill or immunocompromised? I have been around a long time, and have rarely met a DOC/NP/Nurse who was against the Flu Vaccine. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

There are docs/nurses who are against the flu vaccine, I know some. Many of them probably don't feel comfortable speaking up to others about their views because of the controversial nature of this topic, and because of the hostilities they will face, similar to the ones voiced on this forum. Who would feel comfortable sharing their views when they're going to be met with this kind of hostility? Why hasn't Pebbles posted more about her views--I for one really wanted to hear more about her perspective.

It seems that nurses in particular are particularly vocal against it--so many of the articles from last year on the topic of healthcare professionals against the mandatory flu vaccine interview nurses who are against the vaccine. Interestingly, the American Nurses Association opposes mandatory seasonal flu vaccines.

[Chrisada]

. Many of them probably don't feel comfortable speaking up to others about their views because of the controversial nature of this topic, and because of the hostilities they will face, similar to the ones voiced on this forum. .

I have never known a doctor to not feel comfortable voicing their opinions on much of anything. Especially if it is something that they do not feel is in the best interest of their patients. I'm sorry if you feel that those who do agree with the vaccine are being hostile. That is not anyone's intention. A lot of us just have strong views about it, just as you do.

[scrub-jay]

Why hasn't Pebbles posted more about her views--I for one really wanted to hear more about her perspective.

It seems that nurses in particular are particularly vocal against it--so many of the articles from last year on the topic of healthcare professionals against the mandatory flu vaccine interview nurses who are against the vaccine. Interestingly, the American Nurses Association opposes mandatory seasonal flu vaccines.

As an FYI - there are quite a few nurses here that have been responding to you on this thread who seem to be pro-vaccine. Is that why you wanted to hear Pebbles opinion (is she a nurse?) Anywhoo, I agree with Chrisada, I don't think it is hostility that has driven this thread, closer to passion. I'm sorry you feel that way.

As a follow up - do you also disagree with mandatory annual TB testing for job employment as that involves injecting antigen under the surface of the skin?

[madeintaiwan]

As a follow up - do you also disagree with mandatory annual TB testing for job employment as that involves injecting antigen under the surface of the skin?

I brought this up and it was ignored by sunnyside.

[houseelf]

There are docs/nurses who are against the flu vaccine, I know some. Many of them probably don't feel comfortable speaking up to others about their views because of the controversial nature of this topic, and because of the hostilities they will face, similar to the ones voiced on this forum. Who would feel comfortable sharing their views when they're going to be met with this kind of hostility? Why hasn't Pebbles posted more about her views--I for one really wanted to hear more about her perspective.

SSU, I hope that the passion and agreement on the opposing side doesn't feel too much like a dog pile. I'm sure if you posed this exact same thread on any other forum, there would be a wider sampling of responses. In fact, if you went to a homeschooling or organic living, most of the responses here would be in the minority.

You have to consider your audience. The members here are the most likely members of society to support the basic, widespread practices of Westernized medicine because their loved ones devote their life to it. Believe me, I'm mildly surprised that so many people are in agreement because most of the time we can't agree on much at all, except for the fact that Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are one sandwich short of a picnic.

Anyhow, don't be afraid to dissent, this discussion isn't personal. Besides, everything evolves as we learn more. 200 years ago, doctors didn't wash their hands in between patients.

We're generally very pro-vaccine, but this article in the Atlantic last fall (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...matter/7723/1/) did make me wonder a bit about all the passion behind the flu vaccine in particular. My understanding of the premise is that the research studies proving the flu vaccine's effectiveness are not very good science. They're cohort studies that fail to account for confounding variables. However, whenever someone has questioned their validity, the response of the scientific community has been rather like the one here. I'm curious if those of you who have read the underlying literature (which I have not) think these criticisms are valid.

Nevertheless, I'm also not aware of any evidence suggesting the vaccine can be harmful, so I guess I don't really have a problem with it being required of people who work in health care. We'll get it, though I'll view it more as a possible supplement to good old-fashioned hand washing and common sense than a magic shield.

You have to consider your audience. The members here are the most likely members of society to support the basic, widespread practices of Westernized medicine because their loved ones devote their life to it. Be

I understand this statement, as I am part of the mainstream medical lifestyle too. However, when I go to doctors, and they give me medical advice that seems questionable to me, I don't just accept it because they are the medical experts--I do some research on my own, read different opinions, and come to my own conclusion, taking into account their medical advice but sometimes not automatically accepting it right away. I think that a lot of doctors, though well-meaning, aren't aware of or don't know about the potential dangers of some of the things they advocate, like vaccines or radiation side effects. Just look at Kris's experience with her doctor that she wrote about above.

A recent experience with a dentist I went to comes to mind regarding this. He was advocating removing an amalgam filling of mine and replacing it with a white filling. I expressed my concern about BPA being in the white fillings and he had no comment on that, it was as if he had no idea that white fillings can contain BPA and didn't know what to make of it. In any case, he could not address my concerns at all.

[HouseofWool]

I meant to respond to this earlier, and have just finished reading all of the responses. Before 2008, I had never had the flu vax, nor have I ever had the flu. I believe E had because of patient interaction, but I don't know for sure. After Caleb's stroke that was the result of a hyper-immune response to a completely random virus I get the vax. I make sure he gets it and that Sophie does as well. Last year when they were in short supply, I was a complete pain in the ass about getting it for everyone in our household because of C's high risk status (there is a 20% recurrence rate). Because of his risk category, we were able to get the H1N1 before supplies ran out.

I will never again risk him getting that sick. Just the thought of the potential complications for him are staggering. I guess that puts me firmly in the camp of the benefits greatly outweigh the relatively minor risks.