Matt Walsh: Robin Williams didn't die from a disease he died from his choice

[MAPPLEBUM]

A good friend of my husband's family just committed suicide a well. The subject has been on our minds and subject of conversion. I'm just chiming in to say life can be really tough and I understand a persons right to terminate their life. I know I'm in the minority in thinking it's a persons choice and right but there it is. My mother was suicidally depressed for most of my adolescence into college. If she killed herself today I would be devastated, of course, but relieved for her that she's finally found rest from an illness that has never relented no matter how much therapy and medication.

[Sheherezade]

Yeah, it's muddled for me too. I always see it in the light of terminal illness. I feel like people need to have the right to choose, and if they are depressed I feel like there's no way to turn that around. If you are in pain and dying, you will be depressed. Your choice to end your life might be rational.

Anyone reevaluate their thinking after the news of RW Parkinson's diagnosis came out?

[Vanquisher]

I have always been an advocate for the right to die. I feel the same as I did before.

[diggitydot]

I have always been an advocate for the right to die. I feel the same as I did before.

Same here.

Granted, I've been around the "death with dignity" group literally my entire life. This was one of my mom's bosses when I was a kid:

http://healthland.time.com/2012/03/1...ast-interview/

Peter was one of the kindest, sweetest, most generous people I've ever known.

[Ladybug]

So how do we determine when you have the right to die from depression and illness? It's a slippery slope. Elderly, parents of children at home, teenagers, non minors? People with terminal illnesses have advocated and touched peoples lives through their struggle. They still found meaning and purpose in their final struggles. We are all born with the physical freedom to kill ourselves whether it's legal or not. It is ultimately a choice we have been given, however I would never support someone in that choice.

[Sheherezade]

Exactly. That's why this issue of whether suicide is a choice or a symptom is a conundrum for me.

[Vanquisher]

Depression is not a terminal illness. It can be. Suicide is *not* a choice. It's not like choosing turkey or ham on your sandwich.

I've never had a terminal illness, but I've seen enough people who have. With a terminal illness, you're not going to necessarily be depressed. Sure, you definitely can be, but not necessarily. You can be a happy person and just really sick and not want to get to the point where you are shitting yourself and don't know who your children are. That's a choice, and one I support. It's a reasoned, rational decision.

Suicide from depression is a tragedy by which a person cannot be rational. They cannot see worth, hope, joy, love. They only feel pain.

The two can absolutely be intertwined. If you are a person who battles depression and suicidal thoughts, and you get a terminal diagnosis, it could be the last straw sending you into that dark place. Or it could be that this is the rational choice now.

Further, getting a terminal diagnosis in someone who doesn't normally suffer with depression, might cause a severe situational depression.

Regardless, I am definitely in favor of helping suicidal people to find hope and treatment. I am also in favor of letting terminally I'll people end their own lives on their own terms.

[Ladybug]

I hear what you're saying regarding the inability of a depressed person to making a free choice regarding suicide. That is why I would never support that decision and do everything to help them find healing, hope, love and support. Taking your own life though, whatever circumstances you package it in, is suicide. I *think* a rational person could decide to end their life. I'm not 100% on that, but I can definitely see an argument for it. I realize a lot of this comes down to a life view, but I experienced a special intimacy in sickness and care. Yes, we let go of a lot of our pride in becoming physical vulnerable and fragile, but I've also seen it equally matched by love and care. I don't buy the whole "I don't want to be a burden" argument. I think deep down it expresses a fear that loved ones won't want to take care of them at their most vulnerable moments. I've also seen loved ones significantly impacted by their experiences of caring for terminally ill children, partners and loved ones. We have the ability to say yes or no to those experiences, but I think we need to broaden our view of what those experiences mean.

[Vanquisher]

I understand what you are saying too, but the difference is one of them is going to die soon regardless. Terminal is just that. Suicide in the face of a terminal illness is not the same thing as suicide solely due to depression.

If I was terminal, depending on my likely progression of disease, absolutely I'd consider suicide.

No way do I want to burden my husband and kids with that, and it can be a huge burden. I don't need anyone to prove their love for me by changing my colostomy bag and filing my toenails and washing my vag while I yell and moan in pain for the rest of my life. No.

I would be a caregiver if necessary, but I will not force that on my family. I would not think less of anyone in my family if they chose either scenario, but for me, hand me the pills.

[Ladybug]

What I hear is that you'd prefer to control the circumstances of your own death. I get that. We're all terminal the minute we draw breath in this world. I'm concerned about a society where we consider sick people a burden. I do think it can be financial burden, and particularly difficult for families that live far away. I'm inclined to think it's the system and society we've created that is the problem, more so than the sick and dying loved ones. I don't want to see us go all Dauntless, booting the elderly out, metaphorically speaking, because they can't physically function as well or have become sick. Hand me the Amity bread BTW as a nurse I've never viewed caring for sick, dying people as proving love, but as expressing and giving love to be received in vulnerable circumstances. I've witness some very intimate and personal moments between loved ones caring for their dying. It's difficult, but it's so beautiful too…even washing the vag.

[Ladybug]

BTW when I said "I get that" I meant I understand, and can relate. I think deep down we all feel that way, even praying for a specific outcome is a form of wanting to control or change circumstances. I hope it didn't come off flippant. I honor your feelings.

[spaz]

I've never heard of Matt Walsh or of his blog. I didn't read it. That said, I do believe it is a matter of choice. I've thought of suicide many times over the years. I even know how I would do it. I've just wanted the pain to end, but I've chosen not to... Why? Because I couldn't do that to my husband or children. They would find me and have to live with what I've done. That would be causing them the same pain that I felt. I just couldn't make that choice. So many times I just felt trapped. But I still made a choice. It was up to me. I could have chosen differently. I guess I feel it is a choice. One I am not willing to make no matter how miserable I have or will feel. I can't harm others.

[houseelf]

In this thread, there is a merging of the separate issues of suicide and compassionate euthanasia. Obviously, there is overlap, but they are separate issues. (I'm pro-compassionate euthanasia in terminal illness cases, FWIW). Where does Parkinsons compounded by bipolar/addictive personality on that continuum? I honestly don't know. Parkinsons promises a spectacularly painful, undignified descent that goes on for years.

It's a slippery slope and we need to offer compassion before any other objectives. I deeply dislike victim blaming but I agree with Ladybug that we need to be careful to not think of the elderly and infirm as burdens.