The Fascination with Ivy Leagues

[SoonerTexan]

Crystal--it didn't directly relate. I read the following quote from an article you linked to:

But if that sounds fluffy to you—if you, like Chua, value your children’s success over their long-term happiness—and you are inclined to practice Chua’s methods for turning out an Ivy-Leaguer, here is what I want you to remember: Fostering the skills that kids need for happiness is a better bet for their long-term success.

and it got me thinking about how much I hear about "Ivy League this" "Ivy League that" all the time, especially in regards to children's educational success.

[SuzySunshine]

Where to begin...

DH is a VERY smart white male who did not qualify for financial aid. When he applied to colleges he was accepted to Purdue, Notre Dame and Kansas among others, as far as I know he did not apply to any of the ivies. He chose Kansas because he got a spot in the Scholarship Halls, which like Kelly mentioned is kind of like an honors dorm. He excelled in college, was top of his Chemical Engineering class and had excellent MCAT scores. Why am I telling you all of this? Because the medical school process was PAINFUL!

He applied to all of the top schools! Why shouldn't he have? He had great scores, great grades and had chosen a hard pre-med major instead of an easy one. He interviewed at close to a dozen and did get interviews at schools like Duke, Harvard, etc. He got ONE acceptance! ONE! He was wait listed at WashU and Stanford, his ONLY acceptance was from his state school. By pure chance he got his Stanford spot the day orientation began at Kansas. Don't get me wrong he would have been very happy at Kansas but more then 75% of his class at Stanford were Stanford undergrads or Ivy leaguers. He had 4 guy friends he was close to and they use to call themselves the state school token students because they all went to a state school, except one, and they were RARE!

When it came to match DH's Stanford experience definitely opened some doors for him during the process. Would he have gotten the same doors opened coming from KU, some yes but mostly no.

I know now I'm rambling but I truly believe that big name schools (Ivy or not) can and do open doors and I think for a good reason or a school that excels in a certain subject it is worth it.

As for their snotty attitudes you're going to find that at all schools. KU was easier to get into then the Illinois state schools so we had a lot of Chicago area kids at KU and because they were out of state and most of them were greek most of them thought they were better then everyone else.

[reciprocity]

Oh, yeah...you're right! We DO have a Four Seasons! I should have written "The Peninsula"! hahahaha! (Same difference--the judgment is palable!)

yeah, they even have TVs in the bathroom mirrors! AMAZING!

but god forbid we have to stay at the Ritz in Clinton which is actually closer to the airport, our client and our co-counsel offices...

At least there's a TV in the bathroom...

I really think that part of this is an area specific thing. No one I ever knew growing up thought all that much of big name colleges, particularly those on the East coast. I went to a private catholic high school (which was very into college placement), a private college for undergrad, and to 2 different lower tier state schools for grad school (MA/JD) and I'm doing fine, although I wouldn't ever be accepted into BigLaw and I wouldn't want to be.

My husband's med school wasn't top tier or anything and it did close some doors, but not enough to have us not match into a competitive specialty. I guess part of me just doesn't want to have anything to do with a school/program/job that would put so much emphasis on a name. But once again, I'm contrary like that. And I think I would feel differently if we had kids, I would want them to have all opportunities available to them, whether or not they chose to utilize them and if that meant an education at a prestigious school I guess I might change my tune (probably not!)

I realize that not all big name schools are simply just about a "name" and like SuzySunshine said sometimes provide a higher level of training in a specific field or what not.

[Pollyanna]

I truly believe that big name schools (Ivy or not) can and do open doors and I think for a good reason or a school that excels in a certain subject it is worth it.

I completely agree. Dh did all of his doctoral research at Stanford but his degree and most of his coursework was done here in AZ. The fact that he was at Stanford for nearly four years doing research means more (especially to the academic community) than any of his degrees combined. Sure, you can say that's it what you put into your education that counts but big names open doors.

[alison]

Stanford opened many doors for my foreign-educated dh. There is no way he would have gotten interviews in my hometown, let alone had a choice between two places. It was rigorous, demanding, and full of people who spend their time "mentally masturbating" about their research (sorry for the expression), but definitely the best decision we have ever made re dh's career.

"mentally masturbating"

Ha! I love it! That's what we used to always say we did in my MA program!

I have to say that my prejudice against big name schools doesn't translate to Stanford, but I think that's because I'm from the Bay Area so I grew up with a respect for Stanford, Cal, etc. that I just don't have for the Ivies... And that's completely ridiculous I realize.

Also I agree that big name schools open doors, but why should they and other schools, that also can and do produce top scholars, researchers, publications etc. don't? It just seems unfair and silly to me.

oh the weird world of academia... yeah, a number of places my wife was interviewing at we came across several people who admitted they were just there because of name recognition. I agree with what others have been saying: if you get a great education, it doesn't matter where the degree is from, though more doors are likely to be opened initially with a more prestigious school.

[Chrisada]

This is interesting. I can honestly say that it seemed that most of DH's classmates in med. school went to Ivy Leagues, and I could not believe how many of them matched there. I heard Harvard over and over again on match day. And for programs like ortho. DH got into Harvard for undergrad, but was not interested in attending. He also avoided applying to Ivy Leagues for med. school, but was offered quite a bit of money from Duke. We are very happy with our U of M experience, which is not an Ivy League, but ranks right up there with them. We were lucky in that they have a ton of money to give out. One of my closest friends went to Stanford for undergrad and Harvard for med. school and residency.

One of my friends who attended Harvard said instead of aspiring to be a lawyer or whatever, they aspire to be Secretary of State.

[alison]

I'm curious why your dh decided against Harvard for college, unless it was a financial decision that basically makes the decision for you. My dad went there for grad school, and I know that my mom worked two jobs to make it possible for him to do so. Maybe my family is a little nutty that way, but there's no way on earth they'd pass the opportunity up.

I think the term Ivy League is typically used as shorthand for a variety of things-- achievement, prestige, douchebaggery. That's why it's a thing, even if it's really not that special, qualitatively. There's a certain cachet. Whether having that on a resume is worth the price tag and the time in an ivory tower is debatable. I attended Ivies for college and law school. I'm not entirely sure why. I'm not really into prestige. I just liked my alma mater best of all the campuses I visited. Law school was different. At that point I did consciously go for the big name because I wasn't sure where I'd end up settling down and thought it might help to have an extra door opener. Ironically, now that there is such a growing current of anti-elitism, particularly in more conservative, rural areas where we'd like to live, I'm actually concerned that my education may be a liability. People assume things (kind of like being a dawkters wife, I suppose), but we don't act like it's a big deal so it usually isn't.

[Chrisada]

I'm curious why your dh decided against Harvard for college, unless it was a financial decision that basically makes the decision for you. My dad went there for grad school, and I know that my mom worked two jobs to make it possible for him to do so. Maybe my family is a little nutty that way, but there's no way on earth they'd pass the opportunity up.

I guess different things work for different people. People don't even know he got into Harvard. It honestly just was not a big deal to him. He chose a small historically black college instead, but did chose the big name for med. school.

[alison]

Yup, I agree. Not trying to criticize you, by any means. I guess this just shows how much we buy into the Ivy League myth.

[Chrisada]

No worries at all! An attending recently asked him why he chose to go to a black school when he didn't have to. It was important to him, for too many reasons for me to even get into. I will say that he felt that he did have to go to a top ten school for med. school to balance his undergrad choice, which gave him an excellent education, but is unknown to most non-blacks.

[Michele]

Russ also turned down Harvard undergrad for UF. Which for the med world is a pretty significant jump down. I think he wanted the state school experience over the big name prestige. He also "turned down" a "rank to match" residency offer at UF for a chance to experience elsewhere. Overall things have worked out anyway. We went to college together (likely wouldn't be together at all if he'd have gone to Harvard) and had a great time getting into SEC football! His residency gave him ridiculous surgical experience and the contacts for the fellowship which landed him a job in our ideal location.

I think the Ivies do open doors. I also think that the southern schools close some. Maybe it's more regionality, but he definitely experienced some discrimination along interview trails (med and residency) for having gotten an undergrad degree from a southern school.