Wall Street Protests

[GrayMatterWife]

Kinda hard in this economy...

If we destroy corporations and deconstruct capitalism, that will definitely create more jobs.

[diggitydot]

Very radical things have been said in quiet calmer voices and people are more receptive to listening to it and having a discussion.

Well put and I agree wholeheartedly.

[diggitydot]

GMW - I agree and I'm not saying it will, but in this economy, "Get a job," is a cruel comment to people who would love nothing more than to work and support their families.

I doubt the vast majority of our citizens want to destroy most companies, just a more even approach and a deck not drastically stacked against them.

[houseelf]

ow much do those talking points represent the movement anyway? How can there even be an "official" website for such a disjointed group.

I don't think that this is that uncommon for fledgling movements. I think that there is just a general perception that the Government has placed Corporate needs above the needs and rights of the individuals and it needs to come back into balance. For an example, look no further than the bank bailout in which the banks used tax payer money (or in truth, our grandchildren's taxes) to replenish their coffers and three years later are still struggling. I don't think that there should have been any bail out of anyone, but people are questioning why the the Corporations continually receive most favored status over the individual. I do think we need to have a discussion about how much unchecked capitalism is good for this country.

As far as referring to the NYPD as "jack booted thugs" this just fires me up. After all, they are the ordinary citizens that for which this movement purports to speak.

Perhaps I am acutely aware of this issue because my hometown of Dayton, Ohio has been ravaged by Corporations fleeing overseas. It's not Detroit, but it is not far behind. People can't get ahead for getting behind. There are a lot of people who worked jobs for 20 or 30 years who can't find work and now find that their severance package benefits are being taken away.

I hear you, we the people bought into this consumerist society and massive debt, for which we now will have to take drastic measures in order to move forward. At the same time, Corporate America was ruthless at taking advantage of their workers and would stoop to just about anything to squeeze one more dollar of profit. There is complicity all around. We now need to find a way to have a tempered national discussion about balancing the free market with the rights and needs of the citizens and the good of society. The Government has been on Corporate America's payroll for a bit too long now. It is time to reconfigure, which is one thing that this country is fabulous at doing.

I googled the anti-sementism. Agian, I hope that the vast silent majority stands up and declares that we aren't going to stand for this shit, not in our country.

[Cinderella]

NY's "Occupy Wall Street" movement continues to grow. Yesterday, Labor Unions and students joined thousands of demonstraters in lower Manhattan.

Seattle also held their own "Occupy" movement yesterday and met with force from police. Today Portland prepares for it's own "Occupy" demonstration.

[Pollyanna]

this is right up there with no child left behind. Let's lower the common denominator and de-incentivize people from being all they can be. Mediocrity is king! *eyeroll*

to me, this is nothing more than a conglomeration of lazy people who skimmed that part of the constitution where it states that you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nowhere does it say that you deserve happiness. And at the end of the day, you can't level playing field. The world needs leaders and the world needs ditch diggers. We all have the right to try not to be the ditch diggers but there is just no guarantee.

*passes the soapbox to the next person*

amen!!!

[oceanchild]

I am not really a protest person. I think there's always value in hearing from the fringes, and the push they put on the comfortable middle, but I'll never be one of those people. I like answers too much. And for all the complaining, there aren't a lot of answers.

(Aside: houseelf, if you ever want to talk public pensions, come on over. I've written probably 100 pages on them this year!)

[GrayMatterWife]

GMW - I agree and I'm not saying it will, but in this economy, "Get a job," is a cruel comment to people who would love nothing more than to work and support their families.

I am saying getting a job to the people who are out protesting (not working or looking for work), but are making bumper-stick type allegations against capitalism. The vast majority of their "demands" were absolutely silly and wreak of naivety and self-entitlement. Get a job, go to work and/or do something productive instead of sophomorically bitching about the conspiratorial "evils" of capitalism and the way the world works.

[reciprocity]

this seems just as "productive" as the Tea Party rallies were - giving a voice to people who feel they have been marginalized, attempting to shift the debate on certain issues, injecting a more radical perspective into national politics

it sure seems to be a more effective route than pitching in with a third party (which just seems to increase the chances that the other party will win)

[Cinderella]

This "occupation" has been going on for 20 days. In this regards it doesn't reflect on what the Tea Party did. I now understand how it's related to Egypt's revolution with the encampment in the financial district just like the Egyptians in Tahrir Square.

They have a live stream right now at the main demonstration and they are walking around talking to people. These seem to be real people like you and I. Maybe that is because the labor unions joined in and there are unconfirmed reports the railroad employees are going to strike as well.

The police just announced over the loud speaker for people to please move all their belongings so it might get interesting watching the live stream here in a few minutes.

They just announced on October 15th they are going to occupy the London Stock Exchange!

Here is where I know and have seen video of protests:

New York, NY - the start, arrests, batons, pepper spray used.

L.A.

Denver, CO

Canton, NY

Boston

Amhers, MA

St. Louis, MO - there were arrests

Tampa, FL

New Orleans, LA

Seattle

Portland

Eugene, OR

Philadelphia, PA - they had a sit down meeting and planned for a rally

Denver, CO

Chapel Hill, NC

Baltimore, MD

Washington D.C.

I've heard the following issues addressed from people.

income inequality
lack of jobs
frustrated with unemployment
against the death penalty
a desire to raise awareness
pensions gone
student hikes over the next five years
workers of the world unite.

A PR person has approached the live stream guys telling them she's going to help them because they're going to get overwhelmed by the media as the movement grows momentum.

Hmm... Interesting...

At the same time I find irony in that the death of Steve Jobs has eclipsed the coverage of this movement. He was one of the greatest innovators of our time. A drop out and computer whiz and his last name is jobs. The advancement of technology is partly responsible for where we are at today. Yet Steve Jobs the "jobs and innovator" guy died as this movement is launched.

Just got word to add Boise and Moscow, ID to the list of cities involved.

Another girl approached them to offer her help for the livestream to increase it's quality. They interrupted the broadcast with a video. Boo!

[fluffhead]

This "occupation" has been going on for 20 days. In this regards it doesn't reflect on what the Tea Party did. I now understand how it's related to Egypt's revolution with the encampment in the financial district just like the Egyptians in Tahrir Square.

So is this whole thing about feeling left out while Arab countries are in revolt? Have we reached the point in this country where we need to emulate Egypt, Syria and Yemen? And we cheer when there are arrests - I suppose that if the army came in and mowed down the protesters, we'd call that a success.
I'm really trying to feel some sympathy with this movement, but it's getting more and more difficult.

Sometimes the whole thing reminds me of the parking lot scenes at dead shows, which would be fine and harmless, but there seems to be a more sinister edge to it.

[GrayMatterWife]

GMW, did you read the glowing praise on the OccupyWhatever website about the 34 yr old guy from California who quit his job to protest? *head desk*

Somebody gave up his job to protest?!?

I didn't see that. I guess he must equate the protests to a civil rights protest or something--a moral imperative or something...

[Cinderella]

I think I need to address the comment on the pursuit of happiness and our rights. Perhaps this will help clarify the confusion.

Capital consumes everything. That's what's been happening in our country for at least 3 decades. Democracy has been put up for sale in America. Our political will is supposed to be translated and executed by our legislative representatives. Instead of people influencing politics the actual form of political power is money. The private ends of a narrow faction have succeeded in capturing the engines of democracy. This is corrupt and it can consume the republic as we are dangerously teetering on crisis after crisis. Those who founded this country and their contemporaries knew this. They viewed history from a tragic lens knowing the life cycles of republics. They attempted to prevent private and narrow interests from over riding those of the general public. It was the great experiment of self government. The plunders of America was never meant to be a divine right for the lovers of empire.

There is no "American dream" anymore. That is a fairy tale people are being sold to appease the masses. The wealthy have no intention of sharing their piece of the pie. The middle class has been hacked away at for several decades and the divide between the rich and the poor grows wider. After the last government bailout to the banks on the tax payers dime more people in the middle class fell below the poverty level than ever before and they are staying there. People are going back to school to get an education only to find there are no jobs for them when they get out and there is a larger debt burden upon them. Or there are only lower income jobs and this is incredibly frustrating. At the same time student loan interest rates are steadily rising in addition to the steady 5% tuition hike over the last five years. Banks took financial risks that they knew were unethical while the government regulators were in their pockets. All across the US people have lost their homes to banks who don't even have the mortgage on their houses anymore because they've sold it off to shareholders. People's life savings were drained and many people went homeless and not one person responsible for this has been held accountable. And were did the money all go? It didn't just disappear. It went into somebody's pocket. It's obvious where it went. It's in the pockets of those who who stole from us. Those to big to fail. Those who make absurd profits at the expensive of a family that can't afford to feed themselves. Those who are getting bonuses on their Christmas checks while there are still mass layoffs elsewhere.

Now what we're seeing is a lot of highly educated people without jobs and under debt combining with workers and labor unions who are also under debt and with the poor and homeless. They see there is no win to this situation because of the monopolies owning everything in the country. It's no longer a democracy it's a plutocracy. The government has stopped enforcing the rules of fair play as they are on "Team Super Rich," and have become more concerned with wealth, status and opportunity than with the people. The rich proclaim they are rich and they intend to keep it. They're not sharing it and don't kid yourself. The rest of us are cattle. Our hometown names for things and our identities have been homogenized. The Pavilion where the sporting events are held is now called "Taco Bell" Arena. If that doesn't shout out to you we own you and your way of life now then what? They fleece our resources, pollute our lands and waters, steal from our bank accounts, and get a slap on the wrist for what? Steam rolling us? Beating the common mild mannered person down on a daily basis by demanding them to work harder and longer for less then ever before or they will be out of a job like the other guy? They have us believing that we should be glad to have work because we are easily replaceable. They have no respect for us but perhaps it is because we have lost our own self respect. Sure there is dignity in holding most any job but our personal dignity is being stripped from us piece by piece. From our personal privacy rights to having to nearly undress completely to take a ride on an airplane and having to submit our child to being touched by a stranger while the parent has to stand there and watch. How do they explain that to their child? And why is this ok for adults? It's crossing a line and I don't want people touching my privates. If there is some guy who sticks a bomb up his butt are we all going to have to submit to cavity searches as well? I don't want a stranger seeing nude pictures of me either with these radiation scanners. Eff them. It's a huge violation and if they want to cavity search me it's rape in my book. I just don't fly anymore.

Less than 1% earn more that 120 million Americans at the bottom and they've been raking in 50% of the national income since 2007. 97% of slush funds for politic campaigning in the last general election came from 4 billionaires. This is not the way the world works it's the way the world is made to work. This huge gulf of inequality did not just happen. It was no accident. It was the result of a long series of public policy decisions about industry and trade, taxation and military spending, with flesh and blood human beings like us sitting in prisons. They say we are the land of the free yet we hold the most prisoners in the world and they are our own citizens. They raise our taxes, reduce our services are unable to get our system back to work and those policy decisions were paid for by the less than 1% of our population who participate in democratic capitalism through campaign contributes. They use their vast wealth to insure government does their biding and yet Americans remain complacent as corporate cogs. They buy our democracy with their shadow parties cough *Citi Group* coughs. The five reactionary members of the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are persons with the right to speak during elections by funding ads like those now flooding the airwaves. Corporations are not people. They're legal fictions. Creatures of the State. They are not born from the womb, flesh and blood. They have no allegiance to citizenship. They can't vote yet they are bestowed the privilege of personhood to hire their puppets and speak for themselves? Remember that concentration of wealth is not in the pockets of many but in the pockets of a few CEO's. They have very deep pockets. It's an unfair advantage for the Titans. "So long democracy, hello plutocracy."

Those that say its not true are either disingenuous, naive or diluted. A lobbyist can walk into a politicians office and say I've got 500 million dollars to spend and it can be for you or against you. Which will it be?

Why isn't government working for us? Because it's been bought off with dirty money.

Do we have a right to the pursuit of happiness? Well as our own history has taught us with worker's rights, women's rights and civil rights that we are not entitled to our rights unless we organize, protest, demonstrate, strike, boycott, rebel and violate the law in order to uphold justice.

Just go to: Think Progress for info on who is behind the curtain pulling the strings.

[MissCrabette]

I can't decide if the people in the pictures linked by poky are the driving force behind this movement or if they're piggybacking on it. Either way, they're not lending a lot of credibility to the movement and are actually quite off-putting to me. Two things:

* Yes, the banks messed up, and they should pay for causing the mortgage crisis, down to the small-potatoes mortgage agent who brazenly advised residents to fill in their potential income as a physician on the mortgage application. That said, nobody forced these people to take those loans, and I do NOT feel sorry for them. Not one bit. And don't get me started on people walking away from mortgages.

* Why should I feel sorry for people who got degree after degree in hopes of a higher earning potential? How many people did you know back in college who chose to go to law school or get a master's degree because they didn't know what else to do with their lives? I know a whole lot of them. Why should society bail them out because they made poor choices? I'm sorry, but I'm with Lily here: this country needs leaders, but it also needs ditch diggers. Not every single job out there requires a terminal degree. It's great if some people choose to get these degrees, but it's on their own dime, and I don't want to hear any bitching and moaning when they can't find jobs at the level they were expecting.

That said, I do agree with a few issues raised by this movement, but there are so many of them, and they're so varied. Where do you begin? Do they have any solutions?

[Cinderella]

First lets see what kind of support this gains. Right now it's a few thousand in the States calling for a global change. That's a pretty big bite of the apple and change doesn't seem to come peacefully when it comes quickly. Don't even get me started on the industrialized military complex and the militarization of our civilian police force. In marxist revolutions the solution is generally a redistribution of wealth and the wealthy won't go easy. People have to be ready and willing to believe in something better for us as a global society and I think a lot of people are still afraid or complacent and want to sit on the couch in their safe place and let others do the work for them. Instead of being told how to live they'd have to reinvention the wheel. It's a lot of work. People would have to take responsibility for the economic disparity globally and choose how to live together and they're going to need communities to do it because it can't be done alone. They'd also need a level playing field and not one where the deck is stacked to one side. I predict change will come slowly in America. We're approaching winter. It won't be easy to maintain this occupation outside with the elements. However, it seems to be the year to start revolutions. They're spreading like wildfire.