Planning a career with children in mind

[Sheherezade]

Today, I met a neighbor who writes at home for our local paper. She recently had a baby and is working from home part-time. I know things always look better from the other side of the fence, but I can't help but be envious of her great set up. She seems very happy and her life is so balanced. She got me thinking about the superwoman myth (having it all) and how I wish my expectations in life had been lower from the start. I honestly don't know what I was thinking when I planned out "what I would be when I grow up". I guess I thought I should do what I loved - family-friendliness be damned. Well --look where it has gotten me.

After 7 years out of research, I am working at developing my own freelance writing business with a specialty in science writing. Clearly, it will be an uphill battle, but I am making the effort. I believe in being around for my kids and I wouldn't change the last 7 years for anything. Still, whenever I meet women in "family friendly" careers - teachers, some writers, nurses - it gets me thinking about why I didn't plan ahead for my time as a mother. I had so many advantages - great college and grad school. I feel like I wasted that time preparing for a career in science research only to find that it was incompatible with raising children - at least with a physician spouse. I try to think about it positively. I did great research, published and made a contribution. I did everything on scholarships and grants; I don't owe anybody anything. I loved every minute of that time. Still-where did it get me? Now, I could take a family-friendly science research job, but in every case I would be working for someone else answering the questions they pose instead of directing my own research. I would have less academic input than I had when I was in graduate school. I suppose my PhD and experience should count for something --it's a good credential for my current writing plans. That it.

Sometimes the whole situation get me down. I regret having spent my time and effort to earn a PhD and get on a track that wasn't compatible with kids when I could have used that effort to get on track in teaching or something else. Obviously, I did this to myself - I don't blame anyone. I just wish I'd thought ahead. Does anyone else ever feel this way?

[DCJenn]

Yep-

I had a great time doing my various jobs in the disabilities field. But, combine the hours (essentially 24 hour on-call) with a 1 year old and there's no way I could do it. I know several people who reached a certain level in the field and had their kids in day care. I reached the absolute pinnacle and I can't go back. There's no way that I could do what I did.

I miss it and I'm trying to figure out a way to keep a toe in the waters but as yet, it appears my only real options are direct care and I have diapers at home to change- I wouldn't do it at work, too. That and there's not an agency in the country that would hire me to do direct care. (I was a Federal Surveyor, one of 20 in the country. That's a wee bit intimidating to, well, everyone else in the industry) I don't want to do administration- Nikolai is too little for the amount of dedication that is required. (or more accurately, that I'd put in just because) - and the mid level positons hold no appeal.

I'm right there with ya. That's why I'm teaching Stroller Strides classes. At least I get to get in shape and have adult conversations!

Jenn

[PrincessFiona]

Angie...I have thought the same thing many times....but...that leads to a bigger question: What do we teach our daughters? Amanda recently told me that she wanted to have 12 kids (we had just watched cheaper by the dozen ) AND she wants to be a veterinarian AND a writer AND an elementary school teacher. I told her that she could be whatever she wanted, but that when she had children she would have to make hard choices.
"Like what, Mommy?"

"Children require a lot of time and love and attention and it isn't really possible to do all of those careers and have 12 children"

"What would happen to my children when I'm working, mommy?"

"They could go to daycare or kidstop"

long pause

"I think I'll just be a stay at home mom then"

hmmmm I wondered if I shouldn't have said anything. I certainly said it in a very positive upbeat way and I tried to let her know that she could become what she wanted...but my own mom never really was upfront with me about the challenges for me professionally. I wish I had thought it through better.

Of course, that begs an even larger question: should women with children have 'high-powered jobs'. Should women who want to have children be looking at only nursing, education etc. Is that the message we want to send our girls? I don't know, but...I won't even touch it :!

kris

[DCJenn]

Yeah, you see how she is? Asking these questions and then leaving for vacation. Nope, I'm not rising to her bait....I'll wait a week until she gets back, that's what I'll do!!!

Jenn

[PrincessFiona]

Bummer...I was hoping to get home and be able to have some entertaining reading to catch up on!

kris

[Sheherezade]

I know, I know. The bigger questions are the ones that kill me. My feeling is that there is a problem with our entire society. Why should anyone have to give up such a large portion of their life to pursue their job? The main reason I can't pursue research in the time my children are in school is because I wouldn't be competitive -- not because I couldn't do the work. Long gone are the days when research scientists took the summers off to hang out at Woods Hole, combining sailing with science. Now, dedication is measured in the hours you deliver and the speed with which you make discoveries. Why does it have to be that way? (We see this all the time in medicine, too. ) I wish we had a society that accepted less work as valuable work. As it is, it seems that if you work fewer hours you are not serious. I have played around with working to change this politically-- but I don't know how. I think that would be a great gift to my daughter - and son. Why do we have to be driven to be considered successful? Capitalism? I don't know. Clearly, this is a conversation that needs a jug of wine.

I have heard my kids playing pretend games - and debating who should take care of their "kids" while the other works. At least they both see opportunity; too bad they still have a problem. Usually, they end up taking turns working. Sadly, it isn't so easy to take turns having a career in life. You start, you keep going. If you stop, it isn't easy to get back on track. Certainly if both parents stopped and started the whole family would suffer financially. Oy vey. I do think things are moving in the right direction. Work has become more flexible. Employers are more sensitive to family issues. Still, there is a long way to go.

Edit: She can't leave yet!!!! That's Saturday!!

[pstone]

Okay, my "happen to have caught me in a good mood" comment is that none of it is wasted. You are who you are in part because of your education and background. I bet if you try to take some note of how your brain works, of how you see the world, of how you raise your kids that you will see all of your education comming through.

Sure society makes us "think" that if you are not making money with what you have that you are wasting it!...I say BAH!

Think of yourself as a Renaissance woman. I am not saying you can't still freelance write etc...but I am trying to realize that education is never wasted, even if you never make a dime with it. You have it, they can't take it away and it makes you who you are.

Hmm...

[Sheherezade]

Thanks for the kind words, Peter. I'm lucky I caught one of your good moods. I usually see it that way. Sometimes, though .... I feel like the kid who got a PhD in Philosophy or Art History. Great fun to talk with, but what kind of job are you going to get with that? (I know, I know.....you teach!) I don't regret my choices. I just feel foolish when I realize how far along I could be if I had started on a different track. I guess I need to get past that feeling that life is a race and instead enjoy the journey. (I got that one from Hallmark. )

[HeartRN]

Re: Planning a career with children in mind

Still, whenever I meet women in "family friendly" careers - teachers, some writers, nurses - it gets me thinking about why I didn't plan ahead for my time as a mother.

I just had to jump in here and give my .02....a nursing career is not necessarily family friendly, IMHO. Although you can work as many or as few hours as you'd like, to truly make a career out of it could be very hard on a family, especially "high powered" nursing positions. Even though I haven't pursued a Master's or higher in nursing, I still think working full time as a nurse sucks for a family in many respects. I do three 12 hour shifts as a bedside ICU nurse, and by the time the day is over, it's been 14 hours that my child is in daycare. I know this is my choice, but it's what needs to be done right now....I will say, that the beauty of nursing is the flexibility when one's family lives like bohemians--you can always find a job. This isn't always the case with other careers, that's for sure.

Kris said: Of course, that begs an even larger question: should women with children have 'high-powered jobs'. Should women who want to have children be looking at only nursing, education etc. Is that the message we want to send our girls?

Sorry--I must just be cranky, so accept my apologies in advance! This just made me cringe....and I know it wasn't intended to be offensive. Nursing jobs, on the contrary, can be high-powered jobs, particularly upper management/administrator positions (although this would be a nightmare if you ask me) . I also want to dispell the myth that the bedside nurse is powerless and simply expected to follow through on doctor's orders. In truth, I am an integral part of the ICU team. Docs reguarly ask me for my opinion, and they trust my judgment to make critical decisions because most of the time, THEY AREN'T THERE! Nurses are. So whether or not the career of a nurse is "high-powered" is really a matter of opinion...unfortunately, the stigma that the doc is the "high-powered" position and the nurse is the handmaiden will probably continue to exist. :!

[DCJenn]

It's the same with social services Marla. I was about as "high-powered" as one could get- it just that typically unless it's Sean Penn or Cuba Gooding Jr. playing the 'Tard Card in the movies, people with MR/DD are invisible. Therefore the fact that I had a 2 million dollar budget, 6 houses, 100 staff and 36 people who counted on all of the above to stay happy and healthy- well, now really no one cared. Unless we wanted to open a new home in their neighborhood, then everyone cared because "those people" might lower property values.

UGH- It's the nurses, social workers and teachers who bust our asses FOR other people and still get shat upon. (I broke 30k a year when I was 31 years old with a Master's degree)

Jenn

[Sheherezade]

Oh my!!! I hope I didn't offend either of you.

My comment about "family friendliness" was just that; I think the flexibility provided in nursing ( and the school -friendly hours in teaching) work better in caring for children. But what do I know? Clearly, I am only guessing. I do know many nurse-mothers that have worked out a schedule with their spouses around shifts so that a parent is always home. Still, even with that flexibility they always seem to get stuck with shifts they didn't plan. The teachers I know end up taking work home to complete after the kids are in bed. Not easy ... but at least they professions offer some accomodations.

I think nursing and teaching are more family friendly because they have been traditionally female. Again, just guessing. Sadly, I think that is also why they don't get the respect they deserve. (i.e. handmaid.....)I would say the same for social services, but I don't lump that in as a family friendly profession -- just a ridiculously difficult and undervalued one. (And I agree with you Jenn that it has to do with the invisibility of the people social services assists.) In the end, I think all professions get unfriendly as you climb the ladder of success. I know high powered teachers and nurses that work their **ses off. So ---no offense intended. What I don't get is why high powered has to equal overworked. Can't you be dedicated in mind but not in time? Maybe not.

I'm still annoyed with the world that schedule flexibility and on/off ramps built into a profession make it appear less challenging. I also think that it is sad that jobs that used to work with motherhood are disappearing as they become more "high-powered". Bleh.

Edit to add: I'm not sure that I'm only talking about $$ in this equation. I had lots of respect when I obsessed and slept in my lab doing experiments....but I only made 20 K. As a prof, I probably would have topped out at 60K. Still, I think people would have seen my work as valuable. I think the respect came from my "devotion" (in hours) to science. Is this because we value the "hard worker" and parenting isn't seen as work? More to think about....

[HeartRN]

No offense taken....I was, shall we say, a little....sensitive

[DCJenn]

None taken here, either.

The problem is that really, there aren't ANY particularly family friendly careers- because career defined (by the majority of the world) means FT work.

And parenthood is a career in and of itself. It just has no pay and no pension.

This is one of those damned if, you do damned if you don't realities that all American parents face. We don't have subsidized childcare, many families cannot make do on one salary, people ARE allowed to want to and to like to work, people ARE allowed to prefer to stay home to raise their kids.

The 'sacrifice' comes when whatever choice you make for your life isn't really a choice. Lots of us make decisions that are partially right and feel mostly good. Some of us make decisions and then find out that they were wrong. or mostly wrong. I think that's pretty darned ok, too. There's no guarantee that we'll always love what we do for a living.

Jenn

[houseelf]

I always love hearing other people's take on all of this because I've struggled so much with this topic (and I have what some may call a "power" degree).

Yet, in my lowly position as law clerk to a trial court judge, I am stuck. For the record, I'm infinitely better off than the single mom stocking shelves for Sprawl-Mart.

There are 13 judges in my courthouse and half of their clerks are women in their thirties who have left private or corporate practice to be with their kids. Once upon a time, I worked for the Army JAG, another clerk worked five years in construction law, another worked in employment law, and one was well on her way to partnership in a prestigious family law firm.

Yet here we all are in what is considered a traditional first job out of law school making the monetary equivalent of school teachers with Masters degrees make. It makes for interesting office lunches: half of us sharing stories about mucous plugs and sore nipples and the other half are young guns in their first job chomping at the bit to move on to something better and sexier.

One of my colleagues put it simply- she could no longer put her child in daycare doped up on tylenol so that she could make a court appearance on behalf of a meth user who has outstanding warrants in three different counties. I understand her. The way childcare and schools are set up in this country, working parents are almost doomed to fail.

Let's just say that my very expensive law degree is bringing me neither professional fulfillment (although I do have a very good gig) or a serious return on my financial investment. Sure, a big part of this is because I married an OCD surgeon who will stop at nothing to be the best in his field, but I wonder how much I would have really pushed myself at the expense of my kids if circumstances were different.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent. From my positon, I fantasize about "family friendly" (HA!) profession of teaching and wonder why I thought I had to go this route.

Kelly

[pstone]

why is raising kids not considered a career?