female chauvinist pigs

[DCJenn]

Well, I know now how to give my grandmother that fatal heart attack. Just send her the directions for the knit uterus. But, I digress...

I think it gets back to what Kellly said originally, we get all hung up on the labels and forget that we're talking about real live people, here. (I also do this with Republicans...)

Seriously though, how do we raise girls to respect themselves and each other? and to teach boys that boobies and butts are only one (or three to be accurate) little tiny part of what girls are all about. I showed Rick those Bratz dolls while we were in California and he was appalled. and he's the liberal of the two of us.

jenn

[Auspicious]

Seriously though, how do we raise girls to respect themselves and each other? and to teach boys that boobies and butts are only one (or three to be accurate) little tiny part of what girls are all about.

In my feel-free-to-ignore-it opinion,

--modeling the behavior they wish to see in their kids
--those ten thousand little asides that parents give in the course of daily life that subtly shape kids' attitudes ("Tara Reid may look like she's having fun now, but believe me she's going to look like a used up bar rag by the time she's forty. I've seen it happen." Um, or something like that.)
--the long talks. I would always have these with my Mom in the car when I was a pre-teen and teen. What else did we have to do? I'm bored, we start talking, I ask questions ("Why does Aunt Bonnie stay with Uncle Clark when he's so mean?"), she tells me the way the world works.

Good luck, but honestly, when I worry about the culture falling apart, it's not all you guys' kids I worry about, it's all the parents who aren't asking themselves these questions.

My first thought at that particular VS campaign was wow, this looks like 1950's porn.

Just think, in 30 years we'll get to see pubic hair in the ads!

[mommax3]

I don't even GET Victoria's Secret any more. Seriously, does she even have any secrets left? I like lingerie as well as the next gal, but my boobies don't stay in the boobie area of nighties anymore, without some serious help, and nothing is more depressing then putting one of those numbers on, watching the two decorated areas rest flat against my chest, and yet again face the realization that things aren't what (or where) they used to be! Would it spoil the effect to wear an underwire with one of those numbers? I know, I know.....WAY TMI! They used to have some nice-but-naughty stuff there, you know what I mean, (stuff that hangs from the shoulders I might add) but now it is all naughty looking.....nothin' wrong with that, I guess, but why don't they just merge with Frederick's and be done with it?

Sally

I haven't shopped at VS since I got properly measured for a bra. They always had me at a 36 C. . Turns out I am a 34DD and VS has jack for the (saggy baggy)full boobed.

Great solution for big saggy boobs...the demi cup bra. If you have a big cup size, the straps are wider and so is the band. Spreads the weight out better too.

[Rapunzel]

Sally, I so understand where you're coming from.


Jennifer

(Good grief! I have, yet again, nothing of substance to contribute! Apathy rules! ).

I know Victoria's Secret -- she's a slut! Nah, I guess her secret that she likes to be tied up has been spilled somewhere in the greater DC area.

I've been following this tread all day but every time I try to respond, something crazy happens. I feel very behind. *sigh*

("Tara Reid may look like she's having fun now, but believe me she's going to look like a used up bar rag by the time she's forty. I've seen it happen." Um, or something like that.)

That cracked me up. And so true, but I don't know if I could say it as colorfully. I'm remembering that for Bryn.

The knitting pattern for the uterus is fantastic. No, that probably is not what my grandmother was knitting (or crocheting). There are stich-n-bitch groups around here and I do agree that those sorts of things are coming back into vogue, but I feel that there is still some stigma, I guess. I've been particularly aware of it around some of DH's female co-residents....but I'm barking up the wrong tree if I expect them to have a clue.

I had first heard of this book when I read:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2126570/entry/2126575/
(note: I have read only the Tuesday entry and not the Salon article).

I agree, Kelly, that there is room for healthy sexuality and it shouldn't be denied but that a lot of what her book appears to deal with is not that healthy or positive (the MTV and BET, etc). I don't think we should go back to a 1950s (or earlier) mindset where it seemed that woman couldn't want or enjoy sex. But the way things are today -- hyper-sexualized as someone said -- doesn't seem all that liberated and free. I can't come up with a quick summary of female sexuality, but my feeling is that some (a lot?) of what is displayed is women conforming to men's fantasies, especially as depicted by the media. As Angie said, it seems blatantly male. (ok, and not to bash men, they aren't bunch of chauvinist a**holes, either but can't women have their own brand?).

It doesn't do much for equality. Same as specific gender roles or knocking people for traditional female roles (knitting...or not). I think that more conversations about this -- for men and women -- would be a great thing.

And for a slight hijack....this is one of the things that irritated me about the "Many Women at Elite Colleges Set Career Path to Motherhood " article. Aside from the sub-par survey method....another criticism was that the NY Times ran a similar article over 20 some years ago. Well, I think this topic is still on people's minds, still an internal debate for people and certainly a societal one and valid to report on. But, why not ask any of those men from elite colleges what their future plans were regarding family and career? That would have been fresh and interesting. Would as many people be getting their undies in a wad by the freshmen men's responses? And it's not that I think men are disinterested, though they might be at that stage in their life, but rather that they aren't really brought into the discussion in that light.

Mmmkay...so that doesn't really relate to the question at hand but I kept thinking about it as I was reading this today.

[spotty_dog]

Hell just froze over because I COMPLETELY agree with this, Alison.

I have more in common with you than I thought!!!

LOL. I've been tryin' to tell you!

Julie, as usual I misspoke. When I put "feminism" in quotes I meant primarily the retaliatory, "redefine female roles by rejecting everything effeminate" crowd. I've always considered myself feminist in terms of believing that the equality of the genders is a bedrock of society!

I dislike Debbie Stoller's book "Stitch 'n' Bitch" from a knitter's perspective, but her whole approach of bringing feminism back full-circle by embracing and re-valuing traditional female roles makes a heckuva lot of sense to me! Thing is, young women are embracing this stuff because it's edgy. It's "hip" to be domestic (http://www.livejournal.com/community/hip_domestics). But older women are hesitating to knit in the workplace because anything that makes them seem more feminine causes them to lose their edge professionally. That's not cool.

Jenn, if you like the knitted womb, you'll love the knitted hoo-hoo: http://www.dangliebits.com/hoohoo.html

[PrincessFiona]

Holy Balls...Hey...it looks like a hair scrunchy.

I had no..idea that this kind of stuff existed...wow.

My grandma might chuckle uncomfortably at the thought of a knitted uterus but I can't imagine what she would say about that.

[PrincessFiona]

Here's my question..exactly why would someone want a knitted uterus or...well, the other...I mean...what exactly do you DO with those things?

[Auspicious]

Here's my question..exactly why would someone want a knitted uterus or...well, the other...I mean...what exactly do you DO with those things?

Prop it up on your piano, I guess. The hoo-hoo says
Pin on and where proudly. Will anyone know what it exactly is? I doubt it...
Talk about shocking your grandma!

[spotty_dog]

Here's my question..exactly why would someone want a knitted uterus or...well, the other...I mean...what exactly do you DO with those things?

I know of someone who knit the uterus for a MTF transgendered person, because she didn't have one of her own.

If you don't mind downloading a PDF, check out the first pattern in the mini-magazine linked from this page: http://knitty.com/ISSUEfall04/PATTsurpriseintro.html

I think a lot of it is shock value (Why yes, those ARE boobies on my scarf!) But some of it is, again, retaliating against a former norm. Feminine anatomy used to be reviled (http://www.thewvsr.com/lysol.htm); swinging the pendulum all the way to displaying it proudly on one's lapel is strangely...understandable, I guess.

I was hoping someone would link to the knitted vagina

I love it! That's a great scarf and it's not obviously breasts. Now if there was an implant version....

I really like the Heart Scarf, too. Ok, it's time for me to pick up the knitting needles and give this another go. Alison, I still have the made with love by a liberal link you put up a while ago. As soon as I can find the box with the squares I knitted for an long-neglected baby blanket, I'm going to donate them. Time to start anew!