High COL Cities

[SuzySunshine]

It also did not affect where we applied other then LA. Neither of us wanted to live there and their program was fine but not great. When it came to scheduling interviews and we had conflicts he was more likely to turn down a high COL interview then a more reasonable one. However it can be done, we have several friends that did residency in Boston with kids. I have one friend who is there for a fellowship now with 5 kids and only the residents' income.

[madeintaiwan]

Thanks for the reply. Can you give me an example of some of the different perks we may find in larger more expensive cities compared to a mid size midwestern city?

Living somewhere culturally diverse is HUGE to us. Being a latin family, I really don't want our children to be the only "brown kids" at school or be someplace that is still very segregated.

That right there, is your answer. Cultural diversity is HUGE for me too. We obviously didn't get that with residency [or medical school]. But my mother raised me to make the best of whatever situation you're in.

But, you're not going to get cultural diversity in the Midwest period, especially if you're looking for the cultural diversity you get in places like CA, Boston, and NY. My kids are always one of the few if not the only "brown" kid. And they're half white! At Jasen's school, there are only 6 "brown" kids in his entire grade and they split them up, 2 to each class so that they at least have another. I was pretty impressed that they even did this. They have done this since 1st grade. Sometimes they switch which 2 are together. For me, it's like being in a time warp. I grew up in CA as one of the "onlies" back in the 80s. I was constantly teased for being different. Here it's 2010 and my kids are still the "onlies." While back in CA where my brothers attend school, out of a class of over 30 students there were only 6 non "brown" kids.

And I will tell you and anyone who asks that the reason why I hated STL is because it is one of the most racially segregated cities in our country. We could not go out as a family without getting dirty looks, stares, comments. From both whites and blacks alike. This persisted for the entire four years that we lived there. Never getting any better. It's just the way it is. And the poverty in the city is beyond depressing. Which is too bad, because the city is where all the "cool" stuff in STL is located. My cousin [who's a tour manager and travels all over the country and world] always comments that STL could be way more dope, but it isn't because it's crazy segregated.

[Thirteen]

In LA, most people supplement income with private loans, or moonlighting later in residency. Unless you have a studio apt (and even then, rent can be over half your monthly income), a resident's salary is not enough to survive. To avoid more debt, we live with his family in their house, and will continue to do so until the end of residency.

Benefits: LA is a huge melting pot of cultures and interests.

[ides]

We didn't consider cost of living when we applied to residency. We knew we would both be working and without a child in tow it seemed manageable. Now that we have a child & I stay home to care for him things have changed. You definitely need two incomes in nyc. A resident’s income is not enough. We are scrapping by and drowning in debt at this point. Our rent is over half of dh's take home pay and we've got a pretty good deal on a one bedroom too. The commute is also something to really consider. Thankfully we live within walking distance to dh's hospital so that cuts down on travel time and expense. We considered moving out further into a burrow however with the expense of moving, realtors fees and adding commute cost and time we really wouldn't be any better off and we would probably see dh less than we do now, which is pretty non-existant as it is. Another thing to consider about nyc is the schools. Terrible terrible terrible, unless you are rich. The great things about the city are it's diversity and wealth of cultural stuff to do. It's an extremely stimulating place for a kid with all the trucks, people, music, food, parks, etc. It's always bustling. I will miss it some when we leave next year, but I won't miss the expense, crowds, and lack of space.

[Tenacious_D]

Thanks for the reply. Can you give me an example of some of the different perks we may find in larger more expensive cities compared to a mid size midwestern city?

Boston is one of the programs that is sticking out to us so I'd love to pick your brain some more about it. Are you living in the suburbs or in the metro area? What suburbs are closer to Tufts and BU?

Living somewhere culturally diverse is HUGE to us. Being a latin family, I really don't want our children to be the only "brown kids" at school or be someplace that is still very segregated. For example, I always thought AZ would be high on our list because it's close to home, we enjoy the climate, and COL is reasonable, but with the racial tensions that are happening there now we're definitely having second guesses about it.

We are living in the city of Boston but it is a suburban area...similar to Brookline but slightly less expensive. You can live off of certain train lines that have nice neighborhoods and still get to BU and Tufts...same goes for the Longwood Medical area (brigham, BI etc.) Everything is relative so I am not sure what expensive is to everyone...but if you want to rent a single family home in the Boston area and want 3+ bedrooms you will likely pay minimum $2200 per month not including utilities.

As for keeping our kid(s) in a cultural location, that is really important to me. My nephews who are also bi-racial grew up in a coal town area in PA. They have some issues about race and who they are and what they think about themselves and as much as we try to talk to them about cultural diversity their friends and even teachers say some really ass backwards things about african americans because they are the only ones that live in the town.


I also want to say that all of the finances will depend on if you are a one or two income family. When we were in NYC, I brought home a pretty nice check and it made it possible for us to enjoy the NYC lifestyle while DH was in Med school (and no kids) but once we had kids and I stopped working, things were very different. I also chose to work part time when we moved to Boston to supplement income until DH could start moonlighting. I will be a SAHM for at least a year or two and we know it will be tight financially but we love having the options that a larger city has to offer....restaurants are important for us, shows, easy access to aiports for all sorts of flights, family on the east coast.

I am rambling and E is crying so I'll stop here and add anything else I can think of later. Please feel free to ask other questions though.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

We are living in the city of Boston but it is a suburban area...similar to Brookline but slightly less expensive. You can live off of certain train lines that have nice neighborhoods and still get to BU and Tufts...same goes for the Longwood Medical area (brigham, BI etc.) Everything is relative so I am not sure what expensive is to everyone...but if you want to rent a single family home in the Boston area and want 3+ bedrooms you will likely pay minimum $2200 per month not including utilities.

As for keeping our kid(s) in a cultural location, that is really important to me. My nephews who are also bi-racial grew up in a coal town area in PA. They have some issues about race and who they are and what they think about themselves and as much as we try to talk to them about cultural diversity their friends and even teachers say some really ass backwards things about african americans because they are the only ones that live in the town.


I also want to say that all of the finances will depend on if you are a one or two income family. When we were in NYC, I brought home a pretty nice check and it made it possible for us to enjoy the NYC lifestyle while DH was in Med school (and no kids) but once we had kids and I stopped working, things were very different. I also chose to work part time when we moved to Boston to supplement income until DH could start moonlighting. I will be a SAHM for at least a year or two and we know it will be tight financially but we love having the options that a larger city has to offer....restaurants are important for us, shows, easy access to aiports for all sorts of flights, family on the east coast.

I am rambling and E is crying so I'll stop here and add anything else I can think of later. Please feel free to ask other questions though.

I'll add to this having just left Boston after 5 years. I would call certain areas of Boston diverse and other areas less so. There are still a lot of neighborhoods which are not particularly diverse. There are certain areas in the city associated with various racial and ethnic groups and these are gentrifying but in these areas [on average] the schools are not as good and they are not considered as safe. In these areas, public school may not be an option and in areas where there are great public schools, the kids may be the few "brown" kids as you said.

Boston still buses kids from the cities out to wealthier towns like Wellesley and Newton but that's a whole can of worms in and of itself - the kids get a better educaion [again, on average] but it's harder for play-dates, etc if you live 30 minutes away from all your friends. Plus, there are always going to be the terrible folks who don't want bussed kids in their towns - there are actually towns that don't take state money to avoid getting bussed kids. Obviously private school is also an [expensive] option.

When we're weighing our options, we are looking for places where we could live affordably within 20 minutes of the hospital and we didn't feel like we could do that in Boston. Clearly this is based on our definition of affordable, where we want to send kids to school, etc.

Still, it's a great city with a lot to offer. Obviously it's a great sports town, the science center and aquarium are both good, there are a ton of really well educated people, there's pretty good public transportation and it goes without saying that the hospitals are great. We just wanted to start paying off loans in residency and weren't positive we could acheive that in Boston.

[Tenacious_D]

Tis true....Boston still has some major racial issues to get over and the METCO bussing system can be positive for some and not others. I work in a school system that still accepts Boston METCO kids and for the most part, the town, students and parents all seem to benefit and love it. If I choose to go back to teaching in that system, I can bring my children there for free...which is like a private school anyway.

Living in places like Newton and Brookline allow for great school system and close enough to the city to get to some of the hospitals and you don't have to worry about the absurd Boston Lottery System for schools. If you are at MGH, Arlington is a great area to live. I think one other thing to consider is any city that has a great university. I find that the closer you are to major universities the more likely you are to engage with different people and it ususally attracts folks who might otherwise not move to a particular city or state.

[MarissaNicole]

Cost of living was ONE of several things we considered when applying. NSG is small and honestly we sat down with the list of 99 programs and crossed of the states that we would in no way want to live in. I am an outgoing but simply plain person, and I could not see myself on the East Coast - so we barely applied there. And from what we knew of the expense of the West Coast we applied to very few programs out there.

Although I am JUST starting residency I cannot stress enough to factor in more than JUST reputation on a program. We were sooo soooo lucky in that we were able to "go home" for residency, and honestly I don't know how I would handle these hours if I was thousands of miles away from my family and friends. No we aren't at one of the best programs in the country, but I feel that I have a better head on my shoulders to better support DH because we are close to home.

We aren't in a cheap place to live, but we aren't in an expensive place either.

Our #5 was Peoria, Illinois - most people wouldn't necessarily want to live there, but we would have been VERY financially comfortable there, and we loved the faculty.

For us we considered the following factors, all with different weights: Program reputation; Location; Cost of Living; Ease of traveling to and from; How DH got along with the faculty/residents; work hours and climate. All of these factored into our rank list.

I think if you want to stay at home with your kids its hard NOT to consider cost of living.

[scarlett09]

I would agree with some of the previous posts that NYC, especially its NJ suburbs, are expensive. We lived in a small 1-bedroom apartment in the suburbs for $1050/month. The cost of a decent house in those suburbs approaches $500K, and with the skyrocketing property taxes, the cost of owning a home is even higher than the purchase price of the house. We really love this area since we spent 8 years there (4 for undergrad, 4 for med school), but we know that living there after residency is not an option. That being said, there are some really nice, diverse communities with good schools that you can hop on the train and be in NYC in 30 minutes. In my dream world, where money grows on trees, we would live in one of these communities.

I just wanted to add a point that not everywhere on the East Coast is expensive. The COL in some of the areas around Philadelphia is actually pretty good. We live in a suburb of Philadelphia (about 30 minutes away) and what we paid for a 1-bedroom in the NJ suburbs of NYC gets us a 2-bedroom, 2.5 bath townhouse with garage here. Granted, it is a drive into Philly from here, but DH is really based out of the kiddo hospital that is about 15 minutes away and only goes into Philly 2 months/year. Some of the NJ suburbs that are close to Philly have a pretty decent COL and, if my memory serves me correctly, the property taxes aren't as bad there and the schools are good. Public transportation kind of sucks (although I am hopeful about a new PATCO line they are supposed to be building), but there is some diversity in these areas.

[DCJenn]

Pittsburgh is another culturally diverse low COL area with a ton to do. In fact, if we ever go in to civilian medicine, Pittsburgh is #3 for both of us. (San Antonio is #1 and DC is #2).

Now, San Antonio is a great city. We live downtown and love it- and there are plenty of options in communities- new, old, boonies, mansions and cottages. COL is cheap but property taxes are STUPIDLY high. Since we don't have income tax, they pay for the school systems through the property tax system. It is not however, culturally diverse- there are white people and hispanic people and 99% of the hispanic population is Mexican- either culturally Mexican or from Mexico. For example, if you want Ethiopian food (which I do, I've been craving it for weeks now) you have to go to Austin. (another fun town, more expensive then SA but a little more diverse, too)

Jenn

[v-girl]

Jenn- Come up to Dallas! I'll go eat Ethiopian food with you!

Dallas is culturally diverse -- even the suburbs -- with a reasonable COL. Heck, when my kids went to Catholic school, even that was culturally diverse! We love it here!

We lived in a high COL city for my DH's residency (we've been finished with residency for 5 years now). Although it was just the two of us, we did pretty well, and managed to save some money too. We lived in a one-bedroom apartment during DH's residency right in the downtown of a high COL city, and we ate out all the time. I had an income too, but it was less than DH's residency salary.

[Vishenka69]

We lived in NYC (3 different boroughs) for med school and residency. Since we both grew up in NYC, living in a small apt was the norm, as was taking public transportation everywhere. If you're considering NY or any surrounding area and have any questions, let me know.

[Sheherezade]

I think Vishenka's post brings up a key point -- and it dovetails with my own thoughts on this subject. It is important to remember that not everyone has the same needs for housing, food, entertainment etc. Cities can be very expensive if you are expecting a lot of sq. footage. Also if you are not flexible about your living arrangements, you may be pressed by the high COL.

We have lived in NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Brookline (Boston) and now a suburb of Cleveland. Our COL is highest here because our standards have gone way up. Until we move here, we never lived in a space over 1100 sq ft (even with kids) and we didn't own a car. Entertainment was whatever was free. In NYC, we had a roommate - even though we were married. That's just the way it was and we were happy with it. We always had friends that were living the same life so "keeping up with the Joneses" didn't come in to play. So, there are ways to make it work. If you are hoping to have a 2 BD private home or even to own property vs. renting, you may not be suited to living in one of these areas. You can make it work, though - even as a SAHP with a resident husband and school age kids.

[NYCHoosier]

I'm actually not finding the COL to be that much less in Columbus than it was in NY... our apartment is just a LOT bigger. That's it. Food costs are roughly the same, a little more. The rent is far less per square foot, but we'd just live someplace smaller in NY. The transportation costs are much more here b/c cars (repairs, gas) are far more expensive than public transportation. Taxes are a little higher, but salaries were much higher in NY.

Boston and Chicago can be done without a car... not sure if they can be done without a car if you have kids. I'm under the impression that any place in California requires a car, though.

I guess when looking at COL, you have to consider what type of life you would expect to live in the different cities. If we had stayed in NYC, we would be living in a place 1/3 of the size, same budget, no cars, 25% more gross income. So, I guess you have to balance a bunch of things out when figuring out if you'd like to be there, what your priorities are.

Sorry for rambling...