medicine and faith communities

Maybe a site with liberal leanings isn't the best place to post this... but then again, maybe it's the perfect place! I'm putting myself and my faith community out there with a topic that feels fairly personal, but this frustration has been rattling around in the back of my mind for years.

For those of you who try to be part of a faith community, do you feel a tension between medicine and the beliefs of people in your community? It's not my faith that I'm struggling with; it's some peripheral beliefs of other people in my faith. It's things that are part of that culture, that aren't even in the faith literature.

For example, I hear so many women who are going through infertility counseled to "just give it to God," implying that this will get them pregnant. I'm absolutely sure that this sequence of events has happened to individual women, and I've even seen some bizarre things myself. But this advice can cause *unbelievable* frustration, confusion, and even guilt. Other people here have brought up views on vaccinations (yes, I know there are many other reasons besides faith for not getting vaccinated). And then there are other debates that are too touchy to mention.

As we're looking ahead at settling in somewhere, I'm trying to gear up for making friends of my faith again. This is important to me for my family & other reasons. A week ago I tried - really tried hard - to join a forum with women who share my core beliefs. (I might have been shunned yesterday after I posted that I'd always prefer men's football over any potential women's teams because I'd rather look at men's butts in spandex. Kidding about being shunned - I think.) It doesn't bother me a great deal that I felt like a sore thumb there (for reasons other than the football thread, which suddenly went dead after I posted), but it does bother me that this may happen IRL. I adore some of my childhood mentors - they're like aunts to me - and I strongly believe that their prayers got me through some things. But I don't know how to find people like that again. And how would they strike me if I met them for the first time now? I think they're unique, but maybe that's just because I know them well and can handle our differences better. ??

Giving up my faith isn't an option. I've tried that before, and I doubt I'll ever try it again. I don't want to compare faiths or atheism or talk about the validity of any core tenets.

I'm just wondering if anyone else feels this way, and how you deal with it. Do you compartmentalize the evidence-based medicine part of you? Or do you challenge things, and resign yourself to being the cantankerous sore thumb who can't connect with others? Have you found other like-minded people in your community, and did it take a while? (And is it selfish to want this?) I'm sure I would encounter this same thing (medical misperceptions, differences of opinion) in the general public, so why am I expecting more from the equally fragile people of my faith?

By the way, anyone is welcome to chime in, including atheists. Part of the reason I posted here is because I think people here are capable of being respectful while responding candidly. Thanks in advance for any perspectives or suggestions.

Hitting the submit button with fear & trepidation...

[medpedspouse]

Fly by posting as I sit next to a dear friend in the oncology ward who is battling cancer and is losing.

When I "leave it to God" - for me at least, it means that I leave it it to him to guide me, comfort me and help me help her. For DH and I our belief system does not conflict with evidence based medicine.

[v-girl]

When I "leave it to God" - for me at least, it means that I leave it it to him to guide me, comfort me and help me help her. For DH and I, our belief system does not conflict with evidence based medicine.

ditto

[GrayMatterWife]

We are part of a faith community. We attend an Anglican church here. My son is going through their children's program and I am active in a Friday morning mass/Bible study. I have lots of friends at the church.

To the best of my knowledge, we have not experienced a situation where members of our church have said/suggested things that conflict with DH's call to the practice of medicine. Honestly, there are a lot of physicians in the church, so I don't really think it would be an issue. Evidence-based medicine is fully within the parameters of the tenets of our faith. We DO believe in "giving" medical conditions to God. By that, we mean that we acknowledge that it is God alone who heals and that prayer is our way of understanding God's will in our lives, including in our medical struggles. We do not mean that problems will be solved by relying only on prayer when there are medical avenues to complement that prayer. But we believe that prayer offers a spiritual comfort and encouragement that mere medicine and physical healing cannot.

We have, however, received a lot of criticism over the years from DH's parents (an MD and an RN, BTW) for DH's decision to go into NSG. They perceive this as a career choice that is inconsistent with choosing a path that places the service of God at the center of one's life. They believe that DH cannot be a good Christian, good father, good husband, and good NSG at the same time. In my view, it is an extremely hurtful and inexplicable position. But, they believe that surgery is inherently a selfish choice and therefore makes pleasing God very difficult. I will never be able to change that viewpoint merely by telling them they are wrong. I can only hope that my husband's life and practice, and his personal commitment to his family, eventually is a quiet witness to them of the person who he is.

To the best of my knowledge, we have not experienced a situation where members of our church have said/suggested things that conflict with DH's call to the practice of medicine. Honestly, there are a lot of physicians in the church, so I don't really think it would be an issue. Evidence-based medicine is fully within the parameters of the tenets of our faith. We DO believe in "giving" medical conditions to God. By that, we mean that we acknowledge that it is God alone who heals and that prayer is our way of understanding God's will in our lives, including in our medical struggles. We do not mean that problems will be solved by relying only on prayer when there are medical avenues to complement that prayer. But we believe that prayer offers a spiritual comfort and encouragement that mere medicine and physical healing cannot.

This describes our faith and church far more eloquently than I could. I'm trying to think of a time when there was a potential conflict, but I can't recall one.

[MrsK]

We DO believe in "giving" medical conditions to God. By that, we mean that we acknowledge that it is God alone who heals and that prayer is our way of understanding God's will in our lives, including in our medical struggles. We do not mean that problems will be solved by relying only on prayer when there are medical avenues to complement that prayer. But we believe that prayer offers a spiritual comfort and encouragement that mere medicine and physical healing cannot.

I don't know that I have much of substance to contribute since doctors/healers are highly regarded in my faith. However, something that Abigail said recalled a very cherished memory of mine. DrK and I are spiritual people and, although we are very secular reform Jews, we are probably slightly more observant than many "very secular reform Jews" of our generation. When we first started dating, DrK wanted to be a trauma surgeon. On one of our first dates, I asked him why. He started telling me about "the awesome power to reverse death and disabililty." Having dated a few very cocky doctors, I cynically asked him if he chose that field so he could feel like a god. DrK very earnestly leaned across the table, looked me squarely in the eye, and told me that he believes in Gd, that we are instruments of Gd, and that its only with Gd's help that doctors can perform miracles. I fall in love with him all over again every time I remember that moment (swoon) . . . but that's beside the point. His point was that we are all instruments of Gd and choosing to serve others with Gd's help is not about ego or interference with Gd's plan.

[L.Jane]

I think that's one of things that I love about my particular sect of Judiasm so much. Life is so precious, that its the one thing that allows you to break any of the rules. If its Shabbat and we are not supposed to be working, if a doctor needs to work to save a life, it is allowed. If someone needs your kidney to survive, or a part of your liver, you can donate it, which is against the rule of hurting your own body. Medical advancements are seen as man made, but still a miracle of gd, because he is a part of everything. Its very comforting. When someone in my community says, its in the hands of gd, they aren't saying, don't do anything they are just trying to give comfort in a tough situation.

[oceanchild]

I have MASSIVE, HUGE issues with my faith and church (and occasionally other practitioners thereof), but honestly, this isn't one that's ever really come up.

I have also tried giving up my faith and failed, so I get where you're coming from. I think I've just come to the conclusion that I am judgmental, and there are people who I will simply never like. And then I do my best to limit my interactions with them.

Thanks - it's really nice to hear some reassurance. I'm so sorry about the woman with cancer.

My faith itself isn't incompatible with evidence-based medicine, either. And it isn't the "giving it to God" that is the issue. It's the stories of people who gave it to God and then immediately became pregnant. I felt that people were implying that I wasn't pregnant yet because I hadn't learned a spiritual lesson or hadn't fully given it to God. And then there were the frustrating home remedy suggestions. I can nod my head and ignore it if someone wants to put essential oils on her child's feet to prevent colds, but if the child has reactive airway disease exacerbated by colds, that gets dangerous. It's the views on the causes of suffering, and the unfounded home remedies for serious (or seriously troubling) conditions that bother me.

DH is in a field where pregnancy termination is an issue, but we feel fairly confident in his moral and ethical choices, and we don't discuss them with others outside the field. Too many misunderstandings when you can't discuss the individual cases.

I suppose we'll probably feel "different," too, because I support his hours and his pursuit of excellence in his field. I don't think anyone judges us for that. It's just another reason I may continue to feel isolated, when everyone else is so family-oriented.

Ugh. I have to get rid of this chip on my shoulder. I got hurt pretty badly during our infertility treatments. Maybe it was my own sensitivity, or maybe this particular problem is replete with mis-advice.

I think I've just come to the conclusion that I am judgmental, and there are people who I will simply never like. And then I do my best to limit my interactions with them.

We cross-posted. Maybe this is my problem, too! Ha!

But then I'm left in my ivory tower by myself.

[MrsK]

It's the stories of people who gave it to God and then immediately became pregnant. I felt that people were implying that I wasn't pregnant yet because I hadn't learned a spiritual lesson or hadn't fully given it to God.

I can fully understand why this would be painful for you. It's like telling someone that Gd has cursed them with an illness or physical affliction. Personally, I just wouldn't discuss my fertility or lack thereof with them. It's none of their business.

[oceanchild]

But then I'm left in my ivory tower by myself.

Yeah, there's that. My religion is big, so I'm pretty consistently able to be selective about which church I attend and to find people I do like. But it can be a fine line. Group dynamics (church or non-church) are tricky business.

[Vanquisher]

You said atheists too, but I guess I don't understand why. I'll tell you though because you asked.

I find absolutely no compatability with medicine or any rational thought with that of faith or religion. That's pretty much it. I don't have to conform or bend to make my personal beliefs coincide with scientific ones.

Fitting in is always difficult. I try never to bring up religion or my lack of religious beliefs in most situations.


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[Pollyanna]

I have always found my faith and medicine to blend beautifully.

[MarissaNicole]

Medpedspouse - I'm sorry about your friend, she is lucky to have you at her side.

GMW - have you ever seen gifted hands? It relates to a nsgn and his faith, its one of my favorite movies because its so touching and its also based on a true story.

And not to discredit anyone's faith, but sometimes infertility isn't necessarily a medical problem per se but sometimes pressure and stress (related to both TTC and in life) can prevent ovulation. Therefore it would make sense that after someone "gave it to God" they got pregnant. Not to say that that wasn't part of God's plan, its just a thought.

Hopefully the woman who told you that was meaning to comfort you and tell you to trust in God, not implying that there is anything wrong with your faith/relationship with God, and hopefully not implying that medicine shouldn't be used to conceive.

Personally I use my religion as a way to connect with God, but I don't always agree with all practices or teachings and therefore I avoid talking about those things with other people....