Public school vs. private school

[spotty_dog]

OK, another board I visit is aflame with this article, but I don't wish to out myself there as being among the "rich people" they and the article are discussing. So I thought I'd bring it here.

If You Send Your Kid to Private School, You Are a Bad Person

So what do you think? Does your liberal guilt influence your educational decisions? Is public school a good place for your child to experience cultural, racial, and socioeconomic diversity as compared with private school? And does this consideration trump considerations such as the course catalog, teacher quality, and extracurricular opportunities? Do bright children need high-quality and/or expensive education more, or less, than average children? How about well-off vs. poor? How did your pre-college education (and/or that of your spouse) influence your (their) success in life, and do you wish the same for your children or are you aspiring to provide them with something different and/or better?

Let's get ready to rumble!

[weeniegeniewife]

Public school vs. private school

This girl grew up with modest means and public school all the way. It did not deter me from my ultimate desire to continue my education beyond college. I am proud of my public school upbringing. I had DD in private school for 2 years and they were 2 horrible, awful, excruciating years. Hate private school for 1,000 reasons. I didn't "fit in", and she didn't fit in either. I couldn't pull her fast enough and enroll her in public school. She's thriving and will continue to thrive. She's challenged just fine. Additionally, she has witnessed me working on my advanced degrees throughout the years, and I like the example that sets for her.

Private school is not better than public, IMO. And here, the stigma that comes with it was just too much for me. The private school moms made fun of me for working and not having time to "workout and spa" all day long. And that is not a joke. I was hazed horribly for not fitting into the private school mom persona. Ugh, no thanks.

[poky]

I read this the other day (someone on facebook posted it), and as the child of two public school teachers, I found myself sympathizing a bit with the views expressed. The line about putting all that energy you're using to get your kid into the best private school to make the public school better instead kinda struck a chord with me, though I recognize that it's a hell of a lot easier for one person to advocate to get one kid in the door somewhere than it is for one person to make a measurable difference in a whole school or district. That harder road has more impact on more than just your own kid, though. I don't know. It's a tough problem, and I know things can vary drastically between districts, and my experience with public school is with one pretty darn good district in a relatively affluent suburb of seattle, where we really didn't want for much of anything and had excellent teachers, and I recognize that that's my only experience and that it was also 25-35 years ago.

[houseelf]

A salacious headline always gets the most hits so I guess the article was effective in garnering a lot of clicks. This is almost as much pandering as CNN's headlines about the Miley Cyrus performance. The more quasi-offensive, the better. But the complete degeneration of American journalism is a topic for another day...

To answer the question at hand, a quick background first.

DH and I received our educations exclusively through public school, not even great public schools if the truth be told. On this side of experience, I can honestly tell you that there were gaps in my education. Partly due to the fact that the school district I attended was mediocre and partly due to my parents lack of higher education. I was raised in a solid working class culture. I definitely strive to have less gaps in my kids' education. I'm pretty sure this isn't the worst sin I've committed in the last month that could categorize me as a bad person. I love my kids and with my last dying breath I will fight for the best possible start on life for them.

In our house we've done two private and one public. The public schools is better than one of the privates and on par with the other private. In the future, we are looking for both private and public options and even considering different options to fit the needs of different children. To me, the "culture" of the school is far more important as the kids age. In our current district, kids feel peer pressure when they don't do their homework and/or they aren't in the advanced courses.

One aspect ITA with is the fact that much of the problem with underperforming schools isn't an education problem at all. It is a social work issue. How will sending children with strong familial and socioeconomic resources render better outcomes for impoverished students when the study specifically correlates a lack of reading in the home, inadequate supervision, and limitless media in their home? Honestly, one of the single most effective antidotes is to change the culture to extend the school day, teach respect, offer safe havens, etc. It breaks my heart to see the culture at some of the worst schools. Those kids don't have a chance. REally, does anyone buy into the theory we should throw more kids into these circumstances so everyone can suffer together to make change to the system as a whole? Really?

[PrincessFiona]

I'm sorry, but this article is ridiculous. The author is right. She's judgmental.

I have had kids in both private and public schools. Each has had its pros and cons. I don't buy the whole "private school moms are mean" meme. I've met more self-centered, arrogant, unfriendly, truly mean moms in our public school district than I ever met at the private prep school where our children went. Hands down. In fact, I actually moved in part because of one of the moms. So I would argue that negative experiences with 'private school moms' were less a function of a private school and more of a function of the money that people owned that sent their children to that one particular school. Money has everything to do with the issues in my own public school district, btw.

Let me get this straight. The government controls overall policies, like "no child left behind," which has a track record for making teachers teach to the test and in many districts has resulted in decreased opportunities for kids on the top of the bell curve. State governments control curriculum and often textbook selections. Think Texas and God. Parents have no control over this, let's be honest. Any parent that has fought to improve their school can tell you that. Trust me.To make matters worse school district funding has created districts with severely underperforming schools. Even some good districts have schools that don't make the grade.

If you listen to the author of this article, if every parent sent every child to public school, then the public schools would eventually get better.

Really?

That's like saying every sick patient should go to the biggest, worst ranked hospital in the City. Sure, it will suck for them and might have irreparable consequences, but maybe someday if everyone goes there, it will get better.

The consumer doesn't have the right to choose the best quality for themselves? That's ridiculous. As a parent, I find it is my job to look for the best pediatrician, and dentist for my child. It is also my job to find the best fit for them when it comes to school.

It is the job of the public schools to get better FIRST ... then people will flock back to them. For the record, I've experienced good and bad public and private schools. I'm not making a sweeping generalization about either.

The truth is that our public school does some things well. They have built in programs for children with special needs that can better help prepare them for real life than a private school. That's why our daughter goes to the public school and our tax dollars and child are invested there. The local private prep school had the most rigorous college preparatory program for middle and high schoolers. There was no comparing the level of work that they did there with what was being offered in the AP classes at our local (excellent) public school. That's why we selected the private school for our boys. I was a private school mom. I can guarantee that I wasn't arrogant, and when I pulled up in my decorated van and opened the door, I wasn't judging anyone for not working out or not running off to the spa ... I was more worried about what they were thinking as the kids Monster drinks and my diet cokes rolled out onto the ground.

Bottom line. There is no one size fits all school to meet the needs of each child. There is a place for both private and public education.

ETA
Sandy, I truly believe that there is no amount of energy that you can put into making changes to your public school that will ever be worthwhile or effective. I have exhausted myself on small issues. At some level, parents also have lives and families to take care of. There just isn't time to campaign to the level that it would take.

I am not saying all public schools are bad. I also am a product of public schools. But I don't apologize for sending the boys to the private school and I will be sending Zoe and Aidan as well when they are old enough (6th grade). The private school gave us a deep sense of community and belonging and because of the small class sizes, and close communication we had with all of the teachers, we had the sense that they cared about our children like we did.

[GrayMatterWife]

Every time I hear this argument, I always think: didn't work out so well for Amy Carter, huh? She was kind of a misguided disaster for years. I don't want that for my kids. Compare that to Chelsea Clinton, who had one of the best educations money can buy. Accomplished, refined. And I notice that the Obamas have no problem doing the same for their daughters. Don't see them in the DC public school system.

There is absolutely no way I would EVER allow somebody else's white/elite/classist/whatever guilt (which is exactly what it sounds like the author suffers from) dictate what I do in the best interests of my child. I can afford to send my children to private school because I worked my ass off for that. I don't feel guilty about having the money to have choices, and I don't feel the least bit of allegiance to a sub-par public school system just because we live here. I pay my taxes, as I am obligated, and I have no problem with that. I feel allegiance to my kids. I am not morally obligated to subject my child to a sub-par education. I will do everything within my power and resources to provide to them the education that I believe is most appropriate for them. If the public option fails to provide that, then I will provide something else. Education is my top priority, next to their health and religious welfare.

I went to an awful public school and I paid dearly for it in college. We didn't have money for a private school education--I don't blame my parents. I am sure I would have gone to a different school if I could have. But I will never, ever put my kids through a sub-par education, if I can do anything about it.

That being said, I would NOT send my kids to a private school when the public school option is as good--which is a VERY common thing here in Snobsville (Atlanta). It is a status thing. People literally plan out which private school they want to send their kids to so that their kids will "circulate" with the right people. Give me a freaking break. I am not remotely interested in playing that game. Boston Latin is on par with Horace Mann, and many state colleges are better than a whole heck of a lot of private colleges. Public does not always mean bad, and private does not always mean better. And, Fantastic Private School A is not necessarily better for Kid X than Reasonably Good Public School B...it just DEPENDS. On the child. On his needs. On about a thousand things. But, in making that determination, I would never factor in whether I "owe it" to the public school system.

This is all part of the "the child belongs to the community/it takes a village to raise a kid" stuff. Uh, no. I do not owe you/my community/my local public school my child, and it is none of your business how I raise my child. My child is MINE, not yours. I am responsible for his education, his welfare, and his upbringing. I am responsible for being sure that he becomes a man of character, who reaches for his potential. If I do not think that the public school option will best aid in that goal, then I don't "owe it" to anyone to pick that route.

I owe the community NOTHING at the expense of my child's best interests. Ever. And it is not in my child's best interest to get a poor education on the preposterous argument that his presence in public school is "owed" to the community.

[PrincessFiona]

Public does not always mean bad, and private does not always mean better.

This is so true ... and we also have seen the same thing re: colleges/universities. When Andrew was applying, we did look at a private University in Minneapolis that had a Science program that he was interested in. The cost/yr was over $50,000. That's a whopping $200k for an undergrad degree before books. Sure, I know that they often offered great 'savings' via their scholarships, but even at that it would have come in at a deal: 38,000/year. Ummmm. No thanks.

He ultimately applied only to State schools. I can't think of a single person who didn't ask us why he was applying only to the public schools .... even my most liberal, tree--hugging friends.

For him, our local State school was the best option for a lot of reasons. The private University down the road from us didn't even get a second look. I know the professors in the department he will be taking his major classes and they are solid. Why pay more, when you can get the same/similar quality for less.

[spotty_dog]

That's like saying every sick patient should go to the biggest, worst ranked hospital in the City. Sure, it will suck for them and might have irreparable consequences, but maybe someday if everyone goes there, it will get better.

Yes! I think this is actually the exact point the author is driving at. No way in HELL was I delivering my baby at the county hospital! They were big! Impersonal! Cut corners! I don't begin to regret choosing different options for birthing my kids, ones that probably cost more but had better amenities. And yet...so many women had NO choice. Didn't they, too deserve intimate, personal, detail-oriented medical care? If someone says we are bad for not choosing crowded county hospitals, we might cringe...scoff...laugh outright...glower. But what we do then? If we refuse to work from the inside, then how *do* we make the institution decent enough that people with choices will choose it?

I sure don't have an answer, when it comes to public school. I will admit, on an idealistic level I agree with the author. We moved here and we knew there wasn't a lot of school choice. "If it's good enough for the locals," we figured, "it's good enough for our offspring. Especially since we will give them a rich home environment and lots of exposure to outside experiences through trips and such."

But that was then; now, my firstborn is about to be in full day school. I'm about to sacrifice the best parts of 5/7 of his days to that system. And I was fairly OK with that, in the abstract, especially when I thought his academic abilities would be pretty average. He was a dead average kid when he entered kindergarten, and I was so pleased! Our school has good parents, good teachers, good kids and gets average kids through a decent curriculum just fine from what I've seen. But this summer he has blossomed, and now that he is already so far above grade level I don't know how they will handle him -- I fear they will bungle it and turn him completely off of learning. This is pretty much my parenting nightmare, I tend to feel like I was bungled in grade school and never really recovered. And DD is coming up fast behind...she won't be so lucky as to enter kindergarten at par, given that she's 4 and reading about a second grade level. :\

I do think that as a family of means, with highly-educated parents, having our kids enrolled will mean that we provide a benefit to the public school. I can be the PTA treasurer, volunteer in the classroom, volunteer to tutor, start a math or programming or robotics club. I can make a difference. But at what cost to my kids? If there were a private school option in our area, I'd be doing the research about now, just because I'm a planner. But there's not. And honestly, we're so tight-fisted at the moment that it'd take a LOT for us to unclench and pay private school tuition. I always felt comfortable with the public school option because I had homeschool as a reassuring safety net -- I've been researching different educational approaches since before I was pregnant, I'm confident I can teach my kids. But pulling the trigger will not be easy, if it's ever even possible.

Nothing in parenting is ever easy though, is it?

[GreyhoundsRUs]

I haven't read the article or responses, but as an (somewhat disenfranchised and jaded) educator and parent (who will have some means), here are my thoughts:

I attended Catholic school until I graduated from college, save 2 years in FL. During that time, I attended a public school. I have taught only in Catholic schools, except my first year teaching. My experiences with the public schools were some of the worst years of my life. That being said, I would send my girls to a public school if I felt it was the best option for them. I am not naive enough to pin my horrible experiences on "public school", but rather, THOSE particular schools and other issues (living in FL was a rough patch for our family, obv, the discontent of my parents trickled down.)

Education in the US sucks ass. Period. I don't have the answer, but the crap that has been tried ain't cutting it. Seriously - I can see the "downfall" of our super-power status happening before my eyes. Might doesn't make right in the long run - we need educated thinkers and innovators. Sigh. So, who's doing it "right" stateside, or at least "better" (generally)? Honestly - the international schools - specifically those who have adopted an integrated IB curriculum (not just offering "IB" (honors) classes, but employing a widely accepted European curriculum and teaching methodologies). International schools cost big bucks and aren't everywhere.

Because formal education in a majority of schools is sub-optimal, it's important to look at other factors when choosing a place to babysit your kids and spew factoids at them. Those factors vary widely from one child to another, and from one family to another. Personally, we will send our kids to Montessori preschool, and Catholic school from K on, but have no reservations about pulling them and placing them in private or public school. We feel that Catholic schools, overall, provide a nice, middle-of-the-road education. Supplementation in the girls' areas of interest will be almost a given, but we're ok with that. It is more important to us that the kids get the education in their faith as well, even though it might be at the expense of their acceptance into Harvard


Wife of a PGY-4 Orthopod

[SuzySunshine]

My daughter is only two weeks into school and I've already learned a lot. Hah! But with that said, no I don't agree with the article. I think this is very true:

I do think that as a family of means, with highly-educated parents, having our kids enrolled will mean that we provide a benefit to the public school. I can be the PTA treasurer, volunteer in the classroom, volunteer to tutor, start a math or programming or robotics club. I can make a difference. But at what cost to my kids?

If we were in our training location we would have had a REALLY hard choice between the catholic schools and the public schools, they are both phenomenal. I also don't believe that my kids must go to the same school either. If we find as the kids grow and learn that one is better at public or one at private or one at catholic I don't have an issue with that. We need to find the circumstance where they learn better, where they thrive and where they will love to learn. I think that will be a LOT easier to deciper as they get older, as little ones when we don't really know yet its hard.

My biggest issue with our school right now is this stupid green/yellow/red behavior thing but now I'm hearing from friends in other cities with kids in public schools that they use it too - my MIL tells me she used it when she taught 30+ years ago.

My biggest issue with the public schools isn't the lack of parent involvement which is what everyone going there MIGHT increase its the government - they need to stay OUT of the classrooms, out of what the kids learn and how. If there were less private schools would the public schools have better teachers? Maybe, maybe not because those that are really good at teaching might go into a different field if there were fewer spots. This article assumes a lot of things, none of which I think is directly linked to those more fortunate not sending their kids to the public school.

[GrayMatterWife]

I don't have the link for it easily at hand, but if anyone is interested: Dana Goldstein of Slate.com wrote an article some months back, I believe, making a very similar argument in terms of homeschooling by liberals/progressives. Her thesis is that homeschooling is contrary to liberal/progressive values. Lot of social justice oriented arguments, that sort of thing. I am not a liberal/progressive, so her call-against-homeschooling was not focused on me (but, I think it could easily be expanded to a judgment against anyone who homeschools). But, it is pretty intellectually honest to liberal/progressive values (although it doesn't really reconcile the appropriateness of liberal/progressives choosing private education). It is well-written and thoughtful. It is a philosophical complement to the article referenced in this thread. Forbes also had an article of the other bent. It was titled something like "Stick it to the State: Homeschool." I think the premise of both articles could apply to the choice of private schooling, as well. If you google, you should be able to find them.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I haven't read the article either but I did just want to combat one thing - public schools aren't always more diverse than private schools. I grew up in a small, white, 99% Christian town. I went to school 60 miles away at an all girls private school where 50% of kids were on major, major financial aid. By sending me to that school, I did experience unbelievable wealthy kids but I also had friends of different races, religions, ethnicities, etc that I never ever would have gotten in my town.

What I didn't get? Diversity in terms of academics and in terms of parental support. Every girl at my school had parents who cared a lot and expected excellence. It was an extreme pressure cooker. So while I was exposed to unbelievable levels of education starting in 6th grade and was completely prepared for a very rigorous start to college, I was also burnt out from pulling all nighters starting at 14 to finish the massive piles of work.

My children will go to the best school they can - public or private. Myriad factors including school district, diversity, and our finances will drive our ultimate choice of school but I'm not willing to blindly choose one educational option over another in the name of altruism OR snobbery. My kid isn't an experiment.

[Rapunzel]

Childbirth, breastfeeding, public vs private school, and a billion other parenting decisions: Why must everything be political? Gah. The older I get the more I just shrug my shoulders and think, "Meh. Just do what works for your family. Screw the critics no matter what you choose."

[peggyfromwastate]

childbirth, breastfeeding, public vs private school, and a billion other parenting decisions: Why must everything be political? Gah. The older i get the more i just shrug my shoulders and think, "meh. Just do what works for your family. Screw the critics no matter what you choose." :d

ita!!

[Vishenka69]

I agree that the article was written in a way that would get the most clicks and shares. It doesn't necessarily reflect the author's real thoughts or actions.

That said, the reason we moved to PA and bought our house was because we believe this is a good area to raise kids and it's located in a good school district. So far the plan is to start with public school and see how it goes. If the need will arise, private will be considered. It's still several years until we even get to that point.