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  • #61
    As spouses of scientist and even potentially scientists yourselves, the objective thing to do is to look at actual statistics of existing examples and try to emulate those that are successful. The problem with statistics is that they get skewed in 100 different directions at political whim. I am not a proponent of gun control measures that are being proposed because they dont address the core issues they claim to. Both homicide and gun crime are down approximately 50% from their heyday in 1993, and are actually at 51 year lows according to the FBIs most recent publication in 2014. So when the media circus begins and we think these things are in crisis mode, naturally we panic. One of my football coaches once said that it doesnt matter if you run a 4-4:40 if youre running in the wrong direction from the ball. Thats partially what we have a case of here. Were focusing on rifles that cause a fraction of overall gun violence in the US. If politicians were really trying to make a difference, theyd look at handguns and the .22LR round, which kill more people than all other rounds, and its not close. But they wont do that because its much harder to demonize those things.

    In the UK, Ireland and New Zealand, firearms bans had statistically no impact on overall homicide rates. The gun control proponents are left looking to Australia (which touts a 40% reduction in homicides between 1991 and today). Their rates effectively went from 1.7 per 100k annually, to 1.03. So Australia was already at a very low rate. During that same time, the US more than doubled their gun ownership and saw a reduction of 50+% in their homicide rate. A drop from 9.7 per 100k to 4.1 per 100k. A drop of more than 4.5 per 100k, and drastically more than Australias decline. Especially when you consider that our population is 10x theirs. What this may tell us is that guns have less to do with murder rates than either side would like to claim, and potentially more to do with advancements in society. As we reduce poverty and increase technology, healthcare, food, etc.. people in general are getting more wealthy. For the first time in the history of mankind, less than 10% of the worlds population is in extreme poverty. Lacking for nothing leads fewer people to resort to crime, etc..

    What is evident from the UK, Ireland and other examples, is that firearms bans in and of themselves do nothing to change the inclinations of murderers. Take the gun, theyll find another implement.

    Hope we can continue to have a rational discussion and not just scream at each other in a panic.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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    • #62
      A great thing to tell people who are tired of seeing mass shootings in the news is to tell them not to "scream at each other in a panic." Really validates their opinions and worth as intellectual individuals fully separate from their spouses, and keeps the conversation flowing.

      Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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      • #63
        Take it however you like. We're all adults, and hopefully can have rational discussion like one.

        Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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        • #64
          Stirring the pot is hardly a rational discussion tactic...

          Let the CDC perform research, for crying out loud. And sadly, we can't even get that step accomplished. Forgive me if I seem slightly testy.

          No more easy access via online or gun show, no more lax laws for known persons of interest to obtain firearms. Let's start there.




          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Wife to Family Medicine attending, Mom to DS1 and DS2
          Professional Relocation Specialist &
          "The Official IMSN Enabler"

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          • #65
            By all means -- let's look at the stats. Which means we need to change our laws so we can actually study them to do so.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Thirteen View Post
              No more easy access via online or gun show, no more lax laws for known persons of interest to obtain firearms. Let's start there.
              So, you actually can't buy online without a background check. You can buy a gun online, but it has to be shipped to a gun store (some place with a federal firearms license), and they won't give it to you without a background check (and generally a pretty decent fee just for making the transaction).
              Allison - professor; wife to a urology attending; mom to baby girl E (11/13), baby boy C (2/16), and a spoiled cat; knitter and hoarder of yarn; photographer

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              • #67
                Originally posted by alotofyarn View Post
                So, you actually can't buy online without a background check. You can buy a gun online, but it has to be shipped to a gun store (some place with a federal firearms license), and they won't give it to you without a background check (and generally a pretty decent fee just for making the transaction).
                What about private sellers using the internet (e.g., Craigslist or something similar, though I don't know of Craigslist allows gun sales.)? I don't think all states require private sellers to use background checks.

                Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by rufflesanddots View Post
                  What about private sellers using the internet (e.g., Craigslist or something similar, though I don't know of Craigslist allows gun sales.)? I don't think all states require private sellers to use background checks.

                  Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
                  It would be illegal to send it through the mail. The only way you can send a gun in the mail without going through an FFL is to send it in for repair. The purchase transaction can be done online, but the gun has to be exchanged in person to get around the background check.
                  Allison - professor; wife to a urology attending; mom to baby girl E (11/13), baby boy C (2/16), and a spoiled cat; knitter and hoarder of yarn; photographer

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                  • #69
                    So the only part removed is the shipping? Basically, someone can use the internet to find a private seller and buy in person, thereby circumventing the background check requirement?

                    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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                    • #70
                      [MENTION=5155]Kudzoo[/MENTION], thank you for the statistics to back up what you're saying. I think that's important in getting rid of the research funding blocks the NRA currently supports. I also don't agree with the ban-all-guns opinion, but I am in favor of finding out what actually makes a difference in reducing gun violence and spending our money and effort on those things.
                      Laurie
                      My team: DH (anesthesiologist), DS (9), DD (8)

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rufflesanddots View Post
                        So the only part removed is the shipping? Basically, someone can use the internet to find a private seller and buy in person, thereby circumventing the background check requirement?

                        Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
                        I believe so. Not saying I think it should be legal though. And I think you'd have to be an idiot to sell a gun to someone you don't know without running a background check.
                        Allison - professor; wife to a urology attending; mom to baby girl E (11/13), baby boy C (2/16), and a spoiled cat; knitter and hoarder of yarn; photographer

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by alotofyarn View Post
                          I believe so. Not saying I think it should be legal though. And I think you'd have to be an idiot to sell a gun to someone you don't know without running a background check.
                          Agreed, but there are some real...idiots out there.

                          Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by rufflesanddots View Post
                            Agreed, but there are some real...idiots out there.

                            Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
                            Agreed
                            Allison - professor; wife to a urology attending; mom to baby girl E (11/13), baby boy C (2/16), and a spoiled cat; knitter and hoarder of yarn; photographer

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                            • #74
                              There are some misconceptions about what studies have and have not been performed. Despite the rhetoric, Obama commissioned a study that was in fact performed by the CDC regarding gun violence in 2013. You can read the study here:

                              http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd...-Violence.aspx

                              Among it's findings include the fact that guns are used defensively far more than they are in violent crimes or homicides. Additional findings include the paltry number of gun violence committed by long rifles. As I mentioned in a prior post, the vast majority are by handguns. This is why I stated that if guns were the problem (and I don't believe they are) politicians are barking up the wrong tree by pursuing long guns. This is essentially trying to cure a viral infection with antibiotics.

                              Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

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                              • #75
                                Scary looking black metal rifles are definitely easy to target, but the former assault weapons ban had restrictions on all weapons with greater than a 10 round magazine, I think. And it seems like a good chunk of the mass shootings of the past 10-15 years would have been made harder under those restrictions, cosmetic though some of the limitations were.
                                Alison

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