Religion in public schools

[Michele]

How much is acceptable?

I asked D what he was thankful for and he responded "God, because he made us." He so didn't hear that at home. He told me he learned it at school.

I just got a note about the Kindergarten holiday program and hi class is singing Silent Night and each kid will be wearing "a simple 'angel halo'"

This is the local public school. Am I the only one who thinks this is a little too much religion for a public school? I would say I'm in the edge of the Bible Belt here in Jax FL. Unless it increases I'm not going to say anything to anyone locally, but I wanted hear what you all thought.

[Chrisada]

Wow, I would not be happy either. Silent Night has no place in a public school period. But I have alot of thoughts of the pervasiveness of the major religion in this country anyways. My children don't even know who Jesus is. Though I will begin reading to them about the major religions of the world.

[GrayMatterWife]

1. Re: about being made by God--did he hear about this from a teacher/part of curriculum, or from another kid? That sounds like something my son would volunteer if anyone asked him where he came from. If it came from the teacher/curriculum, that's a problem; if it came from another kid, it's generally considered protected speech and there is nothing you can do about--kids are allowed to have religious opinions and share them.

2. Re: "Silent Night" and the halos, it depends. If it is beig sung by the children as a way of experiencing Christian culture/traditions, it's ok. It is common for schools to have the kids sing The Dredel Song or do songs or poems or presentations on other faiths, too. It is a legitimate part of social studies curriculum to teach about religion through this type of method, as long as it does not require the adoption of the subject faith. The problem with teaching about any evangelizing faith (a faith seeking to gain converts) is that doing activities related to that religion may have the effect (or perceived effect) of evangelizing.

I feel for you. We are religious, and we have been in situations where the school has been teaching about other religious traditions in a way that either badly misrepresents or belittles our faith. It was not appreciated and I raised a stink about it. If I were not religious, I would not appreciate religion being presented in a way that is evangelical in the public school context.

That being said, you are deep in the Florida Bible Belt. I doubt there is much of anything you could do as a practical matter to better control the backdoor evangelicalism.

[MsSassyBaskets]

I wouldn't be happy about the situation. I get that it can be seen as a way of learning about the cultures and traditions of different religions. But honestly, at that age? I still wouldn't want it happening. Religious studies has its place in the classroom when they're at an age that they can fully understand it, and can do a full unit on each religion. I don't think participating in religious traditions in elementary school is an appropriate way to learn about religion. I would raise a stink. And now I'm envisioning just how many foolhardy battles I'm going to get myself into when I'm a parent...

[corn poffi]

We had to sing all of those Christmas songs in public school growing up. Not a single song about any other faiths or anything. I actually didn't even realize how messed up that was until I got to college. I just assumed every school was like that! I actually loved singing those songs as a kid. I didn't even know what they were about. Whoops! Now, Christmas music makes my ears bleed, so I can't say that being made to sing Christmas songs really affected me in any way

[GreyhoundsRUs]

As far as the whole God thing, they probably went around and said what they were thankful for at school. I'm sure he was parroting it because it was new.

Every district has different tolerances for religion. I only taught public school for 1 year, and was so overwhelmed, I don't remember. I have friends who teach HS in the Chicago burbs, and they can't even have a Christmas tree on their desk.

I would say Silent Night and halos is too much for a public school. Your sister teaches there, right? What does she say? Do you know of anyone in D's class that is not Christian that you could gauge a reaction from? Plus, there are plenty secular Christmas songs, and D would look just as cute with reindeer antlers I would make my opinion known since he's 1 of 3 that will be coming through that school.

[DCJenn]

We have "La Posada" in the elementary school- where yes, the kinder and 1st graders have Jesus and Mary looking for a place to have baby Jesus. He usually ends up being born in the cafeteria. I damn near fell over when I realized that's what they're doing. They couch is as "cultural" because it's a Spanish Immersion/dual language program in downtown San Antonio. I think we can all agree that learning to make tamales is cultural- looking for a manger is NOT. As the school becomes more diverse, more and more parents are speaking up. We have (2) muslim families and (8) Jewish families but a whole LOT of atheists/humanists. It makes my hair crawl every December.

As far as the songs so- if they're singing Christmas Songs and Hannukah songs and songs from around the world then it's fine. If the little halo wearers are singing only Christmas Carols then no- they need to expand their horizons.

J

[niener]

I'd be PO'd too, but you're not much further from the heart of the bible belt than I am and I know raising a stink about something like that here would go nowhere fast -- I'd loose and my kid would get the repercussions, and at that age he wouldn't understand why. The God comment would be a pretty bad offense *if* it came from a teacher, but I could easily see it have coming from another student. The silent night thing though, I don't really see a good excuse as to why that song was chosen over the multitude of secular holiday tunes. If they were singing songs from other religions or holiday traditions as well then maybe, but I'd be shocked if that were the case. I anticipate this being a battle for us in the future as well.

Religious studies has its place in the classroom when they're at an age that they can fully understand it, and can do a full unit on each religion.

This is pretty much my take on it as well. Religion is such a minefield topic and so very personal, I think it's just dangerous to bring it into a public school setting at such a young age. Religious teachings should be left to the church and the home until kids reach an age when they don't confuse religious studies in the historical/educational context with their personal belief system.

[diggitydot]

Being part of a non-religious minority in this country, other religions (particularly evangelical ones) are tough to avoid, even in public schools. Sometimes it comes from other kids; sometimes it comes from teachers or administrators. When it's from adults, I've found it pretty easy to discern the difference between evangelizing and teaching, but mileage varies.

So long as no one is trying to tell my kid that they're going to hell, I don't really get riled. And yes, that statement has actually been said to DD1. She rolled her eyes and was all, "Whatev. I don't need imaginary friends to tell me how to be a decent person..." Yeah, that started off a fun school year in a new district.

[spotty_dog]

Ugh. Like DD, I can let a lot roll off my back, and I think I'd be with you: not raising a stink at this point. I think that too much fighting over political correctness tends to detract from more important stuff like education. But it's certainly uncomfortable-making for me to think of my son reciting lyrics about Virgins and Heavenly Peace at his age. We're just starting to learn about world religions at home.

[Thirteen]

My mom (the elem. music teacher) chooses music curriculum for the "holiday" concert each year that is globally-minded. Songs about Diwali, LP, Ramadan, Hanukkah, and Christmas are featured.
She teaches at a public school, and had never put on a nativity scene, or had a "Christmas concert."

Singing Silent Night (in German, with sign language - love my Mom!) is one thing. Dressing up all children as angels is kinda pushing it.
This coming from a practicing Christian, just my 2 cents.

Have you asked D what prompted his response? I agree with GRU - perhaps someone else said it, and he parroted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Momo]

Take it from me (the mom of the only kids of our faith in the school) I would & have raise(d) a huge stink, because that song is blasphemous for a Muslim to sing!
Even if they don't sing all of the stanzas, there is no way I would allow it!!

[Vanquisher]

I hate this crap, but usually suck it up. I figure they're going to have to deal with being in a minority "religion" their whole lives, so I try to let most stuff go. I definitely remember a lot of religion in the classroom growing up. I think the halos put it over the top for me. I wouldn't tolerate that.

[Michele]

I agree that he probably parroted the god made us comment. But I don't know whether it was his teacher or another student.

I asked my sister an she had no problems with it. She always takes the schools side though in any discussion. I said that if his teacher said the god comment then it was completely inappropriate, but if a student said it it was fine. She disagreed with me and thinks its fine for the teacher to state her beliefs. She then asked me what if a student raised his hand and asked the teacher if she believes in god. I said at in appropriate for her to answer yes. I asked her what if the student asks if Jesus is her savior. She thinks its ok of the teacher responds that yes Jesus is her savior. I tried to explain how that is wrong but she doesn't get it. I then asked what if the student asked if the teacher was a lesbian. She argued that sexuality and religion are different and that it's ok to discuss the religion but not sexuality. And I countered that I think they are the same with regards to education and public school. She then tried to argue that parents wouldn't be ok with sex intercourse education to students and then we got into an argument about whether ones sexuality is the same as sex education. I said they are different. The discussion turned south quickly.

D did tell me though that he learned a Hanukah song about lighting candles. So I'm going to continue my wait-and-see plan. But I fear I may have set off a discussion by asking my sister. (Ugh. I wish she wasn't so quick to defend the entire public school system. She's totally drunk on the kool-aid.)

[SoonerTexan]

She then asked me what if a student raised his hand and asked the teacher if she believes in god. I said at in appropriate for her to answer yes.

Hmm, so what is a teacher supposed to say when directly asked? I'm seriously asking. Teachers? Obviously answering "No" is as religiously charged as answering "yes." Do you just avoid answering the question at all?

I also think there is a difference between a teacher saying "I believe that this is so" and "This is so"--obviously not a difference Elementary age children will understand, though.