College graduation and earning a living

[HouseofWool]

Both my sister and I have moved home after we finished school, with our own families in tow.

My sister, her hubby and their then newborn son moved in with my parents while my BIL did his 1 year clerkship for pharmacy school. My sister could not afford daycare on the income she had. Sis and BIL then bought and gutted a home and continued to live with my parents during the remodel.

DH and I spent 3 months with my parents when our son was ~15 mos. We were moving back from NYC and it was just before DH started med school.

In both cases, my parents (while probably resenting the invasion of their home) were thrilled that they got to know their 2 oldest grandkids in such an intimate manner.

[Vishenka69]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

There was a huge article in the NYTimes about this phenomenon a while back. I know a number of people who do (did) it in NY because that's the only alternative to having numerous roommates. BIL still lives at home and he's 25 and making a good living. The official story is that he's saving to buy his own place, but I think he's just plain cheap and lazy.

But I agree with you, that unless still in school (grad or whatever), it's time to face responsibility and the real world and get your own place.

[Sheherezade]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

When I see it happen in this neck of the woods, I often think it is because the new grad can not make the type of money they need to afford the lifestyle they desire. They'd be in a crummy apartment with cinderblock bookshelves driving a Ford Escort to work....and that's not worth the status gained from being "on your own". No Pottery Barn apartments for internship pay.

Reason number two: Lots of grads around here are looking for very specialized positions after mucho education - and they are working at Borders in the meantime to make an income and not be unemployed. Since they haven't started their "real life", they stay with their parents until the new job appears somewhere. To commit to an apartment might mean you planned to stay in Cleveland working at Borders....but if you are living at home, you may be moving to Atlanta next week for a more specialized and desirable position.

[Bittersweet]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

Ditto to everything Angie said.

When I graduated from college a few of my friends moved home to save money. Others made the move after a short venture on their own because they couldn’t maintain the lifestyle the wanted on a new grad salary. So many (including my sister) seemed to expect the standard of living that their parents currently have – forgetting of course the years it took to attain – and were disappointed (or incurred mega credit card debt) when they realized they would have to scrimp for awhile.

Also, a college education isn’t the guarantee of solid employment that it once was. You wouldn’t believe the number of classmates I have in law school who are there because their art or history undergrad degree didn’t offer much in terms of gainful employment.

With all that said, if I thought I could stand it and were single, I may consider moving back home after graduation to live rent free and completely pay back my student loans.

[Deebs]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

When I graduated (in 2000), I made the least money of any of my recent-grad friends, at about $30,000. Most of my friends were making in the $50k's and $60k's. None of us could afford to live in a decent area of Chicago without having a bunch of roommates, and we all had the goal of owning property, so we moved home with our parents. On the upside, when you work 50-60 hours a week, you don't spend much time wherever you live, other than sleeping, so it really didn't matter.

[DCJenn]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I think a large part of this stems from the fact that this is the same generation of kids who weren't allowed to fail at anything. These were the kids who were rarely disciplined, whose parents are their friends, who have no idea of the concept of 'work your way through college'. It's also a socio-econmic factor. In the hispanic culture, you don't leave home until you're married and if you go off to college, you come back home to live unless you've found a job elsewhere or are getting married.

My neighbors across the street have all three of their adult (under 30) children living with them. My former secretary has had all three of her kids and their families take turns living with her since they all graduated from high school.

and, to the Gen Y defense, it's a lot more expensive to live alone than with groups of people so a lot of them end up re-living the college roomie experience.

Jenn

[HouseofWool]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I agree that not allowing kids to fail ultimately fails them. Our stint with my parents was a very short period while we found a place to live and I found a job. I don't feel like I "moved" back home, but rather we had an extended stay with them.

What's most interesting about this to me is that in a country like Brazil, the norm is for kids to live with their parents until they marry due to the high cost of living. I was completely baffled by this until I understood that the cost of safe housing is disproportionately high.

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I graduated from college in 2003 and luckily was hired at my internship so I had a job. It was at a residential treatment center for kids, if you know about that it is bad pay ($10 an hour), under staffed, over worked. I left in November and got a job back in the city where I grew up.

With a social work degree, college debt and rent prices, I would never be able to afford to live in my own place and save anything, MAYBE make ends meet. I lived at home that year I was engaged and dh was in his own place.

If you don't make a lot of money, rent is high, living at home for a short time is a great way to save some money and get yourself out on a better note.

What's the point of wasting money on rent when you could delay it a year and be in a better place?

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I think a lot of it has to do with what Angie brought up. The Pottery Barn lifestyle isn't available on first jobs, and I lot of these kids have had everything handed to them. Turn 16? Here's your car! Designer clothes? Sure! Every techie gadget known to man? Of course dear.

I wasn't allowed to get my driver's license until I could pay for my own insurance, and I didn't have my own car until I was 18 and I bought it myself. I got my first job at 15, and I worked for the things I had. I didn't go to college - in large part because my mom couldn't help me, my dad wouldn't help me, and I didn't want to go into debt for it when I had no particular career goal. I kept telling myself that I would go to school when I knew what I wanted to do, but in the meantime I worked myself into a better paying job than all but 1 of my college grad friends had. I paid my mom rent from the time I graduated high school until I moved out of my mom's house when I was 21 (she was hoping it would force me to go to college).

I think another factor about why parents allow it is that they don't want their kids to move away. Families used to (for the most part) stay in the same area. Now everyone is so far flung - I could see figuring :huh: at least I see them this way.

[HouseofWool]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I dunno. I think having your grown children move back home ultimately communicates that you don't believe they can make it. It confirms their fears about not being able to hack it in the big world. I would gently say it's time to fly little bird. I know it's going to be difficult and frightening, but I KNOW that you can do it. I KNOW that you don't need me to carry you on my shoulders anymore. You father and I very proud of you...and we've changed the locks. :>

I think it really depends on the reason for the return. I don't think it was wrong or out of line in my case. We all knew it was a temporary arrangement. We simply had a very hard time looking for an apartment and a new job from 1000 miles away and this was the best we could come up with. Living in NYC decimated our savings in a way that med school has not. We couldn't afford to fly back and forth.

[spotty_dog]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

KIDS THESE DAYS. Everything on a silver platter, never worked a day in their life, SO UNDISCIPLINED, back when *I* was a kid you'd NEVER see such a thing...

Whatever. I graduated college and took a job at $9 an hour with no benefits. I lived with my boyfriend who was making something like $11 an hour and we lived in sheer unmarried bliss. It was awesome. (My parents, by the way, sneakily sent cash gifts here and there and I think this was actually a decent chunk all told. But we felt independent.)

My little brother decided not to continue with college after the first year. (I mean, he went to school in North Dakota, can you blame him?!) I think he lived at home for a few more years after that, taking classes toward an Associate's degree and working. My parents put the contingency on him that he could only stay as long as he was attending school regularly. And they generally treated him as an adult sharing their living space, not a dependent; he had his own expenses to cover, and also had the freedom to live his own life to the extent it didn't affect the others in the house. I am pretty sure the house rule against opposite sex friends under age 18 after midnight persisted.

When he was ready and had a good job he moved out and lived the bachelor life with a roommate. Before long he bought his own condo. He's doing pretty well for himself now at 24, and has a simply fabulous relationship with my parents.

I should be so lucky with my own kids.

Re: College graduation and earning a living

I think there are shades to this situation of what would be acceptable to me as a parent. Living at home for a summer between college graduation and the start of grad school (with proof of acceptance )? That would probably be ok. Same with have a temporary spot to land for a few months between expected job or school engagements. Like anything with parenting, I'm sure this all works out a whole lot better with some ground rules, expectations, and boundaries. But what do you do if it doesn't work out? It is hard to kick you adult kid out.

I wonder what my parents would have done if I had asked to move home. I had no desire to at all so it is a little hard to imagine. My hunch is it would be limited -- either by their request or my desire. On the other hand, my brother lived at home for several chunks of time and some of those worked better than others. At the time, it didn't seem to be to his benefit however it gave him some time to get his **** together in a way he might not have otherwise (he's kind of immature). I don't know. :huh: After college he definitely wore out his welcome.

[MDPhDWife]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

My childhood wasn't typical but I'll tell my story anyway. I got my first job when I was 14 (w/ a worker's permit) not because I had to but because I was craving independence and having my own money gave me a sense of that. My parents saw how hard I was working and bought me a 1 year old car for my 15th birthday. I was responsible for my own car insurance which I continued to work for. Just after turning 17, my dad got diagnosed with Leukemia and I moved out. My relationship with my mother was terrible and it was no longer a livable situation. I found a tiny apartment for $330 a month and continued to attend HS and work full time to pay my own way. I swore to myself I would never move back home. Mostly a pride thing.

During my senior year when it came time to apply to colleges, my mother refused to provide her tax forms (she thought she could use them as leverage) so I couldn't apply for any sort of financial aide although I could prove I had been supporting myself. I wish I had gotten emancipated. I went through my first year of college and dropped out when I realized how quickly I could work my way up the corporate ladder. I ended up making more than most college grads. I did well enough that I bought my first house when I was 18. I was shocked that the banks were willing to loan me $100K for a house at 18. I had been building credit since I was 16. Lied on a Macy's application and the rest is history.

Not sure what my mom would've done either if I actually did want to go back home. My sister and I left ASAP and never went back.

Re: College graduation and earning a living

Wow Charlene. That's impressive.

That just proves there is more than one way to do everything. I wish I'd gotten myself together to go to college, and one day I might do it still. But I (like you) found working my way up the corporate ladder to be more lucrative. Now, however, if I had to go back into the work force, I'd be screwed.

[GrayMatterWife]

Re: College graduation and earning a living

There was a huge article in the NYTimes about this phenomenon a while back.

I remember that article. I think a lot of it may be a natural bi-product of "helicopter" parenting...those parents that "do" too much for their kids (fill out college applications, etc.). Why leave the nest when Mom and Dad will prop up your life...and where would the self-confidence come from to do it, anyway? You've never been a stand-alone success because your parents always protected you from the learning process involved with failure--echoing what DCJenn and HouseofWool wrote in earlier posts in this thread.

My parents are in the minority, I think. They co-signed for my college loan (which covered ONLY tution and housing at a dorm--no "living expenses" like clothes, entertainment, etc.), dropped me off at school, and told me good luck. I never once, ever, called home for money because it never occurred to me that it was an option. I worked at least 30 hours a week the entire way through undergrad, often more. It's called...a job. I never moved home during the summers, not because I could not have, I guess, but it was too expensive (I was in school in Texas; they lived in Pennsylvania). I went to school each summer part-time and worked.

They didn't pay for college, and they didn't pay for law school. They rooted for me the whole way and are proud of me, but they gave me the opportunity to truly own my accomplishment--both academically and financially. Maybe it wouldn't work for everyone, but it was a truly character-building process for me, I think. I know I can stand on my own. (I cannot tell you the number of friends I have whose parents paid for their grad school. And their house downpayments. Or subsidize their living expenses. GROWN CHILDREN with kids of their own are still living off the parental dole. Geez!)

It has also helped in my adult relationship with my parents. I am very respectful of their thoughts and feelings on issues, but I do not compulsively need their input or approval. I bought our cars on my own, our house on my own, chose to go to law school without consulting them, etc. We have a strong relationship as adults, not as parents with a perpetually infantilized grown child. I have a lot of friends who struggle with this. But, then, if Mom and Dad are paying your house payments, I guess it is a lot harder to politely tell them that when you choose to have children is none of their business. Your decisions are made in the shadow of their subsidy.

If, however, I hadn't gotten married right after undergrad, but stayed single and went to law school near my folks' home, I don't think they would've said," No, you can't live here." Nothing like that. I think they probably would have welcomed me, but with a lot of understandings: I hwould have had to pay rent or otherwise assist with household overhead, etc. And, frankly, I would've wanted to. As an adult.