Wall Street Protests

[houseelf]

I have been following this issue for about the last year. I truly see both sides of this. It is like the pendulum has swung from the point of too many workers' rights breaking the back of industry back to deregulation and fracturing the unions to break the back of the average citizen. I know the moderate view rarely gets the press, but it does seem like the pendulum needs to come back a bit towards the middle. I just finished a book by economist Harry Dent entitled the Great Crash Ahead. (Yes, I get that he is a much criticized economist, but there is a seed of truth to his data). Anyway, in outlining the rationale for his predictions, he cited statistics stating that the majority of states and cities are completely underfunded for their pension plans. These people worked their entire lives in the public sector and ergo making less pay in exchange for these retirement plans. They simply don't exist without an inrease of revenue (i.e. taxes). This is outright theft. Corporate America has decimated towns and their entire populations to save a few pennies. CEOs make an obscene amount of cash while the average worker earns less salary in real terms. This kind of greed and swindle needs addressed.

On the other hand, unions brought this country to its knees in its day. One such remnant is the fact that schools have such a difficult time firing teachers.

Where is the silent majority? Is there some reasonable middle ground here>

[reciprocity]

I think it's obviously a confused movement filled with people who want/need a vent for their frustrations. It seems like a lot of this is anger along the lines of "I did what I thought I was supposed to but it still didn't work out" which is a hard lesson to learn, but yeah...

If they could focus this on something along the lines of "corporations aren't people and money isn't speech" I'd support it 100%

And I don't really get the cries of hypocrisy. You can care about an issue a certain amount, but not be able (or even willing) to take it all the way - for example, I think there are some serious issues raised by the way we raise and treat animals in the meat packing industry, but I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. I make efforts to eat less meat, but the fact is that I am not thoroughly devoted to the cause.

Likewise, I think there are some serious concerns about the amount of influence corporations have over our public policy and the degree to which our government is influenced by the need for politicians to fundraise (as well as some other factors, like private policy advisory firms being responsible for drafting legislation, etc.) but I still get paid by corporations and buy the products of corporations. That doesn't make my a hypocrite, it makes me someone who sees problems with the system, but who still has to live within the system.

[fluffhead]

Where is the silent majority? Is there some reasonable middle ground here

If you can find it, let me know.
I've been thinking seriously about Mitt Romney lately - with all the wacko Republicans lately, he seems more and more middle to me lately.

[diggitydot]

I've been thinking seriously about Mitt Romney lately - with all the wacko Republicans lately, he seems more and more middle to me lately.

Which means he has a hell of a fight on his hands just to make it out of the primaries. Primaries typically don't work to the benefit of centrists. However, I don't see a lot of "centrist" when it comes to Romney. I see a lot of flipping to cater to whichever audience he's courting.

[Cinderella]

Steve Jobs just died. He was one of the most successful CEO's all over the world. He made more than 800 million in the last ten years. Now he's headed to a hole in the ground.

How about them apples?

[fluffhead]

Likewise, I think there are some serious concerns about the amount of influence corporations have over our public policy and the degree to which our government is influenced by the need for politicians to fundraise (as well as some other factors, like private policy advisory firms being responsible for drafting legislation, etc.) but I still get paid by corporations and buy the products of corporations. That doesn't make my a hypocrite, it makes me someone who sees problems with the system, but who still has to live within the system.

I completely agree! But there doesn't seem to be any of this sane type of talk - instead I'm hearing one-sided generalities and hate-mongering. Maybe that's what it takes to generate change.

And Steve Jobs is dead! wow...

[diggitydot]

But there doesn't seem to be any of this sane type of talk - instead I'm hearing one-sided generalities and hate-mongering.

Really?! I haven't read ANYTHING I'd qualify as hate-mongering and I've been keeping pretty plugged into the movement. Where have you seen that? I'd like to read it.

[GrayMatterWife]

The whole thing strikes me as immature, naive, unsophisticated, sophomoric and somewhat silly, with one-dimensional sound-bite declarations that are supposed to convince us of their moral righteousness.

Grow up. Get a job.

[Mrs. MD, Esq.]

I laughed at an interview I saw of an early 20-something girl who was ranting about how she needed to take a stand against the evils of capitalism.

While wearing an Ambercrombie Fitch-emblazoned shirt.

Yeah, sweetie, power to the people.

[diggitydot]

Get a job.

Kinda hard in this economy...

[Cinderella]

My dh told me about the rumors of a Wall Street protest back in July so I knew it was coming but in the scheme of things it wasn't really significant because in the US we have protests all the time. People demonstrate for what ever, whenever and nearly where ever. He found out from someone in Egypt who knew people in New York organizing it. He made it seem like it would be as huge a deal as the Egyptian Revolution.

From the numbers we've seen it was around 1,000 people at it's peak. Out of a population of 300 million people in the U.S. that's not saying much, especially for the population of New York. Then we've started seeing similar protests pop up here and there across the US within the last week. One in Boston, one in L.A., one Portland and even in Eugene and another in Seattle and I saw video for one in North Carolina. They were the most articulate of the bunch by having a representative answering questions on their position. Each group hasn't been more than a couple hundred people at a time so we're not even talking in the tens of thousands here, yet. These kinds of things would be covered more on a local level though it is addressing a national issue. Once the numbers really start to swell and we're seeing some real backing behind it such as we saw with the growth of Tea Party Movement then you may start seeing it more in the National Media coverage. There is some buzz that this may be the answer for some people to the Tea Party Movement, like another fraction of the population who are also disenfranchised with the two major parties who they really see as one party for the united corporations of america and not for the people anymore. For the ruling elite few and not the masses.

It has been covered by national news as it grows in the major cities and gains the attention of the people. It's kind of like you all said. Recognizing problems with the system while still having to work within the system because we are so interdependent. I think it's a good place to start having a discussion on where we want to go as a society and a global community.

[fluffhead]

The hate mongering was referring to the stuff coming from both sides in the general political debate - not just the protests.
Though, to be sure, the two anti-semitic videos I've seen so far on youtube scare the hell out of me. Large popular antigovernment movements with people saying that it's all the Jews' fault are not a good sign.

[diggitydot]

Seriously, WTF? I haven't read to seen ANYTHING like that. That is disturbing.

[SoonerTexan]

How much do those talking points represent the movement anyway? How can there even be an "official" website for such a disjointed group. There are to be 2 protests in Dallas tomorrow that are lumped into the movement that are completely separate and have different points.

[Cinderella]

How much do those talking points represent the movement anyway? How can there even be an "official" website for such a disjointed group. There are to be 2 protests in Dallas tomorrow that are lumped into the movement that are completely separate and have different points.

I was just discussing this similar issue yesterday with somebody. I think it's going to vary based on the various regions and demographics of the people. The U.S. is huge. As I just learned a squirrel where I moved from is different from a squirrel in western Oregon. Every State varies right down to their laws which are ideally made by the representatives of the people who elected them. Oregon driving requirements are vastly different from where I came from which was surprising to me but I knew when I first visited this area that the roads were setup differently. So what people come up with as their talking points I think will be in the same spirit of the movement but also a reflection of the people of that region with where they are at in their lives and where they are coming from. People in the bigger cities are going to have different complaints about the same system then people in rural regions and so forth.

Also keep in mind it's in its formulation stage so it's not fully developed. For that to happen people have to get talking to one another instead of just shouting because people may hear you but they aren't going to listen. The louder one shouts may draw attention but it doesn't mean for long or without consequence or reaction. Very radical things have been said in quiet calmer voices and people are more receptive to listening to it and having a discussion.