Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

[MrsK]

a contradiction perhaps? I know several people who *push mops for a living* and their lives are not simple... Especially when they may get into credit card debt or have to worry extra about planning for retirement, etc.

Agreed. I guess my point was that if I was not a professional and if our spouses were not pursuing the professions that they are pursuing, we would not have the same responsibilities. I wouldn't be worried about my law firm collapsing around me or about losing my financial investment in the firm, preserving my career, paying my education debts, being available around the clock for clients that yell at me while they watch their investments dwindle, and all the while having people judging me or telling me how I should or should not spend all the money I'm supposedly making.

[Rapunzel]

I have read this thread with interest. The comments that I probably most agree with (based on my experience) are Heidi's. Of all the responses hers was the one I nodded to most.

I come from a blue-collar family. Many of you have read my explanations of just how poor dh and I were as children in our individual families. Heck, most of dh's extended family ARE "mop-pushers" (ie housecleaners), construction day laborers, etc. So, I think I can speak with some authority when it comes to the subject of comparing the lives of "them" vs. "us" - with "us" being people who are on an upwardly mobil trajectory with our incomes. And, I can definitely, DEFINITELY say that the "mop-pushers" have MUCH more complicated lives than people who are privileged or on their way to being privileged (which I believe all medical students and residents qualify as). And, I DO bristle when I read things like that.

I am one of those people who raised her children full time while my husband was in a residency in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country (the city of Boston). We did it by making a deal with the Air Force. But, we did it because we knew that what was best for our children was a full-time mother. THAT was our compromise. We weren't willing to compromise our children's childhoods. We WERE willing to compromise our own comfort in order to fulfill our primary rolls in life: Parents. And, I did say "we" on purpose - because dh also made compromises in that situation (by taking the AF funding). Even WITH that funding, however, we lived on about $50K a year with four (and then five) children in one of the most expensive urban areas in the U.S. We did it through blood, sweat, and tears. But, again, our children were worth it. And, darn it, if we were going to have kids we were going to do it right (neither of us are happy doing things half-a$$ed - excuse my French).

Regarding doctors coming into work sick: As the mother of several patients (one having been a neurosurgery patient several times) I am horrified that ANY physician or physician-in-training would knowingly go to work in a hospital amongst individuals whose health is already severely compromised. I know of a resident on dh's peds rotation during medical school who was vomiting between checking on the cardiac patients with him. She was treating primarily children recovering from heart surgery and apparently felt it was just fine to expose them to her illness. Not OK. Not good medicine. Now, dh DID go into work ill during residency. But, he had little (if any) patient contact as a rads resident. A position like that? I understand. But, to hear of surgery residents, em residents, and others with high-risk patient populations going to work with the flu, stomach-viruses, etc. is, well, sickening (pun intended).

Regarding mothers who choose demanding career paths WHILE being mothers: Such a choice can only hurt a child. Women who do that are definitely making a choice - and, in the end, that choice is going to impact their children's lives. I got to see from my own personal experience what my mother was like as a SAHM vs. what she had to do to be a working mother. And, the children she had while being a working mother DID have negatively affected childhoods. Now, those siblings of mine don't realize this - because a working mother is what they knew so how could they compare? But, as the daughter who saw it (and experienced it) both ways - I can compare. And, that experience drove home to me: raise my children or make money. (And, those of you who know me know that I give a flying flip if that offends anyone).

We live in a society where the lie has been sold that a woman can fulfill the roles of both loving, attentive mother AND driven, career-centered professional.

Regarding the situation in the original post by v-girl:
Should we have compassion for the children who had no control over their mother's pursuit of a demanding career? Yes. It is a balance in my mind between forgiving the parents' thoughtlessness because of the innocents involved (ie the children who had no say in the situation) vs. protecting your own family's interests. That is something we have encountered as well. The fair thing for your own family is for the parents to pay back those whose own families have been inconvenienced (or even harmed) by the situation. In medicine that means taking an extra call day or a weekend. And, a mother (or father) who doesn't like what that does to their own children needs to seriously reconsider their career goals and their impact on their ability to parent.

[Rapunzel]

Agreed. I guess my point was that if I was not a professional and if our spouses were not pursuing the professions that they are pursuing, we would not have the same responsibilities. I wouldn't be worried about my law firm collapsing around me or about losing my financial investment in the firm, preserving my career, paying my education debts, being available around the clock for clients that yell at me while they watch their investments dwindle, and all the while having people judging me or telling me how I should or should not spend all the money I'm supposedly making.

The woman who cleans my house currently is worrying about 1) how to heat her house (currently they have no heat in sub-freezing temps) and 2) how to afford teeth (she has none in her mouth).

Her reality is so incredibly removed from that reality described above that it is mind-boggling. SHE is a "mop-pusher".

i also hope to work towards making more "on-ramps" for women to re-enter careers after breaks to raise children. It is ridiculous you can't do that more easily given the number of women and mothers in this society and our ever-growing life span. Maybe that option will improve the lives of parents in the next generation who don't feel that an exit for 10 years will destroy their careers.

ita.

[Chrisada]

Ok, Heidi and Jenn said exactly what I have been thinking as I read through this thread. Just a few weeks ago my aunt lost it when someone asked if I planned to go back to work and my response was, "No my husband will be almost non-existent and my children deserve a steady parent around. I think that many women who work do so because they choose to, not because they have to." Big difference. I know a lot of people don't want to hear this, but I've seen women work work work outside of their home, drop their kids off at daycare all day, so that they can pay for their BMW, Mercedes, media room, and big house. Specifically, my sister. IMO she is choosing her high powered career over her children.

We are willing to live on medical school loans, drive an old ass BMW and Acura, shop less, etc. so that I can raise our young children. I know that we will have no problem living on a resident's salary, but I can also be cheap. I don't shop in the mall like I used to, but instead at Target and Wal-Mart for my clothes. I guess I'm just tired of some saying they "have" to work outside of the home, when you don't. I just say if you are going to put your kids in daycare in order to work for the nicer things then own up to it.

As for having a demanding job, I still remember deciding the week before I was to go to law school that I could not do it because of my future children. I will never forgot that phone call to my dad (a judge). But I have absolutely no regrets because I am the one who gets to see my children take their first steps etc. While watching a child I remember calling his mother and telling her her son took his first steps. BTW this is not directed at anyone specific on this board. Just my personal views. Different things work for different people.
But at the end of the day, you can't have it all.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

I agree with much of what has been said here (though I enjoy playing devil's advocate).

I am going to say one last thing that has been on my mind. Chrisada really kind of struck me with the comment about her sister selfishly choosing her career over kids.

Our spouses are equally as selfish and I say that with the full force of a mom of 5 who has been and is the primary caregiver to her children. No mom can ever make up fir the absence of the father. No father can make up for the absence of the mother. Children don't just know it when mom drops them off at daycare when they are sick.

They see that dad doesn't make it to birthday parties, baseball games or in time to tuck them in too. That absence can NOT be filled by the other parent.

There is nothing more heartbreaking as a mom than listening to your teenage son cry over the absence of his father in his life. There is nothing that can be said when your child says "dad was never there for me. He cares about being a doctor more than being a dad. "

We as moms are also choosing to have children in this situation. Perhaps physicians or other high powered professionals should not have children if they can't be around to coparent. Coparenting is not just for our benefit but the benefit of a child.

If your spouse is working 80 hours a week your kids will suffer even if you are home with them fulltime.

Hard to hear. I used to disagree. Now I see the effect.


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[Chrisada]

Well Kris, I guess I'm more of the old school. As in, mothers should raise their children and fathers should work to provide. There. I said it. My step-father, who raised me since I was two, was a physician and was gone a lot. But my mother was always there. I guess each family is different like I said earlier, and we never suffered from his absence. But my father also picked a family friendly specialty and I am pushing DH towards that also. As in I told him, no surgery, and he obliged. And now no gyn-onc. After talking to you lovely ladies!

As to my sister, she has a nine-month-old and is out of town a lot. My personal belief is that no nine-month-old should have his mother out of town traveling for work. So, I'm sticking with she is choosing her career over her baby. I also venture to say IMO that a baby needs his mother more than his father. I just think the bond between mother and child is one of a kind.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

Chrisada I agree that your sister is making what I personally consider to be a poor choice. I also stand by my opinion that children need the involvement of both parents and that our husbands and wives are selfishly choosing to put career first. It's afact, but it is what it is.

I certainly notice the effect more in my older boys who did not have the benefit of dad throwing the ball around with them, etc.

Providing for ones family is not the same as essentially being an absent parent.


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[Chrisada]

Kris, I completely agree with you that children should be raised by both of their parents. Absolutely 100%. My experience has been very different from yours when it comes to medicine. My father physician was at all my brother's hockey games and so on. So we never felt that dad chose medicine over our family, even during residency in the 80's. He also had his own practice so we spent time there as a family. So, he chose a life of medicine, but we always felt that we came first. I don't know, I always feel that our family is first with DH. Maybe that feeling will change next year and I'm just not jaded yet.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

I feel that since leaving training and becoming established dh has been able to focus more on the kids. He is much more involved now and I notice the difference in the relationships he has with our older kids vs the younger ones. It is truly night and day ....

But he has yet to make it to a bday party of Audan's(age 6)because of being called in to see a patient.

I also think medicine has changed a lot over the last 30 years. There are more admissions and quicker discharges, docs are pressured to see more patients and payment is going down.

My dh is a specialist so as if Jan 1 he has to abide by the Medicare cuts via losing the ability to bill for consults. So workload is increasing and salaries are going down....


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[MrsK]

Okay, I'm not explaining myself well. My point is that none of us should be saying how anyone should spend their money or what commitments should be important to others. I've pushed a mop and I've had the professional job. It's just exchanging one set of problems for another. Personally, I had a lot less worries and much fewer responsiblities when I was pushing a mop. I was allowed to take sick days then and the world wouldn't fall apart.

[Chrisada]

Kris, I totally get where you are coming from. There are double standards for men and women. Men choose their careers over family all the time and no one thinks twice about it. I'm sure I might have feelings of DH choosing medicine over us once residency starts in a few months. I think residency will be the most difficult part of this road we chose, but I'm glad to hear that your DH does have more time with the kids now.

[PrincessFiona]

Re: Need to vent - resident keeps calling in sick

I hope all goes smoothly for you guys chrisada ... and know we always have your back.


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[medpedspouse]

I think "Old School" is both parents being a part of their children's lives. When did it become just one parent? Why have children (planned) knowing that you are going to raise them as a single parent?

[Chrisada]

I think "Old School" is both parents being a part of their children's lives. When did it become just one parent? Why have children (planned) knowing that you are going to raise them as a single parent?

Um yeah, if you read all of my posts then you will see I think the father should provide and also be a part of their children's life. That's what I meant my "old school." Sorry if that wasn't clear to you.