Orlando Shooting

[HouseofWool]

Orlando Shooting

Do we? Or do we just shout over the people who disagree to the point they don't engage anymore. I've noticed it.

[MENTION=1889]SoonerTexan[/MENTION] & [MENTION=4205]alotofyarn[/MENTION], you definitely have a point. I rarely engage in debates here because I don't have the time to pull all of the evidence together and post links. I totally see how some of our more outspoken members tend to be the most vocal.

I do miss the old days of the debates, and I would love to see multiple viewpoints equally represented.

[Sheherezade]

So the only part removed is the shipping? Basically, someone can use the internet to find a private seller and buy in person, thereby circumventing the background check requirement?

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I know someone who sells like this. Meets people in parking lots. He's a wealthy collector and jokes about the sketchy types and places he's had to go. What's horrible to me is its a hobby for him.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

As one of the conservative members, I generally just keep my mouth shut because I don't appreciate being spoken to as if I'm a moron or worse.

+1

[mommax3]

This. As one of the conservative members, I generally just keep my mouth shut because I don't appreciate being spoken to as if I'm a moron or worse. There are other groups run by some of our members in which I flat out don't participate for this exact reason.

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Yep.


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[Kudzoo]

This will be my last post on the matter.... I dont take charges of sexism lightly, given that Ive given up most ambitions of the last 10 years that I have myself to facilitate my wifes career. Im a most of the time stay at home dad. I cook, I clean and I do the best I can to raise kids that are both objective and think about others first. All the while trying to maintain some semblance of adulthood and masculinity at the same time. Simply being a man, or having an opinion, is not sexist. I think if we took some time, slowed down and remembered that people on the other side of the internet are also people, wed be a lot slower to jump to judgements and conclusions. The internet in many ways removes humanity from conversations. Where Im from and where I live now (rural idaho) gun violence is nearly non-existent and guns are pervasive. Its mostly because of culture. But Ive also lived in some of the most dangerous places in the country in Atlanta and Macon, GA. It has everything to do with the culture of violence. Take care all.

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[MAPPLEBUM]

Admittedly, I have a preconceived bias that leans toward "leave people alone". Being shouted down as sexist is a non-starter. Anyone can see the drastically declining membership of groups like the AMA and other medical lobbies because while academia may strongly lean left, there are a plethora of other opinions that are not being represented because they're consistently demagogued and shouted down. Best of luck folks.

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I'm interested in your perspective even though I likely disagree. You seem to have a lot of knowledge from a perspective very different from mine and my circle. It's often hard to decipher tone over these forums but I didn't necessarily think you were being condescending. Please don't let it deter you from involvement on these forums.

[alotofyarn]

This will be my last post on the matter.... I dont take charges of sexism lightly, given that Ive given up most ambitions of the last 10 years that I have myself to facilitate my wifes career. Im a most of the time stay at home dad. I cook, I clean and I do the best I can to raise kids that are both objective and think about others first. All the while trying to maintain some semblance of adulthood and masculinity at the same time. Simply being a man, or having an opinion, is not sexist. I think if we took some time, slowed down and remembered that people on the other side of the internet are also people, wed be a lot slower to jump to judgements and conclusions. The internet in many ways removes humanity from conversations. Where Im from and where I live now (rural idaho) gun violence is nearly non-existent and guns are pervasive. Its mostly because of culture. But Ive also lived in some of the most dangerous places in the country in Atlanta and Macon, GA. It has everything to do with the culture of violence. Take care all.

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I'm sorry that the conversation has taken this turn. It's nice to have someone else speak up from this side. I hope that you'll continue to post here, despite the responses on this thread.

[diggitydot]

We live in an incredibly rural, backwoods location. Actually, not all that far from BFE, Idaho. Weapons are a normal part of life here. You're more likely to need a gun here to scare off an animal than to protect your property from someone bent on fucking it up. We take them with us when we camp/hike/hunt (obvs), and have a very low homicide rate with guns (suicide rate with guns isn't so hot, though). We also don't have a lot of people, either, so that skews that data point compared to more populated areas.

It's entirely possible to tighten regulations on guns and ownership while still enabling people to use them. No, not everyone can or should own them. A lot of people who think they're "responsible owners" actually are anything but. I know someone who has loaded and unloaded weapons in every single corner of every room in their house. They see themselves as responsible owners even though they have loaded, unsecured weapons within easy reach of their TODDLERS.

There isn't a single solution to complex problems. It's going to take a multi-pronged approach to fix the problems of too easy access to weapons designed for killing. Where they intersect with extremism, hate, and an entitlement to kill, there will always be problems. Finding solutions to prevent those intersections is the key. If that means we look at how other countries have done this, glean lessons from what did or didn't work, and apply it here, cool. "But we're not Australia/UK/Israel/Switzerland/wherever," is a bullshit excuse. Try SOMETHING. Sitting around with our thumbs up our asses not doing a goddamn thing because the NRA says so isn't OK.

[Kudzoo]

As a firearms owner (who sees mountain lions, coyotes, wolves, etc.. more than criminals) I would say that the gun shows of the 80's that are used in discussions of loopholes are mostly a thing of the past. Most vendors at shows are licensed dealers and thus background checks are in fact completed for most firearms transactions. You will never be able to force a b/g check for those who find each other online. It's just not feasible. Either they're owners of Bostons Gun Bible and prefer to be off grid, or they're criminals and aren't looking to acquire a firearm in a traceable manner. There's just not much you can do about that. From a firearms supporter, it would be nice for private sellers to have access to a BCI check. Most people I know draw up contracts and take photocopies of permits & DL's etc. to mitigate themselves from liability. IMO criminal activity is criminal activity, and it will be hard to curb that. But where we can have the most impact is with firearms safety in our homes. I don't support taking from people to fund my ideas, but I would fully support the govt. buying small safes in bulk and providing them at cost in exchange for tax dollars. I.e. a tax credit or deduction of $10 or however much they would cost to produce. Additionally, public safety courses should be accessible as well. We have more than enough "public safety officers" already on the public dime that can teach courses.

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[OrionGrad]

I don't support taking from people to fund my ideas, but I would fully support the govt. buying small safes in bulk and providing them at cost in exchange for tax dollars. I.e. a tax credit or deduction of $10 or however much they would cost to produce.

I really like this idea.

[diggitydot]

I think if we hold people accountable for how their weapons are secured and press charges when stolen weapons are used in a crime, people would very quickly get a lot better about securing their firearms. Stolen weapons are a huge issue and this could go a decent way towards cutting off that supply pipeline for people who can't pass background checks and purchase from a legit dealer.

[rufflesanddots]

I really like this idea.

I do also, though will people really use these safes? Like [MENTION=1242]diggitydot[/MENTION] pointed out above, people who truly believe they're responsible do really, really stupid stuff. Public safety courses are also a fine idea, but can we actually make them required and not merely offered? I have to renew my driver's license every X years... Why not renew my gun license every year or whatever and give my MD the capacity to notify the local sheriff's office that I'm not currently fit to own a gun (e.g., like they can notify the DMV not to let me drive for 6 months if I were to have a seizure)? Sure, some of that is inconvenient but let's remember how serious it is to have a gun. The idea of making it easier/more affordable to safely store a gun is a good one, but I think people should be beat over the head with how to safely store their guns and operate them, even if it's a bit burdensome.

[alotofyarn]

I have to renew my driver's license every X years... Why not renew my gun license every year or whatever and give my MD the capacity to notify the local sheriff's office that I'm not currently fit to own a gun (e.g., like they can notify the DMV not to let me drive for 6 months if I were to have a seizure)? Sure, some of that is inconvenient but let's remember how serious it is to have a gun. The idea of making it easier/more affordable to safely store a gun is a good one, but I think people should be beat over the head with how to safely store their guns and operate them, even if it's a bit burdensome.

I'm all for this.

[HouseofWool]

I truly believe that every transfer of ownership should be subject to a background check.

If it a private sale, a gun shop can charge a fee to do the check.

The corollary is that all guns must be registered. Then if it is used in the commission of a crime, the registered owner can be held responsible.

[Thirteen]

I truly believe that every transfer of ownership should be subject to a background check.

If it a private sale, a gun shop can charge a fee to do the check.

The corollary is that all guns must be registered. Then if it is used in the commission of a crime, the registered owner can be held responsible.

I like this.


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