Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

[bokelley]

Well DH is not in residency yet, but I can remember one time he was so sick, he couldn't drive to the medical school (45 min away) So I had to skip class, drive 45 min, wait for him to take his test, then attend a lecture, then drive back.... So I really can't ever see him calling in, unless he gets like the plague or something.

But I can't imagine how hard it is for a working family to have to deal with these situations. These are the things that worry me at night, when we talk about starting a family.

[peggyfromwastate]

For residency I think there should be a system like Vishenka's--- that if you call in sick, know that you're putting everyone out, and you will work a Saturday call for them.

No one wants an extra Saturday call...

In this issue, we're talking about a mom calling in sick b/c of her sick kiddos- right? This is not the same thing as the Dr being sick themselves... This is an issue of someone's lack of planning to take care of her children... Basically expecting her co-workers to be her back-up plan. Not ok.

[NYCHoosier]

In this issue, we're talking about a mom calling in sick b/c of her sick kiddos- right? This is not the same thing as the Dr being sick themselves... This is an issue of someone's lack of planning to take care of her children... Basically expecting her co-workers to be her back-up plan. Not ok.

Very true... my mom was a working mom. She was a librarian and the boss (meaning, relatively high flexibility, particularly compared to residents). Neither she nor my dad (a prosecuting attorney) took off when I was sick. They had my grandma, but when grandma's not an option, you hire someone. Or you coordinate with neighbors.

When women shrug their responsibilities at work for their children, that makes employers not want to hire mothers... or potential mothers.

There are family friendly high powered careers out there; my boss has one. She worked her butt off in the beginning and was thus able to create this of counsel position, where she continues to work hard but has flexible hours, fewer hours than her peers (~40/week) and is able to work from home when necessary.

If you want the balancing act, residency is not where you'll find it. It sucks, but you can't have everything the way you want it all of the time.

[Thirteen]

Very true... my mom was a working mom. She was a librarian and the boss (meaning, relatively high flexibility, particularly compared to residents). Neither she nor my dad (a prosecuting attorney) took off when I was sick.

When women shrug their responsibilities at work for their children, that makes employers not want to hire mothers... or potential mothers.

My mom: "If I have to get a sub for a half-day, and come get you to take you to the doctor, you better be on death's doorstep." My dad couldn't leave his job to come get me, ever -- and I too stayed home a lot when ill, or on a cot in my mom's classroom behind her desk if it was that severe.

Truer words could not have been said regarding hiring mothers or potential mothers, especially at this age. Sometimes, I get the feeling that my uterus's capabilities of possible reproduction are being assessed more than my resume. *sigh*

[PrincessFiona]

I guess I don't think it is that clear cut...that you can't take off period, that taking off for sick kids is wrong, or that you should ship your child off to the mostly non-existing sick children's daycare.

Just because something has become a culturally accepted norm...doesn't make it right.

I can view this from all ends of the spectrum because I have been both a sahm and a working mom. I remember being in grad school when Andrew, Amanda and Alex were little and having to show up for a microbiology test. Andrew came down with the stomach flu and was vomiting everywhere. I called the professor and explained the situation and his response to me was "either come and take the test or accept a zero". It wasn't my poor planning...schools don't like vomiting kids, back-up college student nannies don't want to get the stomach flu....and dh was a fellow and couldn't take off.

I brought my vomiting child to school and whipped through the test (only making a C+) while my sick child laid next to me. The other students were incredibly rude about it and my prof said "women with children should stay at home."

Working against that mentality is tough...even tougher when WE women throw it at each other.

When I taught, I also brought my kids to lab from time-to-time with a sore throat, etc...there IS no sick kid back-up here...and I'm not sure I would want to send my child to daycare with a bunch of other sick children.

What we are doing with these opinions is limiting women in what they can do if they choose to have children.

I'm not defending the actions of this one particular resident. I don't know the story in its entirety. I do know, however, that medicine is a vicious beast that wants to gobble up the last pieces of humanity left over in a doctor's soul. It is frowned upon in some programs to go home over the lunch hour, have your spouse meet you for dinner, bring your spouse with to events...there is literally pressure in medicine I feel to not have a family and put all of that aside.

I don't believe that the practice of medicine can't be taught in such a way as to make room for a few sick days. I don't believe that practicing medicine means you can't take sick days. My own husband has gone to work directly FROM the surgery center after having a procedure done...and rounded on patients. Dedicated? No. Stupid. He ended up with so much swelling as a result that he was miserable for 2 weeks. He went to work with such bad vertigo that he had to hold his hand against the wall to walk, was asked by a nurse if he was drunk, AND hit his head so hard against something that he had a huge knot and bruise. DUMB.

What if it wasn't Thomas sick, but Andrew...should he get the days off to help care for him? If he and I both worked, who should have to take off?

Like I said ... I am conflicted.

[houseelf]

I am conflicted.

Yes, I have watched this thread with much interest because I have bore the brunt of both sides of it (Hubby taking call for someone with childcare issue AND having to take very inconvenient sick time because I had no childcare back up). Residency doesn't exactly pay wages that afford the highest quality/availability of child care.

My oldest two have gone to school and/or childcare when they were clearly sick. Obviously, this pissed other parents and teachers off. I've also had them snuggle in a nest at my desk when I had no other options as well as try to cajole some nice friends to help out. I had to work to make ends meet and I was just as unhappy about the situation as were all of my coworkers. I felt like I sucked as a mom AND an employee.

I'm not defending this individual's choices, lack of planning, whatever. For all I know, she is both lazy and a poor planner. I do agree with Angie's assesment that it is very hard for certain high powered careers to accomodate parenting. This is just a sucky truth.

Conversely, I have been hell fired up when my DH has had to do more than his share to cover for someone else thereby depleting an already incredibly meager pool of daddy time from my kids.

I don't feel comfortable talking overly much about this issue publicly, but I do know that it is multifaceted. I feel compassion for all the individuals involved.

Kelly

I definently see both sides of the issue. I think if they can't afford childcare then the husband should split the duties of staying home with the child so all of doesn't affect her fellow residents only. Part of the reason I am staying home right now is because I knew dh's job would put mine on the back burner b/c his requires flexibility and I would always be the one who had to leave work to take care of my child's needs. I have also condsidered a career in medicine but I didn't want my daughter to grow up with both of her parent's at work all the time. It is a very unfair double standard, but unfortunatly the kids should not have to suffer for it.

My husband has called in sick a couple times when he was sick. He didn't want to go to work and spread his illness to patients with weakend immune systems, that would be unfair to the patient. Also it could spread to his other co-workers and I am sure they wouldn 't appreciate that either.

[Sheherezade]

Part of the reason I am staying home right now is because I knew dh's job would put mine on the back burner b/c his requires flexibility and I would always be the one who had to leave work to take care of my child's needs. I have also condsidered a career in medicine but I didn't want my daughter to grow up with both of her parent's at work all the time.

I'm with you on this. Once DH was in residency and clearly aligned with the Type-A, surgery, work-is-my-drug-of-choice set, I knew it would be me that answered our children's spontaneous and unexpected needs. Since my career path was also one of those "type -A, blah-blah-blah" situations, something had to give. It was me. I suppose you can hire a full time nanny to be the one at their beck and call if you have the money for it; I'm not sure I would want to hire someone else to be my child's "primary" care with me as secondary back-up so I can work consistently. Day care is not the same as a full time nanny.....mom and dad still handle the emergency calls, sick days, etc. Getting a full time nanny is like hiring a new family member.

[peggyfromwastate]

I don't believe that the practice of medicine can't be taught in such a way as to make room for a few sick days. I don't believe that practicing medicine means you can't take sick days. .

I have thought of this and for my husband and the way they run the clinic and the OR it would be a huge problem for any of the doctors to take a *sick day*. Sick days can't be planned, so if the Dr is not there, then probably the procedures wouldn't happen, and the patients would need to reschedule everything. I don't see how they could call in other people to cover the sick doctor, really.

I hate to say it, but I think that if a Dr-Dr couple wants to have kids, the only clearly responsible option is to hire a full time nanny. (unless they have awesome family help nearby, which isn't usually the case.)

I just can't get on board with the other residents covering call for someone to go home to tend her kids. I just can't go there, because I'm not that generous with my husband's time. I don't want to tell my kids that Dad's working extra, uncompensated, just to help out Dr so and so's children... Maybe there need to be more drop-in sick kid day care centers. But I would resent that situation no end.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

Peggy. I have been experiencing this resentment too. We have had several situations involving covering for someone else. Thomas got stuck admitting 2 patients that weren't his last year after clinic because the doc left early to pick up her kids. The result was that Thomas missed alex's choir concert.

There has to be fairness and this falls on the program director to speak with the resident, tell her the importance of getting a back-up plan and making sure she makes up the call.

The thing is though we have lived in countries with much less malignant training where men and women are allowed to be people, take vacation days, and even get sick.

And people do get sick or injured. It sucked that my OB broke her leg at the end of my pg with Zoe. I had to be shuffled to another doc and I have no doubt they were all working harder. If one of them needed time off I'm sure she would do the extra coverage though.

Again, this may not be the case with the resident being discussed.

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[SoonerTexan]

I'm with you on this. Once DH was in residency and clearly aligned with the Type-A, surgery, work-is-my-drug-of-choice set, I knew it would be me that answered our children's spontaneous and unexpected needs. Since my career path was also one of those "type -A, blah-blah-blah" situations, something had to give. It was me.

I'm not there yet, but something my future mother-in-law said really stuck with me and has influenced the career path I plan to take.

She told me about a time when she was just out of residency taking care of DF when he was 4-5 years old as a single mom, since future FIL was doing a fellowship 1000 miles away. At the end of one day, a patient who was a young mother and had recently survived a bout with cancer came in for some reason or another--I think it was either to run a test or find out the results. (I cant remember the specific medical details) At any rate, the test revealed that she had a condition that was pretty much guaranteed to be fatal. She said trying to tell this woman that she was going to die and comfort her, while panicking because the daycare was closing in a few minutes and no one else could pick up her son was the worst moment of her life. She ended up leaving medicine all together later on after only practicing 5-6 years because the stress of a growing family was just too much with two doctor parents.

[TulipsAndSunscreen]

I'm not there yet, but something my future mother-in-law said really stuck with me and has influenced the career path I plan to take.

She told me about a time when she was just out of residency taking care of DF when he was 4-5 years old as a single mom, since future FIL was doing a fellowship 1000 miles away. At the end of one day, a patient who was a young mother and had recently survived a bout with cancer came in for some reason or another--I think it was either to run a test or find out the results. (I cant remember the specific medical details) At any rate, the test revealed that she had a condition that was pretty much guaranteed to be fatal. She said trying to tell this woman that she was going to die and comfort her, while panicking because the daycare was closing in a few minutes and no one else could pick up her son was the worst moment of her life. She ended up leaving medicine all together later on after only practicing 5-6 years because the stress of a growing family was just too much with two doctor parents.

That is my worst fear. And that is why when we have kids, I know the right decision for me will likely be to step back and raise them. Every single day I struggle with this, as I know a lot of you do. I just ask WHY? Why does he get to follow his path to a fulfilling career AND be a father while I can't do both? I get so mad and frustrated but ultimately, I know that I'm the one who has to sacrifice or no one will. And a lot of it's my fault that when I define as a "fulfilling career for me personally" is mutually exclusive to having a spouse in a demanding job but it seems so unfair that he gets to do it all and I can't!

[SoonerTexan]

It's kind of a perplexing paradox, isn't it? Medicine provides you with the financial stability to easily provide for a family, but actually having and taking care of the family is so difficult!

Hmmm...maybe I should push DF to jump the med school ship and go to dental school... JK

This thread reminded me of what my Mom (very busy nurse-anesthetist) did when any of us were sick. Her practice group worked with a Catholic Hospital and on the very top floor was a sort of retirement convent for nuns who had been nurses. Their little rooms opened off of a big room and there were cots there that could be opened up and used for sick kids - I remember the old flannel blankets and just dozing there until my mom could bring me home. The nuns would fuss over us and let us rest or read books.

That was really lucky for all involved.

There is no easy answer for this but I feel bad when I have students say "I can't get sick, my parents can't miss work" and I know it is true. We try to keep them segregated at school and laying down on pillows as only about half of the parents will actually come and pick them up early.

[Sheherezade]

We try to keep them segregated at school and laying down on pillows as only about half of the parents will actually come and pick them up early.

I've been amazed that so many parents leave there sick kids at school when they are called to pick them up. I always feel so bad for the kids when I'm the volunteer in there. I suppose they can't leave work -- but it is sad for the kiddos.