kindergarten "red shirting"- again

[houseelf]

http://www.slate.com/articles/double...dergarten.html

This topic is near and dear to my heart as it profoundly affects two of my kids. My daughter is August 20th and I was quasi-bullied into sending her to kindergarten right on time. I'm not kidding, her preschool teacher and the principal couldn't believe I would contemplate holding a gregarious, intellectually bright child even though I told them that she would not be eligible in many other places in which we had contemplated moving. This speech was delivered in one of those condescending, "Are you overenmeshed with your kid?" Ah, to go back in time and have a redo...but I digress.

Fast forward to 4th grade, DD tears it up academically and she is socially adjusted, Every now and then I think, "Yep she is young." This shows up sometimes when I observe her play sports or overhear topics that her peers talk about. She just isn't quite there. She is young but she tends to skew a bit young as well, if that makes any sense. It isn't a BFD, very subtle, but I do notice it. Although I have second guessed myself about this 5 million times, it really probably was the best decision for her. Or Maybe we made it the right decision, I don't know.

My youngest (4) has a May 29th birthday. He has been in speech for 2 years, is tiny (5th percentile for his age), and tends to hit developmental milestones on the late side (talking late, walking late, just now going through the control issues that my other kids went through at age three). He also can only focus for about 10 minutes and then he is done with anything remotely academic. I had a lot of peace about my plan to hold him until I saw this article. (DAMN YOU SLATE AND NEW YORK TIMES! ) We live in an affluent district where everyone holds. (I'm not kidding, February, March, April- many kids are held). There is a huge push for kids to be reading by the end of kinder. Kids are "flagged" for first grade if they are not. (Thank you, No Child Left Behind, Kindergarten is so much pressure now!)

My oldest child has an early winter birthday and he has far more older friends than younger. While I mostly still am at peace with holding my youngest, I *get* that sometimes not having the advantage of size or ability can create a better work ethic which so critical in life long success. My oldest just made both local travel lacrosse teams while several other local kids who actually have more natural athletic ability didn't make the team. Frankly, he has had to chip away and practice to make something of himself. He had to "go get it".

So, font of eternal iMSN wisdom, chip in. Talk about it at a macro and micro level. I'm especially interested in the educator's point of view. (Paging Sally, paging Sally, I know you are both an educator and your middle kid has a May 29th birthday and his relative youth hasn't always been an attribute.)

[MrsK]

I overheard a discussion about this at our preschool yesterday. Apparently, the director is encouraging parents to hold kids back for another year of pre-school. They call it "the gift".

K1 has a mid December birthday. I do not intend to start him in kindergarten until Fall 2015, a couple months before his 6th birthday. In the meanwhile, he attended preschool 3d/wk last year, will attend 4d/wk this year, and then 5d/wk pre-K next year. The days he's not in school, he has "dates" with mom. In the past, we've spent those dates at museums, libraries, playgroups, nature class, etc. I don't see a problem with holding provided that the kids are having enriching, educational experiences outside of school. If he were spending our dates watching TV while I did chores, I'd be more inclined to push him into school full time.

K2 has a June birthday and will be eligible for kindergarten in 2016. IDK how I feel about holding him. I'm going to see how it goes. In the meanwhile, he did preschool 2d/wk last year, he's doing 3d/wk this year. My plan is to increase to 4d/wk next year and then 5d Pre-K the year after. That would have him on schedule to start kinder in 2016, just after his 5th birthday, but we'll evaluate as he gets older and try to meet him where he is.

FWIW, I was a Sept birthday and the youngest in my class. I sort of wish I'd had the extra year.

[HouseofWool]

I think "red-shirting" a kid to play the odds so he will be bigger/more developed than his peers is a bad idea. However, your kiddo, who hits developmental milestones late might benefit from starting late. I would lean towards giving him more time to catch up. Seriously, the "experts" seem to change their minds like most people change underwear. I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock into the research because you are not holding him back so he will exceed his peers, but rather so he will be on par with them. Very, very different scenarios.

[Sheherezade]

My son has a late July birthday. He is young. High school senior. It has not been a problem for 95% of his schooling. Academically, he's more advanced than many in his class. HOWEVER, he is now looking at colleges and he's not ready, I think, emotionally. I know many kids are going through this that are older, but it is so hard for me to not think "What if he was just a junior this year?" He'd be so ready next year. This one? He's nervous. What to do with his life? He just turned 17 three months ago. He's feeling the pressure and I'm thinking it's not fair to throw this at him a year earlier than it is hitting his friends. He'll turn 18 at a week or so before he leaves home.

So..... I'd take comfort in that if you want to hold him. Of course, if you send him, he'll be fine.

ETA: Conversely, I have a Nov. birthday and started school before turning 5 and college before turning 18. (Turned 18 in NYC, Wahoo!) For me, that was a FINE choice, and getting out of my home was a good thing. But, I was born 35. Not every kid is the same; I guess you know your kid better than the NYT.

[MsSassyBaskets]

I often wonder what my life would be like if I'd been held. My birthday is late August but I started K right after (like, the day after) turning 5. I would have been bored to tears early on, since even through I was the youngest person in every class I was still usually setting the upper limit on achievement while in elementary school. But a few years later, things like study skills, self-discipline, and the ability to self-motivate matter as much as achievement and aptitude. I should have been held back for high school. I wonder if I'd had the maturity to deal with certain situations, if I would have made different life choices and gotten my shit together at a younger age. Leaving for college days after I turned 18 was probably not a smart choice for me or my parents. Just my two cents.

[HouseofWool]

As a May birthday, I know was emotionally immature for my age (part of that was my ADD too) and I didn't really get my life together until recently. Seriously. However, as it was, I was seriously bored academically and it would have been even worse if I had been held back. There were classes were I was challenged (chemistry is the bane of my academic existence - the sole reason I won't go to PA school now), but for the most part, I skated through. But, relations with my peers were weird. I was weird. *shrug* Maybe I am still weird, but I am comfortable in my skin now.

[Pollyanna]

Seriously, the "experts" seem to change their minds like most people change underwear. I wouldn't put a huge amount of stock into the research because you are not holding him back so he will exceed his peers, but rather so he will be on par with them. Very, very different scenarios.

Yes, exactly this! And look at the economy when this became popular, healthy, roaring. People had extra cash for more preschool. Now we have a crap economy and people are hurting thus the justification for not red-shirting and spending money on preschool. It's actually interesting to follow different theories as they relate to the economy.
Anyway, holding your guy back makes sense to me. DS17 has a July birthday and he was held back. Our kindergarten and preschool director both said to consider that boys are about 6 months behind girls developmentally at that age. Given that and his young age he would have been 18 months behind some of the students just from a developmental perspective. For DS17 that extra year was a gift as he became more of a leader. Academics were never an issue. Actually, the only negative for him was sports. They fill the local teams based in birthdays so he always had to play with the older kids and never had classmates on his teams. And by the time they get to sophomore year in HS most of the boys have gone through puberty so it all balances out anyway. Honestly, the positives for DS have been endless. I have seen lots of kids held back and lots pushed through. It's really child and environment dependent. I found the authors comment about the younger child having to "work for it" a bit annoying and self serving. I think we teach and encourage our children to push and work for things no matter where their birthday falls.
I would go with your gut on this, you will know what is right for your child.

ETA: Angie's post reminded me of another thing our preschool director said, "you're not holding him back because he can't handle kindergarten, you're holding him back for the person he will be when he's 16, 17, and 18". She had a son she held back who was in HS at the time.

[PrincessFiona]

At a macro level, I think this is just one more area where we are overthinking our children's lives and are attempting to step in and micromanage. I'm not a fan of the engineered attempt to put ones child a the head of the class. My high school boyfriend was 17 when he graduated and started college. He was emotionally immature at the time, but he turned out to make a fine doctor. I had a June birthday and would not have benefited from being held back a year. I was fairly bored with school and was eager to move on to college. I was also emotionally immature ... but tbh, I didn't grow up until I was about 21. Holding me back one year wouldn't have made any difference.

As a mom, I have debated this a lot. There was a time that I felt guilty for not holding Amanda back. She has a May birthday, but was socially, emotionally, and academically unprepared for school. What I realized though is that the issues that were causing me to think she might not be ready really needed to be addressed through the special ed system and that 1. happened earlier because she started school on time and also 2. would not have changed had I held her back.

Amanda is a senior in high school this year. She has survived, grown, changed and developed right along with her peers. Some of them are more mature and some of them are less so (even though they are older than her). I am at peace with where Amanda is as a senior this year. Holding her back wouldn't have changed her learning disabilities or social skills. Emotional maturity for all kids comes with time and age is not the primary determinant there. I wish my daughter didn't have learning disabilities that make her life harder, but I'm not unhappy now about not holding her back.

[v-girl]

DD1 is a late June birthday who was a late bloomer. We held her back at the recommendation of her preschool teachers. It was the best thing for her. While she could read and write, she just wasn't their maturity-wise. She will turn 19 right before she goes to college or joins a ballet company (whichever she chooses is fine). DD2 is a late Dec birthday and started K at 5.5. Did just fine. The boy is a whole other story.

[migirl]

This is very timely as it's been on my mind a lot lately. DD just turned 3yo (Sept bday), and has begun her first year of preschool. My initial plan for her was two years of 3x/wk preschool just like both of her brothers, and then on to kindergarten. She would be *just* turning 5 at the start of kindergarten.

But, the more people I talk to the more I feel like maybe she could benefit from an extra year ... at a "Young 5s" program, for example. I've never heard anyone regret being on the older side of their class/peers, it just seems that there's no real benefit to the child to being on the young side. I'd want to hold her mainly to give her the extra time to develop and grow emotionally and socially. I'm going to keep an open mind, though, and see where she is in 1.5 years and then decide

My oldest DS (7yo) was a few months shy of 6 when he started K and is doing fine in school (socially, academically, etc). My younger DS (5yo) was 5.5 when he started K this month and is already academically ahead of his brother at this age (he read "Go Dog Go" in its entirety to me last night ... I was shocked, bc I didn't know he could read like that!) and seems emotionally equal to his peers as far as I can tell so I think he'll be okay too.

The decision for both of them was sort of taken out of my hands, though, as the cutoff birthday was 12/1 when they both started. Now it's been changed to 9/1, which makes my DD's 9/22 birthday tricky.

[diggitydot]

Truly, I think it's entirely kid-dependent. Red-shirting either of our girls would have driven them (and me) batshit crazy. They were READY for K.

DS has a late-May birthday and we TOTALLY should have waited a year to put him in K. Between his language issues and ADHD, he wasn't ready, at all. We actually ended up holding him back for a 2nd trip through 5th grade because he was REALLY immature compared to his peers. It's the best educational decision we've ever made for him.

[HouseofWool]

Honestly, I think DD is academically ahead enough right now that she could easily be completing kindergarten work. Although I got her report card and I think the teacher is on crack. DD uses 4 syllable words correctly all the time, rarely messes up on grammar and still ended up getting Making Progress on "communicating effectively with peers". (vs, achieving standards or exceeding standards - I cannot figure out WTF the standards are because she knows 90% of her letters, can write them all clearly and definitely exceeds the other kids in her class as far as verbal communication)

My biggest concern with her is that she will flame out in school because she is BORED and causing trouble because she isn't challenged enough. I don't think she is gifted, but she is bright and quick to intuit her way through a problem.

[Phoebe]

Truly, I think it's entirely kid-dependent.

This. My kids are older in their classes because they just missed the cut off date. With boys they typically mature slower than girls. So from what you described, I think I would wait to start your son. I have a friend with 4 boys who is a teacher. The first kid was born in July. They held him back to start. The second boy has a May birthday. He went ahead to school. Their mom has told me multiple times she wished she had held son 2 back a year. I have actually never heard anyone say they had wished they started their child earlier, only regretting starting them too soon. I take that as it is okay to have a child older in class and if there is a question whether to send a child onto K before they are ready, they haven't been disappointed if they held their child back a year.

[GrayMatterWife]

I don't care if other people "red shirt", but my problem was: I had no clue that people did this at parochial schools in St Louis! I learned only later that parents do this so that their boys are physically bigger and more skilled...so they can be the best at...wait for it...league soccer.

I kid you not. League soccer. Because, apparently, that is what is important. (Looking back, I guess it makes sense. Half the dads all went to school together and played soccer together in high school and now...as grown men... continue to play adult league soccer with their old high school buddies. Uh, yeah...)

My poor July birthday five year old turned up for kindergarten with 6-1/2 year olds! He was so sad and miserable all year.

Irony: he absolutely KILLED on the academics. He was probably the best-performing kid in the class. He ran circles around the other kids. It wasn't even close. I was totally overwhelmed. It was the first time I had to deal with DS's giftedness and what that meant--and didn't mean. I had no help--the school basically just wanted him to leave because they were not equipped to deal with him. He was completely bored in school. I had no idea what to do. He even got the highest score in Religion. At a Roman Catholic School (we're Anglican). So, like many marginalized, five-year-old boys, he started to act out. Now, he maintained perfect grades without even trying, but got in trouble every.single.day. He became known as the "bad kid."

So, he had the LOVELY experience of having a much higher-level vocabulary, high-level thinking, and better fundamentals than most of the other kids, PLUS being the smallest kid in his class (smaller than even the girls!) and coming from a family with ZERO sports skills (so, he had very limited sports skills). Oh, plus, his level of play was WAY different than the other kids. While the 6-1/2 year old boys were playing organized sports, DS was playing imagination/fantasy games. Somehow, though, he made tons of friends and never got beat up. But it was so pathetic--OTHER PARENTS would come up to me and say that everyone knew that DS was the "bad kid." One very kind mother told me that I should move him to a different school--that it was obvious that he was a bad fit. And she was a GOOD friend of mine and her son was a good friend of DS.

It was a horrible, heartbreaking year. My son used to say that he was weird and he didn't understand why he was so different. He was... FIVE. Five.

Pulled him the hell out of there as soon as we could. I don't think we'll ever go to a Roman Catholic school again. It sounds terrible, but the experience was so isolating that I (probably improperly) associate the two. I guess I had just hoped that a school with the clear mission of living a Christ-like life would have had a little more compassion for my "misfit" (!!) son. (My son, on the other hand, has nothing but POSITIVE memories of the religious side of his experience at the school--he loved the priest, the religion classes, going to mass--so I am thankful that he doesn't somehow associate the problems from that year with Christianity...)

That was our experience with red shirting.

[spotty_dog]

I often wonder what my life would be like if I'd been held. My birthday is late August but I started K right after (like, the day after) turning 5. I would have been bored to tears early on, since even through I was the youngest person in every class I was still usually setting the upper limit on achievement while in elementary school. But a few years later, things like study skills, self-discipline, and the ability to self-motivate matter as much as achievement and aptitude. I should have been held back for high school. I wonder if I'd had the maturity to deal with certain situations, if I would have made different life choices and gotten my shit together at a younger age. Leaving for college days after I turned 18 was probably not a smart choice for me or my parents. Just my two cents.

Hi birthday twin! I celebrated my 18th birthday with my new college peers while on a "breakaway" camping trip for freshman orientation. I never felt ridiculously young, I don't think, except that I hit drinking age (both Canadian and American) later than others. However, I was fairly aware throughout school that I was, in fact, younger than most. Kids were getting into a lot of trouble I wasn't ready for.

In this area I see more girls being pushed forward, rather than boys being held back. October and November birthday girls' parents are insisting to test into school while they are 4 or else putting them in private first grade at 5 and then jumping them into second grade public school at 6. Honestly I can't imagine. I think because my own parents were so averse to grade skipping, and because I was aware of being young in school. I couldn't see being much younger, academically prepared or not.

I've been very grateful that my kids' birthdays landed where they did. DS is October, so he's on the older end without my having to do anything about it. (He wouldn't have been ready to be away from me at 5 or 5.5, but by a couple months before he turned 6, he thrived in the kindergarten setting.) DD is in February, and goes to a mixed age preschool, so she has mostly younger kids with her and it's been good for her. Because of her middle of the year birthday I'm neither tempted to hold her back nor to advance her. She could do the first grade curriculum right now -- actually, she *does* the first grade curriculum, most of DS's homework is on the computer and DD sneaks on and does it for him. But she is absolutely not ready for the structure of the classroom or the 5 days a week schedule and I don't expect her to be until she's 6. I'm fine with slow and steady.

For your DS...I'd listen to your mama instinct. May would be super borderline for me, having him turn 7 during kindergarten...10 during third...it does put him in an awkward place compared to his peers. A thought though...it looks like in your state, compulsory education doesn't begin until age 6 or enrollment in kindergarten, whichever comes first. What if you keep him home for the year, but keep his environment rich with educational opportunity, and then consider putting him straight in first grade when he's 6.

Anyway. It's not easy. Nothing in parenting is easy!