Religious Observances During Residency

[alison]

And atheists should get Thanksgiving off! We ask for so little.

[Thirteen]

We went to services and made it work. Even post-call. Sometimes that meant different churches and different days, but we did it.
However, we are not in a faith that forbids any and all work on the Sabbath.
Not sure what to say about faith and residency: in my experience, you can't say much, and it is best to not rock the boat. YMMV.




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[HouseofWool]

And atheists should get Thanksgiving off! We ask for so little.

And this is why we flove you Alison!

[Pollyanna]

And atheists should get Thanksgiving off! We ask for so little.

Dh is always willing to work Thanksgiving, just not a big deal to us

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

If she genuinely thinks that, as a matter of her religious practice, she needs to abstain from work on Sundays or on days of holy obligation of whatever, she can talk with the program coordinator. But if she gets what she wants, she screws everyone else--who also might like to be at home with their families to observe the holiday, but aren't willing to use their faith in order to extort the advantage. Her position is disingenuous. She doesn't really need the day off; she just wants it because it would enhance her religious experience.

She doesn't think she needs every Sunday off. It was her preference to have Easter off. I would say this would be akin to the High Holidays for a Jewish resident. She didn't absolutely need it but was offended that the program couldn't accommodate the request for a SINGLE day when they give the Orthodox Jewish residents off EVERY Saturday. And while you're not required to abstain from all work to observe the Sabbath as a Christian, I'm pretty sure that while at work a resident isn't able to be very mindful of his/her God or meditating on scripture while operating on/treating patients around the clock on the Sabbath.

Again, she went without complaint but it brought up these questions in my mind:
I guess I just wonder if it's even fair to allow anyone to request off for a religious holiday/Sabbath. For example, if you're atheist, aren't you entitled to days off of your choosing to spend as you wish? I don't see how a specific religion makes you a protected group. This isn't ADA where an accommodation is required by law. I just feel like the nature of the job as a resident sometimes means working nights, weekends, 7 days a week, etc. and that there shouldn't really be a pass for anyone, regardless of religion. What if someone joined some weird religion where it was against the sacred tenets of the religion to not work at night, is that person that excused from overnights? Is it right that some residents work extra weekends and therefore have less time with their children/spouse just because they don't follow a religion that absolutely requires a day off?

[GrayMatterWife]

I guess I just wonder if it's even fair to allow anyone to request off for a religious holiday/Sabbath.

It's irrelevant. This isn't about fair. If you don't like the way your employer treats its employees, you are free to go somewhere else or go into another speciality.

Sorry. I just have zero sympathy. None. If I were her program director, I would put her on suicide call, every weekend for months, just to teach her a lesson. She knew the score when she signed up.

[scrub-jay]

Sorry. I just have zero sympathy. None. If I were her program director, I would put her on suicide call, every weekend for months, just to teach her a lesson. She knew the score when she signed up.

Which is probably why she only voiced this to T&S... and not to her PD.

[Ladybug]

As a medical employer I don't think hospitals can accomodate all religious observances/holidays equally so I would simply and honestly refrain from blanket religious schedule accomodations (ie Saturdays/Sundays off). Employees can switch and trade in accordance with their colleagues generosity. Yet another reason to treat others as you would like to be treated. Ungenerosity will be a self limiting behavior, and you lose the entitlements.

[diggitydot]

It's irrelevant. This isn't about fair.

100% agree.

Requesting a day off isn't the same as being told you have it off. I would be LIVID if an important day had been given off and then rescinded for some reason. But asking for a day off and not getting it in residency is just part of the territory, regardless that other people may or may not get requested time off.

Medicine is an asshole and doesn't care what is "fair".

[Pollyanna]

. Yet another reason to treat others as you would like to be treated. Ungenerosity will be a self limiting behavior, and you lose the entitlements.

Yes yes! Dh never had to work Christmas during residency but because he always covered for other residents to make their vacations/important events happen and took extra call they all offered (he never had to ask) to take Christmas because he was the only one in his class with children.

And yep, medicine and life in general just ain't fair.

T&S, you have to understand that most of us posting in this thread are at the end of training so maybe have a more realistic and harsh reaction then you may have expected.

[GrayMatterWife]

I am actually deeply sympathetic to the core of her concern: that residency not undermine her spiritual life. Residency had a strange effect on DH's spiritual life. He missed more church than he went to, and I don't think he's even opened a Bible in seven years. He has had no "growth" in the sense of scriptural knowledge or outward practice--which has the practical effect of atrophy. But, on the other hand, I think that he realizes much more so now how dependent he is on God, and appreciates mercy and grace on a much deeper level. Oddly, he is walking away from residency/fellowship as a more spiritually humble man, even though he has been less involved in church.

But I am utterly unsympathetic to the suggestion that her spiritual needs should be accommodated by the hospital. The fact that the hospital chooses to accommodate Orthodox Jews does not mean that it should be accommodating everyone. Employers are permitted discretion, even if that discretion results in seeming inequity. If you don't like that how that discretion is being used, you can always leave. But creating even more inequity is not the answer. How about the inequity of compromised continuity of care? How about the inequity of patients falling through the cracks as people scramble around to accommodate the personal needs of the physicians? How about the inequity of people who have no religious concerns being shafted, always made to work the weekends and holidays so that the religious can be accommodated?

[diggitydot]

I don't think it's necessarily "hardcore" to not have received a requested day off. I also don't see it the same way as missing your kid's birth.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

How about the inequity of people who have no religious concerns being shafted, always made to work the weekends and holidays so that the religious can be accommodated?

Again, for the 4th or 5th time, she didn't complain to her PD, she was complaining to me. She didn't make any points other than that she was disappointed that she could not be accommodated one day when others were. She wasn't bitching, she was simply bummer because she loves morning Easter Mass.

It is MY question which is basically your point above if you read my list of questions. How can one religion trump another or trump people without religion? In my opinion, it's wrong that they accept any religious requests if they can't accept them all. I assume those residents were upfront about their need for every Saturday off in residency but it seems to me that it's still unfair to other residents in the program who don't have a religious reason.

I know medicine doesn't care what's fair. I'm asking what you guys think is fair.

[Pollyanna]

I know medicine doesn't care what's fair. I'm asking what you guys think is fair.

Hmm, to be honest I never ever think about what's "fair", I only think about what is right.

If programs can accommodate religious observances and that is their practice as an employer then it is what it is, maybe not "fair" to some but the right thing to do in my mind. But at the same time, I still believe the person receiving accommodation has a responsibility to do what is right in regards to his or her team.

ETA: There is a quote (I'll have to look up who said it) that is along the lines of, "I'm not sure of the key to success but know that the key to failure is trying to please everyone".

[diggitydot]

I'm asking what you guys think is fair.

I think it's OK to be bummed when you don't get the day off you requested, but feeling butt-hurt over how unfair it is seems really silly.