WTH?? Student denied diploma for using the word hell

[scrub-jay]

Free speech in a high school? Muhahaha!! Public or not, it is unlikely free speech applies.

[PrincessFiona]

Her free speech wasn't violated though. She was allowed to give the speech and continue to the end.

She agreed to certain rules of decorum though before giving the speech.

She has a transcript and is a graduate of the institution.

The school only held back the piece of paper saying she graduated in exchange for an apology. If she claims free speech, can't the school claim breech of contract or something?

[Pollyanna]

Ugh, she reminds me of the kind of girl that feels entitled to do whatever she wants. A 4.0 does not entitle you to go against the school rules for a commencement address. She'll get a college degree and feel entitled to a corner office because she has a BS. Insert eye roll here...

Time to grow up little girl.

[v-girl]

If this comes down to a matter of free speech and it appears to be a public school then the girl wins. If it were a private school then the school would win. Though going through the legal process won't be as convenient as writing a simple apology letter. I think it's a stupid word to make your stand on either way.

Nope. She broke the rule. Tough shit, Sherlock. She needs to learn some rules aren't made to be broken and that she can't do whatever she damn well pleases.

[Cinderella]

Free speech in a high school? Muhahaha!! Public or not, it is unlikely free speech applies.

Absolutely. Students don't shed their constitutional rights when they enter a public school. There have been numerous cases applying free speech to high school students in public and private school situation.

Her free speech wasn't violated though. She was allowed to give the speech and continue to the end.

She agreed to certain rules of decorum though before giving the speech.

She has a transcript and is a graduate of the institution.

The school only held back the piece of paper saying she graduated in exchange for an apology. If she claims free speech, can't the school claim breech of contract or something?

Technically her free speech is being violated by the public school when they withhold her diploma for what she said in the graduation speech. But it is also the case school administrators have a far greater ability to restrict the speech of their students then the government has to restrict the speech of the public.

Student speech cases require a balance of educational objectives and a need for school discipline. In other words did her saying the word, "Hell", during a graduation speech cause a substantial disruption of the school's educational mission? I highly doubt it.

[ides]

I didn't realize hell was a swear word.

[scrub-jay]

Absolutely. Students don't shed their constitutional rights when they enter a public school. There have been numerous cases applying free speech to high school students in public and private school situation.

I disagree. Several legal cases have upheld the rights of the school administration to exert control over student free speech when it conflicts with or violates school policies (such as swearing... hmmm). Here are several of the landmark cases with regards to student free speech, both spoken and written (ruled in favor of administrators):

Bethel School District v. Fraser
Hazelwood School District et al. v. Kuhlmeier et al (1988)
Frederick v. Morse

Alternatively, Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School Dist. (1969) established that students "do not shed their constitutional rights...at the schoolhouse gate" (as you failed to quote) actually only applied to silently wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War. This case did not sway the decisions on the above cases that ruled in favor of the school administrators, not the student rights.

[Cinderella]

I disagree. Several legal cases have upheld the rights of the school administration to exert control over student free speech when it conflicts with or violates school policies (such as swearing... hmmm). Here are several of the landmark cases with regards to student free speech, both spoken and written (ruled in favor of administrators):

Bethel School District v. Fraser
Hazelwood School District et al. v. Kuhlmeier et al (1988)
Frederick v. Morse

Alternatively, Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School Dist. (1969) established that students "do not shed their constitutional rights...at the schoolhouse gate" (as you failed to quote) actually only applied to silently wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War. This case did not sway the decisions on the above cases that ruled in favor of the school administrators, not the student rights.

And there are several cases that favor the student rights. Public school situations the students have more chance of winning than v. private school cases. Also you have to go by the most recent landmark cases over which region they reside in unless it was at the highest level of ruling. I'll leave all that to the lawyers to figure out if this case is taken that far.

[scrub-jay]

And there are several cases that favor the student rights. Public school situations the students have more chance of winning than v. private school cases. Also you have to go by the most recent landmark cases over which region they reside in unless it was at the highest level of ruling. I'll leave all that to the lawyers to figure out if this case is taken that far.

Such as?

ETA: The examples I listed were Supreme Court decisions.

[Cinderella]

I didn't realize hell was a swear word.

I don't think it's a swear word either, especially since she was quoting an actual quote and it wasn't even really her own words.

[Cinderella]

Such as?

I have no desire to get into it with you today or any other day really.

[scrub-jay]

I have no desire to get into it with you today or any other day really.

It is fair to ask for referential documentation for claims made in the Debates forum. Especially when you attempt to debunk my argument with unsubstantiated claims.

[PrincessFiona]

If the student didn't think hell was a swear word, she should have turned it in with the original draft.

I can't imagine turning something like this into a lawsuit. This is going to be her claim to fame? If I were her parent, I'd be making sure the apology was written and delivered.

When I was in high school, one of the students who routinely got in trouble for violation of dress code by wearing an earring, walked across the stage at graduation with the earring in, pulled it out, and handed it to the principal. The principal knocked it out of his hand and withheld the diploma and the piece of paper pretending to be the diploma.

We all were of course outraged.

It turned into a big deal and the principal basically said "there are channels to go through if you don't like the policies as they are written. Welcome to the adult world."

This kid actually went on to law school! Lol. Long hair and all. I wonder what he is doing now....off to FB creep!

[Meenah]

It turned into a big deal and the principal basically said "there are channels to go through if you don't like the policies as they are written. Welcome to the adult world."

This kid actually went on to law school! Lol. Long hair and all. I wonder what he is doing now....off to FB creep!

[corn poffi]

If the student didn't think hell was a swear word, she should have turned it in with the original draft.

I can't imagine turning something like this into a lawsuit. This is going to be her claim to fame? If I were her parent, I'd be making sure the apology was written and delivered.

When I was in high school, one of the students who routinely got in trouble for violation of dress code by wearing an earring, walked across the stage at graduation with the earring in, pulled it out, and handed it to the principal. The principal knocked it out of his hand and withheld the diploma and the piece of paper pretending to be the diploma.

We all were of course outraged.

It turned into a big deal and the principal basically said "there are channels to go through if you don't like the policies as they are written. Welcome to the adult world."

This kid actually went on to law school! Lol. Long hair and all. I wonder what he is doing now....off to FB creep!

Hahaha love it!!!

I just can't believe a high school valedictorian would be dumb enough to quote "Twilight". That should be an automatic bump down in class rank.