Planning a career with children in mind

[DCJenn]

That's the million dollar question now, isn't it? Why doesn't it count toward Social Security benefits?

Jenn

[pstone]

well if it is two careers for 20 years that totals 40 years of work....retirement?

[Sheherezade]

My issue is that now the kids *are* out from underfoot -- for 6 hours of the day. That means I could work from 8:30 - 2:30 minus travel time. I just don't now what kind of "career" accomodates that schedule. At least at this time, I don't want to have them in care after school on a regular basis. I want to be around for them. Still --I'm seeing my career ambitions limited to jobs at Starbucks or the Gap. (Actually, what's funny is that even the retail outlets advertising for employment have filled the school hours. It's the afterschool and weekend slots that are understaffed.) Basically, I see work at home and my own small business as the best ways to work around children's school hours.

I think this debate is different for medical spouses because after training is over, you really do have more than enough income from one person to live a decent life. So, my work is for me. I can afford to be around for the kids. I want to do that. I just can't put my arms around going to the gym, doing housework, remodelling, volunteering, and shopping in my 6 hours a day. I do a lot of volunteer work - that feels good, but it doesn't count as a "career" any more than parenting. My career ambitions are more about personal fufillment and future employment in the event of divorce or the death of my spouse than actual need. That makes the argument about working different. I try hard to divorce myself from what society sees as "success"; obviously I am not always successful. Still, I wish there was more middle ground offered in our world for everyone.

[pstone]

I don't have answers just stupid questions.

I plan on doing something, just waiting for you all to figure it out and tell me.

[Sheherezade]

I agree, Annie. The problem is "growing" without leaving the kids behind. It is all to easy to get caught up in work - at least for me. (That's one of the similarities between DH and moi. ) So ... how do you take on a challenge but limit it based on your children's needs? Volunteering can grow in effort and time. If you find a way to make a difference, you can be one of those fabled "points of light". Still, most of the people who get to the higher levels in the volunteer world also turn their work into a full time (or more) situation. Some end up in politics. I can't see that as family friendly. So ... again the issue is "success" vs. balance. And Peter....you have to come up with some ideas, too!!!! Don't count on us figuring it out. On a positive note, I heard recently that the number of women entrepeneurs has grown at 3x the rate of men in the last 10 years. Most of these new businesses are internet or home based and parent-owned. I think parents are trying to define success in their own terms. Wahoo!

[Vishenka69]

Angie,

I guess I was naive to think that anything outside of corporate world and medicine can be combined with having kids (and being there for them most of the time). My original grand plan was to go back to school for a PhD and start having kids as soon as DH becomes an attending. Am I kidding myself that this will be better than staying in the corporate world?

[Rapunzel]

why is raising kids not considered a career?

Well, see, I think this is what sets me out like a sore thumb in most social situations: I do consider raising my kids a career. In fact, that is why I call myself a "full-time mother". The term "stay-at-home mom/dad" has a great deal of negative connotations and incorrect assumptions for many in our society who think I just sit around and eat bonbons and watch soap operas all day. So, I treat my work like the long-term career it is and I call myself a "full-time mother" because that is what I am.

My daughters have already expressed numerous careers they would like to try when they grow up. Everytime I tell them their ideas sound great and they would be very good at whatever they chose to do. I have encountered my six year olds starting to say, "Oh, and I want to be a mommy and have x number of children, too." And, like Kris, I tell them that it means they will have some important choices to make when they get older. As they get older we will go more in-depth into their career options including motherhood.

When my current career as a full-time mom has run out of steam in about 18 years or so (assuming I don't have any more kids) I have a number of options before me with the two biggest choices being: 1)Go back to school and begin a new career outside of family work or 2)Become a full-time grandmother. Right now I must admit the second choice is becoming more and more attractive to me. I have four daughters. I fully expect most of them to have children someday. And, I know that I have wished so many times that my working mother could devote more time to helping me through the difficulties of pregnancy and having a new baby. She is actually quiting her current career in a month to specifically become a full-time grandmother and I applaud her. I hope to follow in her footsteps one day and help make my children's and grandchildren's lives even more improved by being able to serve them.

I guess in many ways I see that as just a natural extension of my current career. I realize that being a full-time grandmother isn't an option open to everyone - particularly in this day and age when grandparents are having progressively less and less grandchildren to help their own children with as families grow smaller. But, I'm actually looking forward to having my grandchildren come stay for entire seasons with me and my husband. I look forward to helping homeschool any of my grandchildren that might be homeschooled and teaching all of them various things. I look forward to being in a position to be of help to my daughters in childbirth someday. I think next to motherhood grandmotherhood is quickly becoming a nonviable career-option in the eyes of most in our society.

Jennifer

[Rapunzel]

Thanks, Annie. I need all of the kind words I can get!!!

I thought it was an appropriate sig considering I now have a herd of children!

Jennifer

[PrincessFiona]

No offense taken....I was, shall we say, a little....sensitive

I didn't mean offense either...nursing and teaching are just traditionally jobs that women have had and they seem to be more accomodating than other fields that are not traditionally female dominated. My mom is a nurse...and is now a nurse practitioner. I love nurses. Sorry if I offended.

kris

[quote="goofy"] Still --I'm seeing my career ambitions limited to jobs at Starbucks or the Gap. /quote]

Not an entirely bad gig . You get 1# of free coffee / week at Starbucks, and bennies at 20 hours (including stock buying). Gap has a killer discount ... not an entirely bad idea for peeps w/kids.

Granted, not on your original carreer path ....

[pstone]

Jennifer,

I love you!

Full-time Grandfather it is!

[spotty_dog]

The end of med school looms and with it the end of me having to work at the university in a dead end job. I am starting to look toward the future and decide what my major goals will be.

DH and I believe that we want a parent at home with our kids, especially during the early months. I have often seen myself in the role of a homemaker and mother. I think I could do an excellent job in that vocation, and that it would use my varied skills and strengths.

However, caring for a home is not necessarily a full time job in this age of time saving technology, and children become less dependent over time. I also feel called to give back to society in some more broad reaching way in addition to raising excellent citizens.

Time and again I come back to wanting to teach elementary school. I just read an amazing book called "There Are No Shortcuts" by Rafe Esquith, a fifth and sixth grade teacher and a former National Teacher of the Year or some such. I was already nearly convinced of my career path but the inspirational story of that teacher confirmed two things for me: the public school system needs and deserves teachers who really want to teach and who are fairly bright and committed as I would be; but also that teaching is far from being an 8 to 3 job with summers off.

I'm not just talking about grading papers on my own time either. Two of the things that make Rafe Esquith a successful teacher, with his inner-city students getting top grades on standardized tests and going to excellent colleges, are his commitment to spending every hour of every day with his students (he keeps school in session from 6:30 am to 5 pm, including right through vacations and holidays and part of the weekend, and the kids voluntarily attend!) and his commitment to showing them the world outside the school by taking them on field trips across the country.

I think that excellent teachers have that kind of devotion to their students. I think that even plain old good ones will expect to spend a LOT of their daylight hours and vacations with their students.

So I'm starting to fear that teaching is not such a family friendly occupation either. I've got some talking to do with my DH. I still want to be a teacher, but I think I will postpone pursuing that career goal until my kids are starting to be self sufficient. :|

[Sheherezade]

Exactly, Alison! That's the kind of thinking that always gets me stumped on this whole "balanced life" thing. I know lots of wonderful teachers. Most of them aren't teaching now that they have younger children. They know that being a great teacher requires time far beyond school hours. I also thought that teaching would be a good fit for me. I have a strong science background. I'm great with kids. I've taught science enrichment in the classrooms at all my children's schools so far. But full time? I don't think that would work yet. (At least, not without childcare.) If I had to work - for the income - then teaching would be a great position.

So it goes with many professions. If you are giving it all you've got, then ...well .... you are giving it all you've got! Nothing or little is left for your home life. So does balanced = mediocre? Ugh. I don't want to do a mediocre job, but I do want to be balanced. I suppose securing additional education and working in "half" jobs - like classroom enrichment - until my children are older is the best route. With that plan, though, I worry about age discrimination on the other end. I worked before I had kids. Maybe I should have had them at 22 so I could return to work at 40. As it is, I will be easing back into work through out my 40s with full power available around 50. That seems old to be starting out. Still, if you'd told me to have my kids at 22 -- . I was married, but both our families thought that was crazy enough!!

[houseelf]

I often joke that "mediocrity is my mantra". Perhaps excellence in either realm means that there are no other possibilities.

How is THAT for a downer thought?

Kelly

[Rapunzel]

However, caring for a home is not necessarily a full time job in this age of time saving technology, and children become less dependent over time. I also feel called to give back to society in some more broad reaching way in addition to raising excellent citizens.

Ummmm, actually I think that the first part of this statement is wildly incorrect. I spend over 8 hours everyday parenting and taking care of my home and life in general. Actually, it's more like 12 hours/day. That more than qualifies my work as a full-time job.

I think that the best way to "give back to society" is by raising the future members of that society. Civilization would crumble within a generation or two without those who work to raise future generations. I can't think of anything I could do that would have more far-reaching implications on the future of humanity than raising my children to be wonderful human beings and have them, in turn, teach their children what I have taught them. That's a legacy I would only be lucky to get as an architect or lawyer. And, even then, buildings eventually fall down and history forgets most. So, the biggest accomplishment I will ever make is raising my little human beings. And, I say that last statement with pride - not feeling like it is a compromise or somehow "cheats" my talents and abilities. Great motherhood tests your talents, strengths, and knowledge and allows you to grow beyond what you expected of yourself.

Maybe I just have this opinion because I think that motherhood is more than just feeding your kids or making sure they are clothed. I also go above and beyond the norm for our present culture by choosing to teach my own children rather than entrusting them to the care of strangers 35+ hours/week having faith that those strangers will teach them what they need to know - in the face of the fact that many, if not most, of children in these situations do NOT learn what they need to know (which is obvious if we look at the wonderful American education system and its results). The fact is that the failure rate for entrusting our children's primary parenting to others is astronomical. What is a "failure"? Children who end up in prison and/or with criminal records, children who cannot read or speak correctly, children who cannot form functional relationships (witness our divorce rate in this society). That's a failure unacceptable in my eyes.

Perhaps the problem is the way our popular culture has begun to define "parenthood". Parenthood seems to be, increasingly, just watching after your kids for a few months after birth and then handing them over to someone else to raise. Parenthood is, indirectly, equated with the job daycare workers provide. This modern definition of parenthood drastically devalues children by assuming children can "pick up" what they need to know from those who do not love them unconditionally and must split their attention between dozens of other children with the same needs. I shudder when I think of what parenthood is becoming in our society at-large. We need to move away from this increasing lazy definition of parenthood or else we're going to reap what we sow in future generations. Societies CAN crumble - it happens all the time history has shown us. And, not adequately raising future generations by respecting the institutions of parenthood or the importance of childhood is one of the big ways in which a society can fail.

Jennifer