Don't quit this day job. (part time mom docs)

[PrincessFiona]

I don't know of many physician jobs for part-timers. What tends to happen is someone gets a full-time job, has a baby, and starts dropping back in hours. They have that right, but then we should support an employer's right to say no. Many willtry to work with the employee for a variety of reasons. It hasn't worked here. 50% of the docs in primary care are now part-time women who all started as full time. Now there is a patient access problem as well as an issue with a difficult call schedule. There are recruiting problems in part due to this. The hospital is in a bind.

Heidi, you say you support parttime female employees. Under the same circumstances faced by many groups though, you admit not hiring those same women.


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[Vanquisher]

I don't know of many physician jobs for part-timers. What tends to happen is someone gets a full-time job, has a baby, and starts dropping back in hours. They have that right, but then we should support an employer's right to say no. Many willtry to work with the employee for a variety of reasons. It hasn't worked here. 50% of the docs in primary care are now part-time women who all started as full time. Now there is a patient access problem as well as an issue with a difficult call schedule. There are recruiting problems in part due to this. The hospital is in a bind.

Heidi, you say you support parttime female employees. Under the same circumstances faced by many groups though, you admit not hiring those same women.


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True, but that is the employer's perogative. I support their ability to try to get employment, but it is probably harder for them, and they should be aware of that. It doesn't mean that I don't support their ability to work part-time as a whole. When I am a PA, I fully expect to work part-time, and my employer will support it (me, hahahahaha!). And, as I said, I have 2 (almost 3) part timers now. I only have two full timers (besides Chad and I), so I think I AM willing to hire part-time employees, but that doesn't mean their benefits do or should match those of full-time employees. The main perk, IMO, of being part-time is the balance and flexibility you gain, not the voting rights or insurance benefits.

[SoonerTexan]

Wonder what she would think of my MIL, who ended up giving up medicine full time to care for her children.

[mommax3]

I have talked before about the all-female OB/Gyn practice that went out of business because none of them wanted to work enough to make it profitable enough to pay its own way. They were med school affiliated, with primo office space right across from L&D. The practice folded about 6 months after their guarantee ended.

[ides]

I think the author is a tool.

When are people going to get it through their heads that being a doctor is a JOB not a mission of complete sacrifice that makes them superior and special? It's a demanding job, for sure, but its a job none the less.

[ides]

I have talked before about the all-female OB/Gyn practice that went out of business because none of them wanted to work enough to make it profitable enough to pay its own way. They were med school affiliated, with primo office space right across from L&D. The practice folded about 6 months after their guarantee ended.

I think this is a problem lots of businesses face when people in charge don't want to work enough to support the business. I knew of a pilates studio that closed simply due to the fact the owners didn't want to work the required amount to keep it afloat. They were arrogant & lazy. Enough said.

[peggyfromwastate]

My dad allows for part time employees (even doctors) of his clinics. But he does not allow half days. They work 3 full days and do all their charting, etc. They are salaried and the bonus and benefits are less bc they are part time. The bonus system he has is sweet-- if you work hard. But if you don't care to put in the time, you won't bill as much, be as productive, and you will not get the big (quarterly) bonus. Of his employees, a PA is consistently the one to get the biggest bonus, far more than the doctors he has on staff. But the guy works his tail off.

[GrayMatterWife]

I've heard the same "taking up space in school" argument about non-practicing lawyers. It is usually made by people who do not think that women shold be admitted to law school (yes, dinosaurs do still roam the Earth).s.

I think the law is somewhat different. There is not a shortage of lawyers and there is not nearly the same amount of limited space in law schools. Schools may cap their classes, but it is not really for a lack of resources (by comparison, resources to run a medical school--the overhead--is much higher). And it is not assumed that you will practice law if you go to law school. It is expected that a certain minority percentage of the class is obtaining a JD for other reasons. And, it seems to be easier to be a productive part-time lawyer. I am not sure why that is. Not at Big Firm, big money, big client type places, but in small outfits.

[GrayMatterWife]

The neurosurgeon that DH is going to work with next year isn't in the hospital, clinic or OR on Wednesdays - he works at a small clinic in southern WA. Is he getting paid or volunteering? I have no idea - but my point is he's a male, very well respected, neurosurgeon who is not available to his OHSU patients on Wednesdays. Does that make him a bad doctor? I HIGHLY doubt it.

This lady just rubs me the wrong way. Can you tell?

That's different, though. He's part-time (I suppose, an 80%-er, as I've heard one-day-a-week-off-ers called) but he is productive as a doctor during that time. He may not be bringing in the billables, but he is practicing medicine and making the institution he is affiliated with look good, which has a certain goodwill right there.

I am not sure that the author was saying that part-timers are bad doctors, per se. Just not-as productive (read: practice as much medicine...which, may or may not, mean more billables).

Although, in a backhanded way, she may have been implying that such women are bad WOMEN--that is, they are hurting the "cause" of women in medicine. Which I don't happen to agree with. If women should be in medicine only if they are MEN in medicine, that sounds like a losing goal. Women are different than men--most notably, some give birth and (some--many) have maternal instincts regarding their offspring. No amount of gender-equalizing in education or the workforce is going to change those facts and the real-world effects of those facts. If we want women in medicine--which I presume we do--we have to find a way to recognize that more women than men will want to work part-time and we should figure out a way to make them productive in that part-time employment. Otherwise, we risk either driving women from medicine or make male doctors (or women who do not choose mommy tracking) extremely (and perhaps rightfully) resentful. And women who are part-timers should understand: it is a sacrifice. You aren't going to get the privileges of being full-time. Equality between genders does not dictate equality for unequal work.

[SoonerTexan]

I really liked this response:

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/russel...ient-evidence/

[SuzySunshine]

Another good response - glad to see we're not the only ones that think she's a nut!

[Michele]

My part time gig was mornings. I can absolutely see how my leaving mid day caused more work for the full timers and a break in patient care. I had to be twice as diligent about charting my findings, my plan, my expectations for response to treatment and my communications with the owners. I tried really hard to keep everyone (owners, techs, receptionists and the other vets) in the loop with my plan so that they weren't left high and dry bc I was off at the park with my kids. I expected to have some say in practice decisions but I did not get (nor expect) benefits, etc.

I cannot imagine not being a part of my kids daily life. Before kids, I thought I'd be a career woman, big time surgeon....things change....life happens. I think part time should be an option. But I also agree there should be some structure and organization to ensure as complete patient care as possible.

My mom and dad commented yesterday about my wasted 100K degree bc I'm not actively looking for a new job. That I'm being kept "barefoot and pregnant." I was offended. But ultimately I'm really happy with my life. When my kids are older I'll take more of the full time burden, so a new mom/dad vet can work the part time shift.

[houseelf]

I agree with the second rebuttal's underpinning that this is one woman chastizing other woman to suck it up rather than dealing with a broken, unfair system. Hell, as long as we keep arguing amongst ourselves, there is no incentive to fix an impossible situation.

[ladymoreta]

Now that I've thought about it and read more opinions... I guess my initial reaction was more emotional than logical. I do take issue with women who feel entitled to (their own) family time, while causing their coworkers to pick up the slack and expecting the same benefits. They give the majority of working mothers an undeserved bad reputation. I totally agree with those of you saying they shouldn't be guaranteed a part time position, nor should they have the same benefits and decision-making input as a full time doctors in the practice.

My primary problem was with the tone of the article. It seemed like she was saying that the taxpayers carried a huge burden to educate doctors, so they must work full time. I know I'm opening a huge can of worms, but this is like the argument that people have a right to health care. Sure, if it's available and a doctor is willing to treat you, great! But I don't believe we should force doctors to practice medicine. It's bad enough that they're not allowed to strike, and the government has a huge say in medical costs, but mandating working hours is just too much power over a profession...

[PrincessFiona]

I agree about the tone of the article. She alienated people on that alone!

As to people having a right to work part-time? I dont know. There are a lot of rights that I would fight for (including healthcare tbh). Part-time employment isn't one. We are a privileged nation (or perhaps employment group) that we can even consider that a right!


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